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The Atlantic:The Organic Battery From Japan That Could Spawn The Next Tesla

Discussion in 'Battery Discussion' started by RobStark, May 13, 2014.

  1. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    A startup says its new battery will make cheap, 300-mile-range electric cars as common as Corollas.
    Todd Woody May 13 2014

    Dou Kani, the chief executive of Power Japan Plus, pushes what looks to be a standard lithium-ion battery across a conference table, the type of battery that powers everything from $30 flashlights to $90,000 electric cars.

    Except the silver cylinder contains no lithium. Nor any expensive rare earth metals. It won’t catch fire if punctured. And unlike lithium ion batteries, it can be charged and discharged thousands of times without losing its energy capacity, its creator claims. Oh, and Power Japan Plus’ battery also generates more power than a lithium battery and can charge 20 times as fast.

    Translation: Cheaper long-range electric cars that can travel hundreds of miles on a charge and be juiced up in minutes rather than hours.
    The only electric vehicle currently on the market that can go close to 300 miles on a charge is Tesla Motors’s Model S, which sports a massive and expensive lithium-ion battery pack. You can be excused for thinking this seems too good to be true.



    http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/05/the-organic-carbon-battery-from-japan-that-could-spawn-the-next-tesla/362112/
     
  2. Jaff

    Jaff Active Member

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    Shhh...don't tell Toyota...
     
  3. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    So the perfect battery and it's cheap too:). Would be great if this is true.
     
  4. ThosEM

    ThosEM Space Weatherman

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    It will be nice when folks touting new battery technologies can show that they work in, say, laptop computers, and appear to be scalable.
     
  5. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    This is great news! All they need to do is bring down the cost and scale up manufacturing!
     
  6. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

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    #6 Canuck, May 13, 2014
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
    "Japan Plus modifies the structure of the cotton’s carbon fiber to “create unique properties not seen in other carbon fiber ever developed.” The result – what the company calls a Carbon Complex– form the anode and cathode of its Ryden dual carbon battery, with an organic electrolyte as the conducting fluid. (Ryden is the English translation of the Japanese characters that mean god of lightning.)"

    Whenever I see a company making up terms, here it's "Carbon Complex"; or using outlandish analogies, here it's "Ryden" - "god of lightening", but releasing practically no useful information as to how it works, I take the "I'll believe it when I see it" approach. There's no doubt battery technology is moving forward at a very fast rate, despite comparatively little funding, but I'd be surprised if this amounts to anything useful.

    - - - Updated - - -

    What?, you're not happy with all the nice new words they have made up to describe their technology and you want to see it actually work? Sheesh you're hard to please! I doubt they'll let you invest! ;)
     
  7. BlueTan85

    BlueTan85 Member

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    #7 BlueTan85, May 13, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2016
    Here's the company's own english-language promo video:



    From that video, which says there is NO lithium in the battery, there is this image, which shows Li+ (lithium ions). Doesn't that mean there IS lithium in the battery?

    000pjp.jpg
     
  8. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Noticed that about the Li+ as well. Slick video the as the Atlantic article pointed out, they are EEstor until proven otherwise.
     
  9. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

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    It's very slick. Watch it at 3:25 and notice the words are "Eventually, the dual carbon battery will be made entirely of organic carbon." This is both spoken, and written at the bottom of the screen, at 3:25. This qualifies all previous statements. So it does use lithium but "Eventually" it won't, whatever that means. Very, very, slick.

    Well, at least the carbon is "organic". Don't want those pesticides in my battery!
     
  10. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    I thought the part that eventually becomes carbon is the exterior cylinder? Carbon Complex?

    They say carbon is the only "active material."

    Furthermore they say they don't use "lithium oxide."

    But do use lithium ions?

    Any who I was expecting jokes like....

    When can you tell a battery scientist is lying?........When his lips are moving :smile:


    99% chance this is bovine feces but maybe......
     
  11. hiroshiy

    hiroshiy Active Member

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    Very strange. This company does not show up in Japanese press, and they have no Japanese language website. Be warned...
     
  12. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    take a number. over the last year I've seen may claims about advancements in this area and it's certainly not the first startup to say they have a carbon based battery that beats lithium ion based batteries. but i'll believe it when I see it b/c so far all the other ones have been duds. I've heard nothing since their initial announcements either.

    on a positive note, once one of these companies actually delivers a viable production grade battery, well then that's a totally different story. so i'll wait until then before I get any excitement over these.
     
  13. ZsoZso

    ZsoZso Member

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    #13 ZsoZso, May 14, 2014
    Last edited: May 15, 2014
    The video says it has no Lithium-oxide and show Li+ ions as cathion and an unnamed anion (depicted as A-), the carbon part is the electrode (both of them) are supposed to be made from carbon nanotubes. It is a slick marketing campaign that hides all technical details. So it could easily be a big scam. Time will tell, eventually they need to allow third party testing of the claims of performance, then we will see...
     
  14. Reykjavik

    Reykjavik Member

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    The way they stress that it is organic is a bit odd. And I find it hard to believe that it can be more energy dense and less dangerous. Batteries have to be reactive to work, so it would be quite odd if it weren't possible for them to react uncontrollably under certain conditions. They also haven't mentioned the price.

    Regardless of these worries, it is worth looking into this technology to see if it is an improvement. If it is, great, we'll get better devices. If not, that is ok too.
     
  15. Curt

    Curt Roadster Signature #55

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    Well, when they find a way to use inorganic carbon, I'll be very impressed! :wink:
     
  16. beegee

    beegee Member

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    If the claims for the dual carbon battery are true, then the Model S could easily gain another 15 miles of range since the battery can be fully discharged without penalty. This would also make the "Standard Charge" setting obsolete since there is no penalty for fully charging. I imaging that the way Supercharging happens could change in that the charge rate would not have to slow as the battery fills.
    The video did indicate the they would license the technology, so hopefully Panasonic and Tesla pick this up.:cool:
     
  17. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    If they say the carbon is Cage Free or farm raised then we know it's a scam.
     
  18. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    Sounds like BS. Anything that's storing that much potential energy is likely to catch on fire especially if directly shorted. The other possibility is it has very little output current, which would make it unsuitable for a Tesla.
     
  19. evme

    evme Member

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    This is how I understood it. Though I could be wrong.

    There is no lithium, they are just showing an example of how batteries work. In this case they showed how a lithium battery works.

    By organic carbon, I think they are referring to using carbon from say plants.(maybe genetically engineer a plant to grow it?) Though right now they are synthesizing the carbon.
     
  20. ZsoZso

    ZsoZso Member

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    I think you misunderstood it. The video did not say it has no Lithium. It said it does not use Lithium-oxide. Then it has showed the explanation figure with Li+ ion and "A-" ion moving to the 2 carbon electrodes. So it is still a Li+ ion based battery, but they replaced the electrodes not to use the usual Nickel and Cobalt and use carbon technology instead.
     

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