The Atlantic:The Organic Battery From Japan That Could Spawn The Next Tesla

[AWDtsla]

By organic carbon, I think they are referring to using carbon from say plants.(maybe genetically engineer a plant to grow it?) Though right now they are synthesizing the carbon.

J**** F*** what a failure of basic science education...

...and I'm reminded of how scams (like probably this is) live on. You might as well have said the moon is made of cheese.

 

[ggies07]

You might as well have said the moon is made of cheese.

"Would ya eat it? I know I would and then I'd polish it off with a tall budweiser."

If no one gets that SNL reference, here:

 

[Johan]

After a presentation like that I'd love to invest in this! Maybe it'll do better than my shares in A123 did

In the coming years as it becomes clear how big the battery technology industry can get the field will attract a lot of scammers.

 

[Nubo]

This is how I understood it. Though I could be wrong.

There is no lithium, they are just showing an example of how batteries work. In this case they showed how a lithium battery works.

By organic carbon, I think they are referring to using carbon from say plants.(maybe genetically engineer a plant to grow it?) Though right now they are synthesizing the carbon.

Their diagram is different than a conventional Li-ion battery, in which the Lithium ions migrate from the cathode to the anode, and no Anions are involved, as far as I understand it. In this new design it appears that anions and Lithium ions migrate from their respective electrodes and meet in the electrolyte.

 

[evme]

J**** F*** what a failure of basic science education...

...and I'm reminded of how scams (like probably this is) live on. You might as well have said the moon is made of cheese.

Let me clarify a bit since I think you misunderstood. they got this dual carbon battery my modifying cotton (synthetic). They might be able to genetic engineer cotton to grow naturally without modification (organic).

Now then, here is the real question. What kind of cheese is the moon made of?

 

[JRP3]

As one might guess the numbers don't seem to match their claims, which are vague anyway. When a company compares their cells to "lithium ion" that covers a broad range of chemistries and parameters, so it's basically saying nothing. It looks as if the energy density of their cell is in the middle of the range for existing li chemistry, so significantly less than what Tesla is currently using. Anyone here interested in less range for their cars? If a company doesn't prominently and proudly post their Wh/kg numbers they probably aren't that good.

 

[ZsoZso]

As one might guess the numbers don't seem to match their claims, which are vague anyway. When a company compares their cells to "lithium ion" that covers a broad range of chemistries and parameters, so it's basically saying nothing. It looks as if the energy density of their cell is in the middle of the range for existing li chemistry, so significantly less than what Tesla is currently using. Anyone here interested in less range for their cars? If a company doesn't prominently and proudly post their Wh/kg numbers they probably aren't that good.

If the rest of the claims were true (yet to be proven, I remain skeptical), it would still be worth swapping from ~265miles range to ~200miles range with the ability to supercharge in 3 minutes. That kind of fast recharge would be a major game changer IF it was true...

 

[JRP3]

Look at the size of the cable for the existing supercharger. Now imagine the size needed to charge a car in 3 minutes. I don't think less than 10 minute charge time will ever be practical, or necessary, especially as battery packs get larger. I'd rather have a 400 mile range pack that charges at today's rate than a 200 mile range pack that charges faster.

 

[uselesslogin]

So, one thing I didn't see mentioned on this thread is that the CTO, Kaname Takeya, worked on the NCA cathode used in the Model S. In any event if this is a real breakthrough Tesla should have no trouble using it.

 

[Alpha]

They also mentioned it doesn't heat up when discharging, so no elaborate battery cooling equipment would be needed. I hope this pans out, but I'm not holding my breath...

 

[Kitt]

someone who can read the description?
PJP also has an office in San Fransisco.


Someone who can read this also? Very bizarre.

http://psychotechnic.net/ the creator of the logo art.

 

[richkae]

Look at the size of the cable for the existing supercharger. Now imagine the size needed to charge a car in 3 minutes. I don't think less than 10 minute charge time will ever be practical, or necessary, especially as battery packs get larger. I'd rather have a 400 mile range pack that charges at today's rate than a 200 mile range pack that charges faster.

If a magic new battery technology existed that made the Model S pack 100 pounds instead of 1200 pounds - and much less volume, that might make possible an 85kWh car with 400 mile range just by reducing the wh/mile. Then charging with current supercharger power would also charge much faster ( in terms of miles of range added per unit time ).

 

[JRP3]

I don't think weight reduction would provide that much of an efficiency boost to long range highway driving, where aero is a greater factor. It would help some, more so in stop and go city driving, but range is usually less of an issue in that case.

 

[Jack6591]

Dual Carbon Battery from Power Japan Plus

Dual Carbon Batteries: Powerful, Safe, Reliable, and Cheap > ENGINEERING.com


Impressive video. Will this pan out?

 

[RobStark]

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...ry-From-Japan-That-Could-Spawn-The-Next-Tesla

 

[Jeredin]

Too exciting to ignore. Just as Tom said, third parties should test and verify the technology claims. Honestly, as exciting as this sounds for Tesla, it's far more reaching when you include other vehicles (planes, trains, bikes) and a very wide industry need. I hope Tesla looks into PSP.

 

[Jack6591]

Kaname Takeya is chief technology officer of Power Japan Plus. Dr. Takeya wields 27 years of Research and development experience in the areas of advanced materials for photo semiconductors, permanent magnets, multi layer ceramic capacitors, nickel-metal hydride batteries and lithium rechargeable batteries. Dr. Takeya previously served as manager of the advanced materials group at Sumitomo Metal Mining, where he developed the nickel cobalt aluminum cathode for lithium rechargeable batteries used in the Toyota Prius and Tesla Model S. He also contributed to the establishment of the Niihama Research Laboratories, the main research center of Sumitomo Metal Mining. Dr. Takeya then led battery development at start-ups including Quallion and EnerDel, designing high-power batteries capable of withstanding use in rigorous applications such as satellites and implantable medical applications. He most recently served as a special term appointee at Argonne National Laboratory, where he oversaw the establishment of the laboratory’s cathode manufacturing pilot line. Dr. Takeya graduated from Kyushu University with a master’s degree in engineering and holds a PH.D in engineering from Tohoku University in Japan.

 

[Canuck]

Kaname Takeya is chief technology officer of Power Japan Plus. Dr. Takeya wields 27 years of Research and development experience in the areas of advanced materials for photo semiconductors, permanent magnets, multi layer ceramic capacitors, nickel-metal hydride batteries and lithium rechargeable batteries. Dr. Takeya previously served as manager of the advanced materials group at Sumitomo Metal Mining, where he developed the nickel cobalt aluminum cathode for lithium rechargeable batteries used in the Toyota Prius and Tesla Model S. He also contributed to the establishment of the Niihama Research Laboratories, the main research center of Sumitomo Metal Mining. Dr. Takeya then led battery development at start-ups including Quallion and EnerDel, designing high-power batteries capable of withstanding use in rigorous applications such as satellites and implantable medical applications. He most recently served as a special term appointee at Argonne National Laboratory, where he oversaw the establishment of the laboratory’s cathode manufacturing pilot line. Dr. Takeya graduated from Kyushu University with a master’s degree in engineering and holds a PH.D in engineering from Tohoku University in Japan.

I'd rather have details on the workings of the supposed breakthrough in battery technology than the resumes. Money can buy a lot of things, including top resumes. I'm not saying that applies in this case, but at the thread in the link posted above, I set out my concernns with what appears to be nothing more than a slick advertising campaign for financing. I sure hope I'm proven wrong.

 

[richkae]

I don't think weight reduction would provide that much of an efficiency boost to long range highway driving, where aero is a greater factor. It would help some, more so in stop and go city driving, but range is usually less of an issue in that case.

My hypothetical 400 mile range car using an 85kWh battery would be have to also be a little smaller. The Model S is huge, you can make a very luxurious car a few inches shorter and several inches narrower. Having the battery pack be much less volume makes all shapes and sizes easier.

 

[stopcrazypp]

My hypothetical 400 mile range car using an 85kWh battery would be have to also be a little smaller. The Model S is huge, you can make a very luxurious car a few inches shorter and several inches narrower. Having the battery pack be much less volume makes all shapes and sizes easier.

The i3 (most efficient car in the USA) gets 81 miles EPA out of 18.8kWh (usable). If you scale that directly, you get 366 miles out of 85kWh usable, so I don't think 400 miles (EPA) is possible even with extensive weight saving and aero tweaks.