The catastrophe of FSD and erosion of trust in Tesla

[SilverString]

FSD has become a catastrophe, and a dangerous one at that. While most of us wait in the dark, Elon tweets about 10.12 being a game changer yet 90% of the beta fleet has not received 10.11 and remains two upgrades behind with zero indications of why this is... could it be that none of those problems, especially PB, are fixed in 10.11 or 10.11.1 ? Highly likely. I am on the verge of filing a NTSB complaint if Tesla does not come clean here, and I never thought I would see such a day. I have always patiently supported the product, but enough is enough, and the most recent Elon tweets have pushed me nearer the edge.

I could go on about the dangers and regressions we have seen with the beta, 10.10.2 in particular, but they are well documented in this forum and elsewhere. So if you are driving yourself nuts with safety scores thinking you want the beta, be advised that the reason it is not coming is that the existing releases are not just bad, they are catastrophically bad, and dangerous as hell.

In the midst of this, Elon tweets about possibly starting a new social media platform due to Twitter "echo chamber" mis-information, but how are his comments that ignore the obvious elephant in the room any different? The Emperor has no clothes.

I hope I am proven wrong in the weeks to come, but my trust is quickly eroding.

 

[whoosierdaddy]

idk the beta is pretty good for me lmao

 

[Kyrne]

Why is everyone here so dramatic? "Omg I'm SOO many releases behind" "The BETA sucks"

It's called a BETA for a reason. There are bugs. Full self driving is an incredibly hard thing to achieve and the fact that we are even this far is pretty crazy. If you don't like it, don't use it.

This beta isn't here to drive you from place to place without monitoring, it's to collect data so one day it can do that, it's what you signed up to do when you enrolled.

Sucks to see people who have the beta hating on it when I know there are tons of people who would love to be able to even try it.

Complain all you want but I urge you to show me another company that has non-geofenced FSD on consumer vehicles.

 

[SilverString]

Why is everyone here so dramatic? "Omg I'm SOO many releases behind" "The BETA sucks"

It's called a BETA for a reason. There are bugs. Full self driving is an incredibly hard thing to achieve and the fact that we are even this far is pretty crazy. If you don't like it, don't use it.

This beta isn't here to drive you from place to place without monitoring, it's to collect data so one day it can do that, it's what you signed up to do when you enrolled.

Sucks to see people who have the beta hating on it when I know there are tons of people who would love to be able to even try it.

Complain all you want but I urge you to show me another company that has non-geofenced FSD on consumer vehicles.

I've been driving the beta since 10/21 and always supported it - check my posts. It nearly killed me twice in the last few days and never before 10.10.2. If this is your idea of drama, then so be it. And there is no hate in this post, just fact. I have no strikes and always monitor my driving - current safety score from Tesla Insurance is 99 over several thousand miles. Thanks for mis-quoting me, and the needless and un-informative lecture.

 

[DukeofURL]

FSD beta's progress is very similar to AP2 back 5 years ago. Every release some things got better. Sometimes other things would get a little worse, then get better in a later release. Slowly but surely the performance increased to the point where it was relatively trustworthy on highways, and could actually take a curve on a surface street. Similarly, some would get releases before others for reasons unknown.

What I'm trying to say is that you just need to calm down and wait. You'll get it eventually, everyone will (unless your car has a fault code that needs to be fixed prior to upgrades). It's not worth the stress and the dramatic headlines and threats to "report". There is no catastrophe, and there certainly is no "danger" involved with a system that is legally operating as an L2 (supervised) DAS, with the added stipulation that it's beta and "could do the wrong thing at the worst time". I hope soon it graduates to L3 (or maybe even further), but for *right now*, it's just a fun toy.

Most of the time I drive myself. On occasion I'll be like "Let's see how well the car can drive me home". v10.11 is better with some things, not as much with others. To directly answer your one question though, there is still phantom braking.

 

[MD-2000]

If you've used for example, the grammar and spelling suggestions in Word - you realize while computers have a huge reservoir of data and amazing abilities at their fingertips (pin-outs?) they quite often cannot discern simple things we humans take for granted. Or... those magical algorithms that suggest totally incorrect content based on what they discern as your preferences. I've worked with computers for decades, and I am amazed just how smart something like FSD can be, since my experience started with the COBOL days of "ADD PRICE TO TOTAL GIVING TOTAL".

What you are seeing is what programming is. The idea that someone could sit at a desk and produce a program that would drive as flawlessly as the best human, right out of the box, is not true. FSD will make mistakes, just as humans make mistakes, but less often and less likely. Computers may make mistakes interpreting what they see or encountering the unexpected, but they don't get distracted, or get road rage; they are far less likely to miss obvious signage and other traffic And each iteration gets better and better.

Whether it will ever do better than humans in the extreme 'edge conditions" like really bad weather or road conditions - who knows? I'm a skeptic. But then, in those road conditions, the experts say "stay off the road" Usually they are right.

 

[Matias]

It's called a BETA for a reason. There are bugs. Full self driving is an incredibly hard thing to achieve and the fact that we are even this far is pretty crazy.

Tesla’s Elon Musk Says Autonomous Driving Not All That Hard to Achieve

Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk says a fully autonomous vehicle isn’t all that difficult to achieve.

www.wsj.com

 

[Wnuk]

It nearly killed me twice in the last few days and never before 10.10.2. If this is your idea of drama, then so be it.

Nope, no drama at all there

 

[DrDabbles]

I hope I am proven wrong in the weeks to come, but my trust is quickly eroding.

You won't be. Many have been begging this same thing since Navigate on Autopilot and "smart" summon were released. Autopilot will never ever progress beyond an extremely basic Level 3 system, and it will never be a good Level 3 system. Ever. Not ever.

If Tesla focused on releasing quality software rather than pissing talent away on this idiotic circus, they could have had something untouchable. But instead, the software quality has decreased dramatically and rapidly, hardware bugs are abundant, build quality has not improved, and we're still reading the absolute drivel he says on Twitter, rubbing peoples nose in their purchases.

The more people lose patience, the better for Tesla, because they can focus on real products. Not these moronic side quests like bipedal robots that nobody needs, and a fabled "advanced AI" which will literally never exist.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

My biggest disappoint with the beta has been the lack of customer engagement.

There is no bug tracking
There is no support tickets with emails sent to the FSD beta address
There is no guidance on what to concentrate efforts on.
There is no submitting map corrections.

It's also frustrating because we're on a separate SW branch so whatever fixes/improvements the mainline gets we have to wait for.

Like:

Maybe Tesla fixed the latency issue in the rearview/side cameras when backing up
Maybe Tesla fixed the preconditioning so it doesn't turn on and stay on as soon as you enter in the destination supercharger despite it being 90+ miles away. The other day it turned on reducing the destination battery % by 6%, but then kept dropping. I went from having an estimate of 36% to 20% before giving up on it and selecting a nearby location for the destination, and then switching back over during the last 30 min.
Maybe Tesla fixed the Auto Lights to turn on during the rain (during the day). This one is easy to test though as all one has to do in the PNW is to look at other Teslas to see if they have their lights on during the rain.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Complain all you want but I urge you to show me another company that has non-geofenced FSD on consumer vehicles.

Technically it is Geofenced.

There is an area in Toronto where it say NO!!!



For us Seattle people its also ODD limited in that it also says no to the rain. Makes sense as whenever we get moderate rain the side rear facing camera images are bouncing up and down.

 

[Ramphex]

I could have sworn a guy that lives in Florida now, SWORE that he was going to create "the biggest, the MOST beautiful, uncensored social media app, that will destroy the terrible, horrible, failing twitter". What happened with that?

It’s called “Truth Social”, but let’s be real, people don’t like the truth

 

[Raurele]

What’s with the large amount of people from California always accusing others of being a part of some group, usually ending in a *phobe, just because they don’t agree with their opinions? Surprised there isn’t a “teslaphobe” yet but I guess it’s synonymous with TSLAQ.

Just really sick of people saying "I'm gonna file a complaint with 'insert agency here' if they dont fix what I dont like because im angry and my opinion is important! time to run to the government and regulators to have them step in!"

Piss off.

Its a ****ing BETA. you shouldn't have signed up for it. do you want to halt ALL progress? do you want them to only be able to test with a small amount of people that work directly for Tesla? great way to get real progress. lets limit the amount of miles AI is supposed to learn from when thats the ENTIRE ADVANTAGE of Tesla! the amount of miles its beta testers are driving. thinking like that holds back real progress in the world no matter what industry we are talking about.

More regulations isn't the problem. if you dont feel safe, stop using it. So tired of ungrateful, entitled complainers

 

[Supcom]

When you file your NTSB complaint, be sure to provide a screen shot of the FSD beta warning page that tells you that the car might do the worst thing at the worst time. Also be sure that they know that you signed up to be a volunteer software tester of an "early access beta" version of FSD software and that you were not running the normal production software that came with the car when you purchased FSD.

 

[drtimhill]

FSD has become a catastrophe, and a dangerous one at that.

Why "dangerous"? With 60,000 testers we have yet to see any major incident, apart from one off-road driving indecent that was almost certainly caused by the driver when he over-corrected after he took control.

Sure, Elon is the eternal optimist. So what? Do you really take his dates seriously? And what are you going to tell the NHTSA? That his predictions are wrong? That the beta is behind schedule? What schedule?

FSD is a complex effort that has never been attempted before. Never. No-one knows how long it will take or even if it will succeed. Sure, Elon has been super optimistic .. he's always been that. Deal with it.

 

[macmee]

FSD has become a catastrophe, and a dangerous one at that.

We must be using different FSD betas because while mine's not perfect it's damn impressive.

 

[Matias]

Andrej Karpathy may be tossing in the towel. Officially it is sabbath, but many sabbaths in Tesla have turned out to be permanent.

 

[cwerdna]

Andrej Karpathy may be tossing in the towel. Officially it is sabbath, but many sabbaths in Tesla have turned out to be permanent.

You mean sabbatical?

 

[cwerdna]

I will agree it's a very difficult problem and lots of companies w/a lot of smart people (Tesla included) have thrown a ton of $ and resources at the problem.

Tesla’s Elon Musk Says Autonomous Driving Not All That Hard to Achieve

Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk says a fully autonomous vehicle isn’t all that difficult to achieve.

www.wsj.com

It's behind a paywall but I see the gist of it. Elon's made all sorts of summon and autonomous driving claims where the dates have been missed by years and we're still not close. Here are a few, compiled into one location:

Elon Musk Today

elonmusk.today

Elon Musk Today

elonmusk.today

Elon Musk Today

elonmusk.today

You have to give Elon credit for deceiving or misleading or convincing enough people to buy or lease his cars or to pony up $ for FSD or all the different flavors/iterations at https://evannex.com/blogs/news/understanding-teslas-different-autopilot-software-package. It's almost genius that people are willing to pay $12K for the privilege to be unpaid beta testers and Tesla to be absolved of liability when something goes wrong by hiding behind the beta label and disclaimers...

 

[Raurele]

I will agree it's a very difficult problem and lots of companies w/a lot of smart people (Tesla included) have thrown a ton of $ and resources at the problem.

It's behind a paywall but I see the gist of it. Elon's made all sorts of summon and autonomous driving claims where the dates have been missed by years and we're still not close. Here are a few, compiled into one location:

Elon Musk Today

elonmusk.today

Elon Musk Today

elonmusk.today

Elon Musk Today

elonmusk.today

You have to give Elon credit for deceiving or misleading or convincing enough people to buy or lease his cars or to pony up $ for FSD or all the different flavors/iterations at https://evannex.com/blogs/news/understanding-teslas-different-autopilot-software-package. It's almost genius that people are willing to pay $12K for the privilege to be unpaid beta testers and Tesla to be absolved of liability when something goes wrong by hiding behind the beta label and disclaimers...

I subscribe to FSD and dont have the beta. ive opted in and am excited to get accepted, but I couldn't imagine not having the other features of FSD. Driving 150-200 miles a day, on multiple freeways and highways, having it change lanes, and take exits without any effort from me is extremely valuable. I only drive about 5% of the day manually.

You're in the Bay Area so you'll know my route. Santa Cruz to SF to Oakland, back down to San Jose, then Santa Cruz. It drives the 17 to 85, to 280, to 101, over the bay bridge, and all the way back around. I dont drive AT ALL except for through SF. it's flawless for me. there is more value than the beta. Hell, I even use summon because my parking spot is tight and its easier to have it pull out for me in the mornings.

people believing the 12k or subscription are just for the beta, are stupid, and missing the point.