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The catastrophe of FSD and erosion of trust in Tesla

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Absolutely, Tesla has massively influenced the strategies of almost every car maker in the world at this point. There is zero dispute of that.

But has that fundamentally "changed" the world? "Changed" implies global change has already occurred. Not GOING to occur (which it eventually will), but how specifically has Tesla CHANGED the world already in an impactful way? When I think of "world", Im considering the entire globe...mankind...

The % of electric cars overall globally, of every brand, sold was less than 10% total. Over 91% are still ICE...

In the USA? The numbers are worse..~99% are ICE..
Simple
It's like the production curve. It's not terribly impactful at the start but the ramp is incredibly impactful.
Now, bring the results of that ramp forward, say, five years and you have an enormous impact on "the world".

It's a matter of definition and yours is just as good as mine.
 
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It does not now but it did in the beginning. If you shift your butt the wrong way now, it all shuts down and we have that initial clown to thank.
I read an article about someone bypassing it by using a fairly heavy weight (like a bowling ball), and fasten the seat belt, then a weight on the steering wheel, and then sat in passenger seat to have the car drive itself.

FSD Beta requires the cabin camera (if equipped) so that may be more difficult to bypass, but the basic AP and TACC would work with that setup. However, if one were to go through all those steps to bypass safety systems, that person deserves what's coming to them IMO.
 
I read an article about someone bypassing it by using a fairly heavy weight (like a bowling ball), and fasten the seat belt, then a weight on the steering wheel, and then sat in passenger seat to have the car drive itself.

FSD Beta requires the cabin camera (if equipped) so that may be more difficult to bypass, but the basic AP and TACC would work with that setup. However, if one were to go through all those steps to bypass safety systems, that person deserves what's coming to them IMO.
Looks like he’s going to have to paint a face on the bowling ball
 
You seem to be comparing the current wide release software with a finished RT version.
What finished RT version? What is an RT version (I don't what you mean by RT)?

"The catastrophe of FSD" is down to the public wide release software not being much good.

If the standard AP, one: can't be used where there's cross traffic (really? so someone on a freeway spins out of control in front of me, and essentially turns into "cross traffic" I'm screwed?) and two: the AEB can't work when it's needed, what the hell is going on?

I also read somewhere that AP is supposed to learn live all the time, between software updates. Or is that just FSD? The opacity is insane.

The whole thing is a cluster. It does make me a safer driver though, because I'm paying about 5x the attention I used to in my dumb Subaru.
 
This is a weird take given vision-only humans also drive with only visual systems, even in bad weather. And with 4x fewer eyes too.
This is always the take thrown around but anyone remotely into photography/video would tell you-
Your eyes have an order of magnitude higher "resolution" than the cameras in your Tesla, higher "refresh rate" and finally orders of magnitude better "dynamic range" (ability to see brights & darks together).

So yes, in some hypothetical future where the cameras are maybe 8k 240fps, then having all those cameras in all directions will out-shoot a human visually as we can only look in one direction at once. But that future may be another decade.

The cameras in these cars are worse than the cameras in your phone. Now think of how much trouble professional cameras let alone iPhones have with say a subject in the shadows while the background is in the sun?

Have you ever emergency panic braked on the highway because the shadow of an underpass looked like a wall to you? Your Tesla can, has and will.

Etc.
 
What finished RT version?

That's the point.

The current public wide release is not intended to do the things someone is complaining it does not do.

They have imagined what a final finished robotaxi software setup looks like, and they're mad the thing that's explicitly not that is in fact not that.

And somehow conclude they can't ever offer that because they don't now.


"The catastrophe of FSD" is down to the public wide release software not being much good.

It's far better than any other car you can buy.


If the standard AP, one: can't be used where there's cross traffic (really?

Yes really- says so right in the owners manual. I posted screen shots.


The disconnect between that Tesla explicitly tells you the current system can do, and what people imagine in their heads it can, seems a major source of the problem here.



the AEB can't work when it's needed

Except, again, multiple government agencies testing the AEB system says it not only works- it does so in a way superior to most other vehicles.

So there seems to be another disconnect between reality and peoples imaginations.



I also read somewhere that AP is supposed to learn live all the time, between software updates.

It's entirely possible you "read" that somewhere- but it's not actually factually true so whomever you read it from was mistaken.


Again- the issue isn't the actual system, it's misinformation being spread about it.
 
That's the point.

The current public wide release is not intended to do the things someone is complaining it does not do.

They have imagined what a final finished robotaxi software setup looks like, and they're mad the thing that's explicitly not that is in fact not that.

And somehow conclude they can't ever offer that because they don't now.




It's far better than any other car you can buy.




Yes really- says so right in the owners manual. I posted screen shots.


The disconnect between that Tesla explicitly tells you the current system can do, and what people imagine in their heads it can, seems a major source of the problem here.





Except, again, multiple government agencies testing the AEB system says it not only works- it does so in a way superior to most other vehicles.

So there seems to be another disconnect between reality and peoples imaginations.





It's entirely possible you "read" that somewhere- but it's not actually factually true so whomever you read it from was mistaken.


Again- the issue isn't the actual system, it's misinformation being spread about it.
There's a lot of contradictions in Tesla's handling of features, whats in the manual, whats in the website, and what is / isn't labelled as "beta".

Consider this - if AP is not supposed to work or be used in areas with cross traffic.. then why do they highlight it's ability to identify & respond to stop lights and traffic signals? These exist exclusively in areas with .. cross traffic.. no?
 
Or even when the driver may think "something smells funny" alerting them that there may be a problem. Don't underestimate how all the senses contribute to the driving process. Vision only would be an unfortunate handicap.
Yes, on a recent drive I noticed
1) smoke often in the distance
2) google map indicating a spot of traffic in an otherwise dead stretch of road, 1-2mi away
3) as we approached I begun to see some brake lights
My brain said "car fire".

I immediately slowed dramatically, moved to the far left lane and as I got closer turned on my hazards..
Once I got close enough to see the cops lights & actual fire, there were already humans on the highway on both sides of my car..
I don't want to imagine what insane stuff AP would have done had I left it engaged.
 
There's a lot of contradictions in Tesla's handling of features, whats in the manual, whats in the website, and what is / isn't labelled as "beta".

AFAIK everything under the AP and FSD banners are beta.


Consider this - if AP is not supposed to work or be used in areas with cross traffic.. then why do they highlight it's ability to identify & respond to stop lights and traffic signals? These exist exclusively in areas with .. cross traffic.. no?

No. There's controlled access highways with stoplights too (most often though not exclusively at the controlled access points to regulate flow)

Apart from that, it's specifically autosteer that's not intended for use with cross traffic (which is what most people actually mean when they say autopilot.... using Autosteer and TACC at the same time).

Autosteer is not required to respond to stoplights- TACC alone (which is not as restricted in where it's meant to be used) does the stoplight thing.
 
AFAIK everything under the AP and FSD banners are beta.




No. There's controlled access highways with stoplights too (most often though not exclusively at the controlled access points to regulate flow)

Apart from that, it's specifically autosteer that's not intended for use with cross traffic (which is what most people actually mean when they say autopilot.... using Autosteer and TACC at the same time).

Autosteer is not required to respond to stoplights- TACC alone (which is not as restricted in where it's meant to be used) does the stoplight thing.

"Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control is designed to recognize and respond to traffic lights and stop signs, slowing Model 3 to a stop when using Traffic-Aware cruise control or Autosteer."

So they describe the stop sign/light feature as working with Autopilot in either TACC or Autosteer modes.
You skipped over describing what scenarios there are stop signs on limited access highways?

We both know the real answer is that Tesla has inconsistent messaging and purposely expects users to push the envelope on using features outside where their lawyers may have written guidance on..

I mean scroll down on the Autosteer page for where they tell you how it behaves on the roads you say they tell you not to use it on:

Restricted Speed​

On a controlled-access highway, the cruising speed reflects the speed limit, taking into consideration any offset you've specified using Speed Assist. However, if you choose to use Autosteer on residential roads, a road without a center divider, or a road where access is not limited, Autosteer may limit the maximum allowed cruising speed and the touchscreen displays a message indicating that speed is restricted. The restricted speed will be the speed limit of the road plus 10 km/h.
 
"Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control is designed to recognize and respond to traffic lights and stop signs, slowing Model 3 to a stop when using Traffic-Aware cruise control or Autosteer."

Can you show me how to turn on autosteer without TACC?

Spoiler: You can't.


Turning on TACC enables stoplight control. Turning on further features (like autosteer) in addition to TACC doesn't change that.



And yes- Tesla explicitly tells you AS is only intended to work specific places....then tells you some of the restrictions you might encounter if you ignore that. The list is not exhaustive however-- and acting surprised when it works in a way you think it is wrong, in a place they told you it's not intended to be used, is a weird take.
 
And birds fly by flapping their wings so obviously that is how to make airplanes.


And if we were trying to make an entirely different thing than a car self-drive, that analogy might make some sense.

There's tons of reasons a large heavy metal thing needing to hold thousands of pounds of weight in the air (or massively more in larger planes) at triple and quadruple digit speeds does not work precisely how a couple of ounces to couple of pounds creature that flies single or double digit speeds does.


But we're not. We're trying to drive literally the same vehicle the human does with 2 eyes. So that analogy is....let's generously call it poorly conceived.


(also perception and physical motion aren't remotely the same thing either but that just makes an already terrible analogy even worse)