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The current status of charging in the Netherlands (Summer 2011)

Discussion in 'Europe' started by widodh, Jun 30, 2011.

  1. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    #1 widodh, Jun 30, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2011
    A lot is going on lately in the Netherlands around charging, so I thought it might be worth a post to give foreigners a update.

    E-Laad
    E-Laad is a initiative of the dutch electricity network (Tennet) and the energy companies like Essent, Nuon and Delta.

    When you buy an EV in the Netherlands you get a free charging station at your house, but if you live in an appartment or house without a private parking-space, they will place the charger on a public parking spot and make it a reserved spot for EV's (not just for you!). Most of the time they'll reserve two parking places.

    For Tesla owners there is a down-side, the charging stations are 3x16A (11kW), so with a Tesla you'll be limited to 16A, not much, but hey, it's free (so is charging)!

    At the moment E-Laad has 500 charging stations installed throughout the Netherlands. E-Laad's goal is to have 10.000 charging stations installed in a few years.

    To charge at E-Laad you need a special card which you get if you own a EV. I do not know about a temporary card for foreigners, I'll have to ask.

    Amsterdam
    Amsterdam Elektrisch is a division of the city of Amsterdam which goal is to promote and support EV's in the city.

    If you buy a EV in Amsterdam you also get a free charging station, no matter where you are in Amsterdam. Even better, parking is free with a EV in Amsterdam! Normally parking is around EUR 5,00 an hour, when at a EV charging spot with an EV, it's free!

    I just received Amsterdam's newsletter, they recently installed the 160th charging station in Amsterdam!

    In Amsterdam they also use the Type 2 (IEC 62192-2 / 'Mennekes') connector, the power output is the same as with E-Laad: 3x16A.

    A few weeks ago the first 10 EV taxi's started driving around in Amsterdam, so if you ever visit Amsterdam, make sure to take the EV taxi!

    To charge at the charging stations in Amsterdam you'll need a special card, but you can also use your E-Laad card and vise versa.

    Utrecht and Rotterdam
    These both are big cities in NL, although they are not as far yet as Amsterdam, they are also working on initiatives to place charging stations throughout the city.

    Fast charging
    The New Motion helps EV (and future) owners with their problems, but they are also working on 30 fast chargers throughout the country.

    Their partners in this initiative are Liander, Stichting DOEN, Nissan, BP, Terberg GreenLease, Markeur, Van der Valk, Prestige GreenCab and Epyon.

    To bad if you own a Tesla, these chargers are DC power (Chademo), never the less, hopefully the Model S will support it!

    All these chargers are being installed at Hotels and Restaurants near major highways so you can cruise throughout the country.

    A charge of 30 minutes will cost you 4 euro.

    A charging station was opened at Hotel van der Valk at Vianen (along the highway A2) yesterday, some pictures of the opening can be found at Facebook.

    Q-Park
    Q-Park provides parking facilities throughout the country. They recently announced that they are going to install at least 10 charging stations per parking facility.

    These charging stations will probably be 3x16A as well.

    Type 2 -> Tesla charging cable
    EV-Box is supplying a Type 2 -> Tesla charging:

    mennekes-to-tesla-cable.jpg

    The cable is able to handle up to 32A and cost EUR 1100,00. Since they Tesla connectors are not freely available they buy a spare mobile connector and take of the connector and solder it to a official Mennekes cable.

    You can contact them directly to order it.




    As you can see, we are progressing pretty well! You also might notice why we want 3-phase charging. All charging stations deliver 11kW of power at least, that gives 50km of range per hour! But it's pretty painfull to see that a Tesla can't benefit from it.

    If you have any questions about charging in NL as a foreigner, shoot!
     
  2. AndrewBissell

    AndrewBissell Member

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    You've seen what was done in the UK and DACH with HPCs. Anybody trying to do the same for NL or BENELUX?
     
  3. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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    HPC for Germany or Netherlands ist a problem with single-phase. we would need a converter 3x32A to 1x 70A.
     
  4. AndrewBissell

    AndrewBissell Member

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    Umm - I thought there was a map, with installed HPCs? Surely they are working at high amperes (60-70), or what would be the point?
     
  5. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Drawing 60A on 1 phase is not done, I haven't seen a HPC around here. The Tesla store in NL (will open in a few weeks) will be limited to 32A.

    Some guys are working on the three-phase to one-phase converters. But I don't gues a lot of HPC's will be installed in NL since the focus goes to three-phase 16A for slow to medium chargers and Chademo for fast charging. The Roadster simply is a bit awkward, only single-phase :( The price of being a pioneer.
     
  6. AndrewBissell

    AndrewBissell Member

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    Thanks for the clarification that full power HPC isnt possible in NL.

    Can I suggest you get on a ferry from Amsterdam (Ijmuiden) to Newcastle and then (starting with the Raddison Blu Durham, just south of Newcastle) enjoy the full 60-70A HPC brilliance of the UK HPC network! A great way to have a Roadster vacation and visit Scotland or all over England.

    Back on topic: I know some Swiss HPCs are full power (60-70A) for instance the one at the Dolder Grand Hotel in Zurich. These clearly draw 60-70A off one phase. So my question goes back to Eberhard: are the other DACH HPCs on the map 60-70A? If so are they specially licensed to allow this?
     
  7. emq

    emq Member

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    #7 emq, Jul 8, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2011
    In Switzerland the official Limit is 16A, in Germany 20A, Higher current needs conditional conection alowence

    Grand Dolder has a own 22KV to 230/400V Transformer with 18000A short circuit current, so there is no tecnical problem.
    .
     
  8. AndrewBissell

    AndrewBissell Member

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    I still feel there is a fog on this subject. I understand the assertion: single-phase is current limited (20A I Germany, 16A in Switzerland)... BUT

    Tesla has announced a map with HPCs. So are they HPCs with just 20 or 16A capability? If so, why did they bother - they are not worth anything more than a bare socket. Or are they 60 or 70A? If so, great - but how did they break the limit?

    Bluntly - if I plan to get on the ferry from the UK and tour Germany, Austria and Switzerland via this network, am I looking at nice fast charge times, or a charging wait from hell?
     
  9. Alfred

    Alfred Member

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    To install an HPC in Switzerland is not impossible, but in most locations expensive, as you may have to add a 3 to 1 phase transformer. Otherwise it is mostly 16 A via the blue "Camping Plug" or the red CEE 3 phase connector. There are some locations in Switzerland with the red 32A CEE 3-phase plug that will tolerate single phase connections (see Lemnet.org).

    Standard household plugs are 10A. A Swiss Roadster will default to 10A with the spare connector. A German Roadster defaults to 16A, as their "Schuko Plug" allows in most places in Germany 16A.

    If you are coming from the UK, note that the blue 32A CEE "Commando Plug" is not available everywhere, certainly not in Switzerland. Here you will need the red 32A 3-phase plug and the commercially available 32A to 16A adapter. You have to dial down in the Roadster accordingly. For the new UMC you can get the red 32A plug.
     
  10. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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    3 phase to single phase converter makes little sense, instead charging with DC may better to avoid additional conversion. Best solution a new PEM with 3 smaller charger of 24A = 1-phase 75A or 3-phase 24A(32A)
     
  11. emq

    emq Member

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    Are you ready to give up the warranty. When expires the car warranty, when the akku, How much is a new Akku?
     
  12. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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  13. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    I just got a update from E-Laad, on December 8th they will open the 1000st public charging station in the Netherlands! Add the ~275 from Amsterdam and we are going pretty fast for such a tiny country :)

    (Psst, these charging stations are ALL equipped with 3-phase (3x16A) 11kW output!)
     
  14. Bram

    Bram Member

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    Yesterday I tested the Tesla Roadster at the 1.000th public charging station. Nothing can go wrong when the cameras are running next week!

    There are a lot of questions about the difference in kW's. We hope to convince OEM's to equip their EV's with 3-phase chargers.
     
  15. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    How did you hook up to the Type 2 connector? You have this cable as well? http://zooi.widodh.nl/ev/tech/charging/mennekes-to-tesla-cable.jpg
     
  16. Bram

    Bram Member

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    Yes, but not from EV-box. I've got it from Chargepoint.
     
  17. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    I just found an article on a dutch website. Next year we'll have 5.000 charging stations throughout the country and we should have a 100 50kW CHAdeMO chargers.

    Our tiny country is just 350km wide and 450km 'high', so that is a nice density!
     

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