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The February 2016 issue of Car and Driver...

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Eclectic, Jan 2, 2016.

  1. Eclectic

    Eclectic Member

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    ...is full of Tesla. Two articles, one comparing four semi-autonomous cars (a P85D, an Infiniti Q50S, Mercedes S65 and BMW 750i) and a review of the P90D ludicrous. I won't ruin the reading for anyone by disclosing the results. I subscribe to C/D, I'm not sure when it hits newsstands.
     
  2. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

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    Heading to library tomorrow!
     
  3. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Active Member

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    That's cruel. Maybe a Mod can change the thread title to 'Spolier!', blah, blah, blah and then you could spill the beans? :biggrin:
     
  4. JST

    JST Active Member

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    #4 JST, Jan 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
    Spoiler alert. This is what everyone really wants to know, right?

    70d221581f654076fd75186225ad64f7.jpg

    Edit: apologies for that if I ruined it for anyone, but I won't divulge the actual review, which is definitely worth a read (though short).

    It's also interesting that they list the power as:

    HP
    F: 259 hp R: 503 hp
    Combined: 532 hp

    Torque
    F: 244 lbs/ft R: 469 lbs/ft
    Combined: 713 lbs/ft
     
  5. ggr

    ggr Roadster R80 537, SigS P85 29

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    How can the 5-60 time be so much longer than the 0-60 time? Given the good brakes, it might be better to stop first and then launch :)
     
  6. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    My guess is that it's real, and represents the time it takes to depress the accelerator and the softened acceleration that results from depressing it progressively instead of, as one magazine review suggested "mule-kicking" the accelerator.
    Walter
     
  7. sillydriver

    sillydriver Member

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    This is great. I think what a lot of us care about is passing power, which has been a deficiency of P85D insane cars. I like to use 60 - 100 as a proxy because it's easy to calculate by subtracting a magazine's 0 - 60 time from its 0 - 100 time. The above is 7.1 - 2.8 = 4.3 seconds. The standard for the best German sedans (e.g. RS7) is about 4.5s. Insane mode was close to 5s. The shortfall is finally fixed!
     
  8. Caligula

    Caligula Member

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    This makes me wish I had a P. Only thing I find lacking is top end.
     
  9. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    Here we go again. Rollout. If you want to know how fast a car is in real life, look for 5-60 numbers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    This is incorrect.

    Who are you trying to pass? An RS7 trying to keep you out of the lane? You're going to need 60-100 time closer to 2 seconds to do that.
     
  10. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    LOL at the "Shell V-Power Premium Gasoline. The Official Fuel of Car and Driver." Ad placement fail. :)
     
  11. sillydriver

    sillydriver Member

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    I'm trying to pass any slow car with at least the same rush, thrill and quickness that I would experience if I had bought an RS7, M6, etc.

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    Which is incorrect: the subtraction of one number from another, the measured fact that insane cars underperform german performance sedans, or the statement that a lot of us care about passing power?
     
  12. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    Subtraction.
     
  13. DFibRL8R

    DFibRL8R Member

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    Almost as funny as some of the banner ads I get on the TMC site which I guess are based on recent internet search cookies etc. I especially like the ones that show up from time to time for the petroleum industry.
     
  14. eye.surgeon

    eye.surgeon Member

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    James May once said that Nürburgring lap timing is ruining car engineering and design. Well, so are 0-60 times. People who don't know very much about cars are so hyper-focused on such a meaningless metric of performance. I love fast, high performance cars. I don't give a rip about 0-60 times.
     
  15. Ames

    Ames Member

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    LOL

    I wonder what the "...minor adjustments to our usual procedures (noted in text)." were?
     
  16. 3mp_kwh

    3mp_kwh Member

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    I have no problem reading into 0-60 times as measure of performance. I think Musk has eye.surgeon's problem, however. He's more proud of numbers and, I worry, taking the steering wheel away. I wish Faraday Future success. EV's need an entrant focused on driving, not hiring "no automotive experience necessary" types as the highest, "you'll interview Elon directly", priority. That is where I see meaningless mission creep, as automatic pilot will become mundane before the visceral experience of driving.

    C&D almost never gets close to EPA with its "Observed", but isn't "66 MPGe" about the same as 500 watt hrs/mile? Unless test day was cold, that would take quite a romp.
     
  17. Eclectic

    Eclectic Member

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    They usually do back to back runs to get an average for their tests. They noted that they waited a few minutes between runs in the Tesla to allow for cooling of the battery pack and related equipment (something they don't do in ICE tests).

    Since the test results have been posted, what I found very interesting in this issue of C/D is the test of a Ferrari F12tdf, which was printed on the page before the P90D test. The Ferrari, at $490,000, had the same 0-60 as the P90D and was only .3 seconds faster to 100 and in the 1/4 mile (for those who care about such things, of course...).

    The C/D story that I found more interesting, though, was the 4 way comparison of semi-autonomous cars. The results of that test will be of some interest to folks here...
     
  18. InternetDude

    InternetDude Member

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    MPGe is stupid.
     
  19. AWDtsla

    AWDtsla Active Member

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    Reading the article: >95% charge, max battery ready, pausing 3 minutes between runs, no pano, no rear facing seats, no dual charger (How heavy is it???)

    and they got to 11.1 :-/
     
  20. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    "rolling start" 5-60 times are always slower for practically every car (in an ICE car it can be a full second slower) because it means they are rolling the car along at 5 mph before giving full throttle. The means the car doesn't get to preload for launch mode and for ICE cars they are also at a disadvantageous gearing/rpm at the start.

    For the Tesla with the new launch mode, it means no launch mode, and also it means you can't do the pedal kick for max acceleration (so you won't be at max possible torque at 5 mph).

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    Motor Trend did a full charge in their test. I'm starting to wonder if the "90%" optimal point others have assumed is not correct, as all the magazines have been testing at close to 100% as possible.

    [email protected] mph average is still better than the best run others have gotten ([email protected] mph).
    http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/launch-mode-testing-on-tesla-p90d-ludicrous
     

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