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The February 2016 issue of Car and Driver...

Eclectic

Member
Nov 8, 2014
773
919
Bay Area & Montana
...is full of Tesla. Two articles, one comparing four semi-autonomous cars (a P85D, an Infiniti Q50S, Mercedes S65 and BMW 750i) and a review of the P90D ludicrous. I won't ruin the reading for anyone by disclosing the results. I subscribe to C/D, I'm not sure when it hits newsstands.
 

JST

Active Member
May 23, 2013
1,560
222
Spoiler alert. This is what everyone really wants to know, right?

70d221581f654076fd75186225ad64f7.jpg


Edit: apologies for that if I ruined it for anyone, but I won't divulge the actual review, which is definitely worth a read (though short).

It's also interesting that they list the power as:

HP
F: 259 hp R: 503 hp
Combined: 532 hp

Torque
F: 244 lbs/ft R: 469 lbs/ft
Combined: 713 lbs/ft
 
Last edited:

ggr

Expert in Dunning-Kruger Effect!
Mar 24, 2011
6,974
27,509
San Diego, CA
Spoiler alert. This is what everyone really wants to know, right?

70d221581f654076fd75186225ad64f7.jpg


Edit: apologies for that if I ruined it for anyone, but I won't divulge the actual review, which is definitely worth a read (though short).

It's also interesting that they list the power as:

HP
F: 259 hp R: 503 hp
Combined: 532 hp

Torque
F: 244 lbs/ft R: 469 lbs/ft
Combined: 713 lbs/ft

How can the 5-60 time be so much longer than the 0-60 time? Given the good brakes, it might be better to stop first and then launch :)
 

Saghost

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2013
8,217
7,007
Delaware
How can the 5-60 time be so much longer than the 0-60 time? Given the good brakes, it might be better to stop first and then launch :)

My guess is that it's real, and represents the time it takes to depress the accelerator and the softened acceleration that results from depressing it progressively instead of, as one magazine review suggested "mule-kicking" the accelerator.
Walter
 

sillydriver

Member
Oct 19, 2014
804
557
Middleburg, va
Spoiler alert. This is what everyone really wants to know, right?

70d221581f654076fd75186225ad64f7.jpg
This is great. I think what a lot of us care about is passing power, which has been a deficiency of P85D insane cars. I like to use 60 - 100 as a proxy because it's easy to calculate by subtracting a magazine's 0 - 60 time from its 0 - 100 time. The above is 7.1 - 2.8 = 4.3 seconds. The standard for the best German sedans (e.g. RS7) is about 4.5s. Insane mode was close to 5s. The shortfall is finally fixed!
 

Caligula

Member
Oct 14, 2015
596
149
San Diego
This is great. I think what a lot of us care about is passing power, which has been a deficiency of P85D insane cars. I like to use 60 - 100 as a proxy because it's easy to calculate by subtracting a magazine's 0 - 60 time from its 0 - 100 time. The above is 7.1 - 2.8 = 4.3 seconds. The standard for the best German sedans (e.g. RS7) is about 4.5s. Insane mode was close to 5s. The shortfall is finally fixed!

This makes me wish I had a P. Only thing I find lacking is top end.
 

AWDtsla

Active Member
Mar 3, 2013
4,262
3,952
NE
How can the 5-60 time be so much longer than the 0-60 time? Given the good brakes, it might be better to stop first and then launch :)

Here we go again. Rollout. If you want to know how fast a car is in real life, look for 5-60 numbers.

- - - Updated - - -

This is great. I think what a lot of us care about is passing power, which has been a deficiency of P85D insane cars. I like to use 60 - 100 as a proxy because it's easy to calculate by subtracting a magazine's 0 - 60 time from its 0 - 100 time.
This is incorrect.

The above is 7.1 - 2.8 = 4.3 seconds. The standard for the best German sedans (e.g. RS7) is about 4.5s. Insane mode was close to 5s. The shortfall is finally fixed!

Who are you trying to pass? An RS7 trying to keep you out of the lane? You're going to need 60-100 time closer to 2 seconds to do that.
 

sillydriver

Member
Oct 19, 2014
804
557
Middleburg, va
Who are you trying to pass? An RS7 trying to keep you out of the lane? You're going to need 60-100 time closer to 2 seconds to do that.
I'm trying to pass any slow car with at least the same rush, thrill and quickness that I would experience if I had bought an RS7, M6, etc.

- - - Updated - - -

This is incorrect.
Which is incorrect: the subtraction of one number from another, the measured fact that insane cars underperform german performance sedans, or the statement that a lot of us care about passing power?
 

DFibRL8R

Active Member
Jan 17, 2013
1,286
1,796
Leesburg Virginia
LOL at the "Shell V-Power Premium Gasoline. The Official Fuel of Car and Driver." Ad placement fail. :)


Almost as funny as some of the banner ads I get on the TMC site which I guess are based on recent internet search cookies etc. I especially like the ones that show up from time to time for the petroleum industry.
 

eye.surgeon

Active Member
Nov 18, 2014
1,368
2,014
California
James May once said that Nürburgring lap timing is ruining car engineering and design. Well, so are 0-60 times. People who don't know very much about cars are so hyper-focused on such a meaningless metric of performance. I love fast, high performance cars. I don't give a rip about 0-60 times.
 

3mp_kwh

Active Member
Feb 13, 2013
1,115
263
Boston
I have no problem reading into 0-60 times as measure of performance. I think Musk has eye.surgeon's problem, however. He's more proud of numbers and, I worry, taking the steering wheel away. I wish Faraday Future success. EV's need an entrant focused on driving, not hiring "no automotive experience necessary" types as the highest, "you'll interview Elon directly", priority. That is where I see meaningless mission creep, as automatic pilot will become mundane before the visceral experience of driving.

C&D almost never gets close to EPA with its "Observed", but isn't "66 MPGe" about the same as 500 watt hrs/mile? Unless test day was cold, that would take quite a romp.
 

Eclectic

Member
Nov 8, 2014
773
919
Bay Area & Montana
LOL

I wonder what the "...minor adjustments to our usual procedures (noted in text)." were?

They usually do back to back runs to get an average for their tests. They noted that they waited a few minutes between runs in the Tesla to allow for cooling of the battery pack and related equipment (something they don't do in ICE tests).

Since the test results have been posted, what I found very interesting in this issue of C/D is the test of a Ferrari F12tdf, which was printed on the page before the P90D test. The Ferrari, at $490,000, had the same 0-60 as the P90D and was only .3 seconds faster to 100 and in the 1/4 mile (for those who care about such things, of course...).

The C/D story that I found more interesting, though, was the 4 way comparison of semi-autonomous cars. The results of that test will be of some interest to folks here...
 

AWDtsla

Active Member
Mar 3, 2013
4,262
3,952
NE
LOL

I wonder what the "...minor adjustments to our usual procedures (noted in text)." were?


Reading the article: >95% charge, max battery ready, pausing 3 minutes between runs, no pano, no rear facing seats, no dual charger (How heavy is it???)

and they got to 11.1 :-/
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
9,936
4,850
How can the 5-60 time be so much longer than the 0-60 time? Given the good brakes, it might be better to stop first and then launch :)
"rolling start" 5-60 times are always slower for practically every car (in an ICE car it can be a full second slower) because it means they are rolling the car along at 5 mph before giving full throttle. The means the car doesn't get to preload for launch mode and for ICE cars they are also at a disadvantageous gearing/rpm at the start.

For the Tesla with the new launch mode, it means no launch mode, and also it means you can't do the pedal kick for max acceleration (so you won't be at max possible torque at 5 mph).

- - - Updated - - -

Reading the article: >95% charge, max battery ready, pausing 3 minutes between runs, no pano, no rear facing seats, no dual charger (How heavy is it???)

and they got to 11.1 :-/
Motor Trend did a full charge in their test. I'm starting to wonder if the "90%" optimal point others have assumed is not correct, as all the magazines have been testing at close to 100% as possible.

[email protected] mph average is still better than the best run others have gotten ([email protected] mph).
http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/launch-mode-testing-on-tesla-p90d-ludicrous
 

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