henderrj
Active Member
I don't think they will stick to the side of the model X though, as it is aluminum. Still, I think this is a great idea.
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The full System shut down while driving and HV replacement experience
- Thread starter artc6688
- Start date
I don't think they will stick to the side of the model X though, as it is aluminum. Still, I think this is a great idea.
Oh My.. You are right!! CRAP! I tested it on all my other vehicles and works fine... But Not my MX, which is STILL in the SC!!
Hopefully, you've reported your safety defect to NHTSA (via Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA).
Years ago, there were a bunch of people who were very vocal here in discourage people from reporting clear safety defects on Teslas (e.g. loss of propulsion not due to user error) to NHTSA. Some of those got carved out and moved to When to report NHTSA issues?. This is the only car forum I've ever been on w/such an attitude esp. amongst multiple people. Fortunately, it seems the attitude or sentiment has changed here, for the most part but hasn't totally gone away (Tesla 3: Second drive unit failure in under a year).
Sadly, an engine failure is possible in any vehicle from any brand of any type. I don't consider a failure of the powerplant in a ground vehicle to be a safety issue. It fails, worst case you're just stuck and inconvenienced. Yeah, might not be a great place to be because humans are terrible, but an engine failure isn't going to kill you or hurt you. The only way you get hurt from an engine failure is if another human's poor driving causes this... in which case an engine failure is no more unsafe than getting a flat tire. Engine failure is probably safer actually, since you generally don't lose directional control at all like you might with a blowout tire. Do we need to start reporting flat tires to NHTSA?!
In other vehicles, like an airplane, an engine failure is an immediate emergency requiring skill and luck to survive unscathed. In contrast, a 90 year old driver with the worst reaction time imaginable and the worst driving skills ever is pretty much 100% going to survive a vehicle's engine failing without any special skill and without any injury.
Bottom line, an engine/motor failing in a car isn't safety defect. It sucks and is inconvenient, but it's not inherently unsafe. Stop wasting people's time trying to claim otherwise.
In other vehicles, like an airplane, an engine failure is an immediate emergency requiring skill and luck to survive unscathed. In contrast, a 90 year old driver with the worst reaction time imaginable and the worst driving skills ever is pretty much 100% going to survive a vehicle's engine failing without any special skill and without any injury.
Bottom line, an engine/motor failing in a car isn't safety defect. It sucks and is inconvenient, but it's not inherently unsafe. Stop wasting people's time trying to claim otherwise.
So, companies like the below were wrong to issue recalls?
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/23600005/rbaldwin_220414_5255_0003.jpg)
www.theverge.com
www.thetruthaboutcars.com
www.cnet.com
www.thestreet.com
www.thecarconnection.com
Loss of propulsion not due to accident or user error seems to clearly meet the bar at Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA
"What is a safety-related defect?
Generally, a safety defect is a problem that poses a risk to motor vehicle safety, and may exist in a group of vehicles or equipment of the same design and/or manufacturer. An example of a safety-related defect is a steering component that breaks, causing a driver to lose control. However, an air conditioner that does not work properly isn't considered a safety-related defect, because it does not pose a risk to motor vehicle safety."
OP used these words:
"I had to pull over to the left shoulder due to limited control of my MX and I was only able to coast without any control of my power padel.. It was a scary moment hearing the beeping warning sound and the cars flying by in the express lane. feeling the MX shaken every time when car passes by. I tried to call Tesla roadside assistance and waited for >40 min without anyone picking up the call. Decided to call the highway patrol and we were EXTREMELY LUCKY when the patrol car pulled up to protect us with its flashing warning lights. Because within five minutes of highway patrol arrival, ALL POWER shut down!! My warning light blinker and headlights were out COMPLETELY!!! We could have been in a detrimental situation if the patrol car did not show up and ended up with cars/semi running into our parked MX."
For flat tires, if there is an inherent problem w/the tire's design or manufacturing that causes it to go flat at a significantly higher rate vs. other tires on the market, then yes. Tires have been recalled before. Google for tire recall flat.
Reporting to NHTSA provides them w/a data point in an centralized location. If it's not reported, they likely will not know about it. If NHTSA eventually feels that it is worth investigating, they will, but they need data points. Tell me what is purpose of and what its to be gained by the OP NOT reporting to NHTSA?
I posted this in 2013 at When to report NHTSA issues?
"If NHTSA initiates an investigation (in general, not for this specific issue/incident), they'll be asking questions and for data from an automaker. If the automaker can't answer them or doesn't have good answers, then you have to question whether they should be making and selling cars. If they don't have the resources to, the same question applies.
Have you folks looked at the Charting Panic chart at It's All Your Fault: The DOT Renders Its Verdict on Toyota's Unintended-Acceleration Scare Car and Driver of the HUGE spike in "unintended acceleration" during the whole Toyota SUA/sticky pedal PR disaster? Hmmm... were all those legit complaints or were there perhaps other motives? Why the spike (which is supposedly normal, when a recall hits the news)? What if those folks had complained earlier and in similar volumes or more spread out? Maybe the Toyota recall would've happened sooner there would've been fewer accidents, injuries and deaths?
Heck, as I mentioned, I am a fan of Toyota and Nissan and I told my dad to file a safety complaint w/NHTSA when his 02 Toyota Rav4 leaked fuel. He did it after the dealer resolved it (Toyota does quite well in terms of ratio of complaints vs. market share - MY350Z.COM Forums).
I'm a Prius fan and owner told Prius owners to file safety complaints w/NHTSA like at near complete brake failure on my way home from Coachella | PriusChat. I don't recall people jumping all over me over there about it. Others have done the same at Replacing HID Headlights on 2007 Prius - Bumper off or not | PriusChat and Warning: My 2010 Prius brakes failed while driving! | PriusChat and I don't recall many folks saying "no, don't report it NHTSA"."
Back to the BMW iX recall, for example, from 2022 BMW IX SUV AWD | NHTSA that recall starts with these words:
"December 20, 2022 NHTSA Campaign Number: 22V944000
High Voltage Battery ECU May Interrupt Power
An interruption of electrical power may result in a sudden loss of drive power, increasing the risk of a crash."
BMW recalls over 14,000 iX, i4, and i7 electric vehicles for faulty battery software
This is a much larger recall than BMW’s last one.
www.theverge.com
Jeep Recalls Almost 63K Wrangler 4xes for Potential Loss of Power
Last week, we learned that the Jeep Compass and certain Ram trucks were under investigation for loss of power and other issues, which could lead to recalls of those vehicles. At the same time, the automaker issued a formal recall for the Jeep Wrangler 4xe, a recent addition to its lineup. The...
www.thetruthaboutcars.com
Toyota recalls 752,000 Prius hybrids for loss of power
In some cases, the Prius may not enter a failsafe mode as intended if the hybrid system fails.
www.cnet.com
Mercedes-Benz Recalls 324,000 Vehicles Over Stalling Problem - TheStreet
Mercedes-Benz says water infiltration could cause vehicles to stall without warning while driving.
www.thestreet.com
2016-2018 Infiniti Q50, 2017 Infiniti Q60 recalled over stalling concerns
Nissan is recalling some 14,192 Infiniti Q50 and Q60 vehicles from the 2016, 2017, and 2018 model years. Documents from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration indicate that, due to a software glitch, those vehicles may be at risk of stalling. The software in question is found on the...
Loss of propulsion not due to accident or user error seems to clearly meet the bar at Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA
"What is a safety-related defect?
Generally, a safety defect is a problem that poses a risk to motor vehicle safety, and may exist in a group of vehicles or equipment of the same design and/or manufacturer. An example of a safety-related defect is a steering component that breaks, causing a driver to lose control. However, an air conditioner that does not work properly isn't considered a safety-related defect, because it does not pose a risk to motor vehicle safety."
OP used these words:
"I had to pull over to the left shoulder due to limited control of my MX and I was only able to coast without any control of my power padel.. It was a scary moment hearing the beeping warning sound and the cars flying by in the express lane. feeling the MX shaken every time when car passes by. I tried to call Tesla roadside assistance and waited for >40 min without anyone picking up the call. Decided to call the highway patrol and we were EXTREMELY LUCKY when the patrol car pulled up to protect us with its flashing warning lights. Because within five minutes of highway patrol arrival, ALL POWER shut down!! My warning light blinker and headlights were out COMPLETELY!!! We could have been in a detrimental situation if the patrol car did not show up and ended up with cars/semi running into our parked MX."
For flat tires, if there is an inherent problem w/the tire's design or manufacturing that causes it to go flat at a significantly higher rate vs. other tires on the market, then yes. Tires have been recalled before. Google for tire recall flat.
Reporting to NHTSA provides them w/a data point in an centralized location. If it's not reported, they likely will not know about it. If NHTSA eventually feels that it is worth investigating, they will, but they need data points. Tell me what is purpose of and what its to be gained by the OP NOT reporting to NHTSA?
I posted this in 2013 at When to report NHTSA issues?
"If NHTSA initiates an investigation (in general, not for this specific issue/incident), they'll be asking questions and for data from an automaker. If the automaker can't answer them or doesn't have good answers, then you have to question whether they should be making and selling cars. If they don't have the resources to, the same question applies.
Have you folks looked at the Charting Panic chart at It's All Your Fault: The DOT Renders Its Verdict on Toyota's Unintended-Acceleration Scare Car and Driver of the HUGE spike in "unintended acceleration" during the whole Toyota SUA/sticky pedal PR disaster? Hmmm... were all those legit complaints or were there perhaps other motives? Why the spike (which is supposedly normal, when a recall hits the news)? What if those folks had complained earlier and in similar volumes or more spread out? Maybe the Toyota recall would've happened sooner there would've been fewer accidents, injuries and deaths?
Heck, as I mentioned, I am a fan of Toyota and Nissan and I told my dad to file a safety complaint w/NHTSA when his 02 Toyota Rav4 leaked fuel. He did it after the dealer resolved it (Toyota does quite well in terms of ratio of complaints vs. market share - MY350Z.COM Forums).
I'm a Prius fan and owner told Prius owners to file safety complaints w/NHTSA like at near complete brake failure on my way home from Coachella | PriusChat. I don't recall people jumping all over me over there about it. Others have done the same at Replacing HID Headlights on 2007 Prius - Bumper off or not | PriusChat and Warning: My 2010 Prius brakes failed while driving! | PriusChat and I don't recall many folks saying "no, don't report it NHTSA"."
Back to the BMW iX recall, for example, from 2022 BMW IX SUV AWD | NHTSA that recall starts with these words:
"December 20, 2022 NHTSA Campaign Number: 22V944000
High Voltage Battery ECU May Interrupt Power
An interruption of electrical power may result in a sudden loss of drive power, increasing the risk of a crash."
Here are some additional recent recalls for loss of propulsion:
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/SZX762RN7ZMF3CPXFG2RIB2MEI.jpg)
www.reuters.com
insideevs.com
Stellantis recalls 76,000 plug-in hybrid minivans over engine issue
Automaker Stellantis' U.S. unit said on Tuesday it was recalling 76,000 plug-in hybrid electric minivans because of a short circuit issue that could cause engines to stall unexpectedly.
www.reuters.com
Volkswagen Recalls 21,000 ID.4s Because They Might Stall While Driving
Affected owners will get an alert on the car's dashboard, prompting them to schedule a service appointment for the installation of a software fix.
insideevs.com
If there were actually a factory defect in all vehicles, or even some measurable unexpected percentage of vehicles, that caused such issues, then alright sure. Recall, do whatever to fix it. It's still not a safety issue.
But, a component that clearly lasts, works for the better part of a decade in the field (and counting), and has well below sub 1% loss-of-power-while-driving failures even after all that time.... sorry, but that's just bad luck with a component. In-warranty, that's what the warranty is for.
This obviously isn't a systemic issue with Tesla vehicles in anything close to a recall worthy way. A handful of component failures out of quite literally millions is not an emergency. If there were an appreciable percentage of vehicles affected by some kind of powerplant issue, that's all that'd be discussed on this forum. Instead, the vehicles are actually incredibly reliable despite claims from haters and opponents.
And again, I standby my sentiment in my post above. This is never a safety issue, anyway. Inconvenient when your engine dies? Sure. Unsafe? No. The fact that the NHTSA would even entertain a loss-of-propulsion claim under its mandate at all is ludicrous to me.
But, a component that clearly lasts, works for the better part of a decade in the field (and counting), and has well below sub 1% loss-of-power-while-driving failures even after all that time.... sorry, but that's just bad luck with a component. In-warranty, that's what the warranty is for.
This obviously isn't a systemic issue with Tesla vehicles in anything close to a recall worthy way. A handful of component failures out of quite literally millions is not an emergency. If there were an appreciable percentage of vehicles affected by some kind of powerplant issue, that's all that'd be discussed on this forum. Instead, the vehicles are actually incredibly reliable despite claims from haters and opponents.
And again, I standby my sentiment in my post above. This is never a safety issue, anyway. Inconvenient when your engine dies? Sure. Unsafe? No. The fact that the NHTSA would even entertain a loss-of-propulsion claim under its mandate at all is ludicrous to me.
henderrj
Active Member
Not to worry. It's actually quite rare to have any problems when you pick up a vehicle. At least any major ones! I wouldn't have any hesitation at all in taking an even longer trip than that when I first got a model x.
I did 10k miles this past summer in my model S driving out west through the Rockies and through Canada to Nova Scotia. I certainly am glad I didn’t let fears keep me from driving mine. Any vehicles “could” have issues. Saw a LOT of Teslas in Quebec and other Canadian provinces. None had troubles. Did see a couple gas car fires though.
In a couple months, planning on driving from Michigan to van couver CA via the trans Canadian highway. My 2017 MS with 95k miles has done great.
I wouldn't say this is anything specific to Tesla or to electric vehicles, but I generally wouldn't try to take any brand new vehicle on a really long road trip in the first couple of weeks. Any vehicle is a really complex built piece of equipment, and it's not unusual to reveal a problem or two as all of the systems get used early on. That's why the phrase "shakedown cruise" exists. We rented a van for my daughter's wedding, and it was a brand new GMC with only 400 miles and still had the new car smell. The A/C didn't work at all in June. That wasn't great. And my newly delivered Tesla in 2014 wouldn't auto-present the door handles. That turned out to be a broken clip on a wiring harness in the door, so it had pulled apart. Stuff can need to be discovered and fixed on new vehicles.
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