The Grand Tour did Model X Review - Clarkson Liked it - Kind of

[Yinn]

Given that it was a SUV challenge, I'm a bit disappointed they didn't use the X in the same. The X would've easily handled 2-3 of those dogs with the 3rd row folded. Easily towed a boat, and probably would've done pretty well on the track based on their track lap time, and probably would've done decently on those trails.

 

[Bad Horse]

It was a lot of fun to watch the Model X review, though as others stated here it did seem a bit neutered and restrained from their normal more wackiness.

I like Clarkson, Hammond, and May. I can understand how people can hate them but honestly the whole show is for fun, and a lot of people don't understand their/British humor will obviously have a lot harder of a time enjoying it. I get that but I try not to take them seriously, and I mean, how funny was it of them to take a bunch of old Jaguars and try to sell them on the luxury, their reliability, and their high end performance (/sarcasm). It can be enjoyable if you're not wound up tighter than a cramped hammy.

Tesla IMO came off as petty and (I have said this before in the few comments on this blog) very much how Trump would behave in a similar situation in regards to the roadster. Sure, some of it might be a bit overblown for the sake of argument the GT does that to like everything. It's just the name of the game.

I love Tesla, I like Elon, and I want both to succeed, but you got to admit, there are worthy criticisms of both, and missed production schedules, over promising and under delivery of practically everything leaves them very open to it. There are still not unreasonable limitations with electric cars (though many positives that assuage those like supercharging, ability to charge at home, etc), and a show that is based on picking apart any flaw of a vehicle is going to do that and do it in spades (see the Alfa Romero SUV review, having to literally abandon it for a Ford F150 because it doesn't have a tow hitch and making fun of that).

People need to take a deep breath, accept that people can GASP make fun of something, and realize that at the end of the day letting someone poke a bit of fun at something and then being done with it leads to less issues that blowing up and freaking out just because your precious Tesla is poked fun at just a bit. Which I find ironic, given the amount of nitpickiness people "in the club" here express being upset about this that or the other thing about their Tesla (no heated steering wheel in the 3? Alcantra gone! RIOT).

 

[bhzmark]

accept that people can GASP make fun of something

Staging a fake battery failure and pushing the car isn't making fun. It's deception and morally and journalistically wrong. They should have been tortured and burdened by a good faith law suit exploring legal remedies even if in the end they hid behind satire standards as legal cover for their deception and fakery.

Seems like he learned his lesson and gave a more than fair review. I hope Tesla accepts this peace offering.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Given that it was a SUV challenge, I'm a bit disappointed they didn't use the X in the same. The X would've easily handled 2-3 of those dogs with the 3rd row folded. Easily towed a boat, and probably would've done pretty well on the track based on their track lap time, and probably would've done decently on those trails.

I think that's the shame. They won't treat Tesla like the others now. The medium-sized SUV test simply tore into the cars in a way that would have risked Tesla suing again had Model X taken part (like pretty much every TG/GT test does with any car from any maker). So everyone loses, we get a separate silk-glove test... instead of seeing how Model X would have handled boat-trailer pulling up a mountain, fitting dogs while closing the trunk, driving in sand etc.

It was a lot of fun to watch the Model X review, though as others stated here it did seem a bit neutered and restrained from their normal more wackiness.

I like Clarkson, Hammond, and May. I can understand how people can hate them but honestly the whole show is for fun, and a lot of people don't understand their/British humor will obviously have a lot harder of a time enjoying it. I get that but I try not to take them seriously, and I mean, how funny was it of them to take a bunch of old Jaguars and try to sell them on the luxury, their reliability, and their high end performance (/sarcasm). It can be enjoyable if you're not wound up tighter than a cramped hammy.

Tesla IMO came off as petty and (I have said this before in the few comments on this blog) very much how Trump would behave in a similar situation in regards to the roadster. Sure, some of it might be a bit overblown for the sake of argument the GT does that to like everything. It's just the name of the game.

I love Tesla, I like Elon, and I want both to succeed, but you got to admit, there are worthy criticisms of both, and missed production schedules, over promising and under delivery of practically everything leaves them very open to it. There are still not unreasonable limitations with electric cars (though many positives that assuage those like supercharging, ability to charge at home, etc), and a show that is based on picking apart any flaw of a vehicle is going to do that and do it in spades (see the Alfa Romero SUV review, having to literally abandon it for a Ford F150 because it doesn't have a tow hitch and making fun of that).

People need to take a deep breath, accept that people can GASP make fun of something, and realize that at the end of the day letting someone poke a bit of fun at something and then being done with it leads to less issues that blowing up and freaking out just because your precious Tesla is poked fun at just a bit. Which I find ironic, given the amount of nitpickiness people "in the club" here express being upset about this that or the other thing about their Tesla (no heated steering wheel in the 3? Alcantra gone! RIOT).

100% agreed. I think you're a Good Horse.

 

[bxr140]

Watched the latest GT episode. The SUV bit was right in their lane...which is undeniably less entertaining than TG and the days of yore, but at least still amusing enough for me to watch...while multitasking other life activities...

The X review was soft and frustratingly in the slow lane. Thank the stupid tesla lawsuit for that. Dumbest thing they've ever done and probably at the top of the list of single events that set them back as a company. And that’s saying a lot....

 

[bhzmark]

Thank the stupid tesla lawsuit for that. Dumbest thing they've ever done and probably at the top of the list of single events that set them back as a company. And that’s saying a lot....

Totally wrong. Dead wrong. When someone defames you with fake staged deceptions, you better sue them, even if ultimately you are denied a legal remedy you send the message to people to not lie and fake things or they will pay.

If Tesla had not sued Top Gear, and not gone after NYT when they did something similar, they may have gotten more fake reporting staging nonsense and confusing potential customers.

 

[Electroman]

I didn't see the original fake TG review of the Roadster, but the NYT Broader guy really deserved all the brickbats he received for his dishonesty.

 

[bxr140]

Totally wrong. Dead wrong. When someone defames you with fake staged deceptions, you better sue them, even if ultimately you are denied a legal remedy you send the message to people to not lie and fake things or they will pay.

Nope. Suing top gear showed a serious lack of humor and painted a major black eye on tesla as a company. It alienated many—especially in the car enthusiast world—and limited the amount of otherwise free press in the subsequent years.

Worst thing Elon ever did for tesla.

...and not gone after NYT when they did something similar, they may have gotten more fake reporting staging nonsense and confusing potential customers.

Well played, but your conflation here is invalid. NYT was a hit piece described as a car review. The TG bit was on a show made by clowns that’s supposed to make people laugh; there was absolutely nothing different in the TG review than any other car they review.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I've been discussing cultural issues. On one corner something was lost on the way from Cotwolds to California.

However, I think a bigger issue may be that a number of actual attacks on Tesla in the early days made them and many of their early followers wary and defensive in a way that even benign events get painted with darker shades than they individually deserved. Top Gear definitely was a benign event.

An unfortunate accident of history.

 

[bhzmark]

The TG bit was on a show made by clowns that’s supposed to make people laugh; there was absolutely nothing different in the TG review than any other car they review.

This shows you don't even know what you are referring to. did you see the relevant parts of the show? If you had you wouldn't represent the show as "supposed to make people laugh"

Top Gear misrepresented that:

1. The Roadster ran out of charge and had to be pushed into the Top Gear hangar by 4 men.
2. The Roadster’s true range is only 55 miles per charge (not 211).
3. One Roadster’s motor overheated and was completely immobilized as a result.
4. The other Roadster’s brakes were broken, rendering the car undriveable.
5. That neither of the two Roadsters provided to Top Gear was available for test driving due to these problems.

The breakdowns were staged and the statements are untrue. Yet the programme’s lies are repeatedly and consistently re-broadcast to hundreds of millions of viewers worldwide on BBC television and web sites, and on other TV channels via syndication; the show is available on the internet, and is for sale on Top Gear DVD’s around the world.

Tesla wants people to know the truth, and correct the public’s misperceptions. The Roadster and its EV technology, as well as EVs generally, have been unfairly and viciously maligned by Top Gear.

Tesla simply wants Top Gear to stop rebroadcasting this malicious episode and to correct the record, but they’ve repeatedly ignored Tesla’s requests.

from: Tesla vs. Top Gear

It was not humor. It was scripted intentional deception and fakery with serious harm and consequences to a company on the edge. It could have killed Tesla.

Also the fact that Clarkson now did a very favorable review, totally out of his style, was probably due precisely to the law suit and fear of faking controversy for humor or drama.

It was a good business decision for Tesla to sue TG, to put him through discovery and get the facts out, and show that they pursue people who defame them, even if uninformed people on the internet don't get it.

 

[pete8314]

I watched the review a second time the other day with my wife. Although it's a 'soft' review, I honestly believe this is as close to an olive branch as you'll ever see from Clarkson. Although it's almost certain partly due to commercial realities (the show is, allegedly, one of Amazon's top 3 shows, and they simply cannot ignore Tesla any longer), Clarkson genuinely seemed to love the car. As I said above, I don't recall him ever applauding a car after a drag/0-100. He even sold some of the technology that's already present on many other cars, he didn't have to do that.

I know a lot of people don't like the show, but a lot do. It was the BBC's top export, by a mile, and I'm sure Amazon are doing just fine as well. I think this is the start of us seeing Tesla's feature in more of their comparison pieces, but the first appearance had to be something more like this.

 

[Kutu]

Clarkson is a colossal jerk!! --I think I watch, and enjoy, the show because I've never grown up.

PS: If you haven't grown up by 70, then you don't have to; and you don't have to make excuses!!

 

[bxr140]

This shows you don't even know what you are referring to.

LOL

You’ve never actually watched an episode of top gear, have you?

 

[bhzmark]

LOL

You’ve never actually watched an episode of top gear, have you?

I was referring to the specific episode at issue. I was not, as you are, referring to TG in general to draw uninformed conclusions about the facts of the specific Tesla Roadster episode.

 

[Krazaak]

I've been a fan of the trio on Top Gear and now on Grand Tour. They're usually entertaining, although they do at times stray too far into the idiotic. One of my biggest criticisms of TG: USA and TG post Clarkson and crew, is that they don't pull off being idiotic without looking like they're trying to be idiots.

Both shows are definitely entertainment though. I do think there should be a certain amount of responsibility on their part to not unfairly malign a car brand. I don't see any issue with pointing out that the Roadster would only get 55 miles per charge on their track, but the reality is that no ICE is going to get anywhere near its hwy mileage rating on a track either. 55 miles isn't exactly horrible, I'm not sure my V10 M6 would have done much better. I take a little more issue with them claiming the cars broke while testing though if that isn't true. Watching Clarkson throw a wheel off a Hennessy VelociRaptor because he was driving it like an idiot is amusing, because it should be fairly obvious the real problem was sitting behind the steering wheel. Scripting a breakdown though is a bigger deal, because you're unfairly implying the failure was with the equipment.

I think the end issue is that if your potential investors are concerned about vehicle failures scripted on a motor vehicle enthusiast's TV program, you've got to do something to protect your companies reputation. Winning or losing that suit is irrelevant as long as the scripted nature of the failures isn't disputed in the verdict.

 

[Bad Horse]

I think the end issue is that if your potential investors are concerned about vehicle failures scripted on a motor vehicle enthusiast's TV program, you've got to do something to protect your companies reputation. Winning or losing that suit is irrelevant as long as the scripted nature of the failures isn't disputed in the verdict.

This would be the fairest take from the "other side" I am alright with. I can understand Tesla being pissed (and as you pointed out the 55 miles on a track is probably actually realistically what it got, would've been nice if they had mentioned that it was due to crazy fast speeds and acceleration, and 200 miles is probably reasonable for "normal" driving") about the way it was presented, the thing I guess I don't get getting so up in arms about is that everyone who objectively looks at Top Gear/Grand Tour knows it's scripted, knows their chief MO is being hypercritical, and that sometimes it can come off a grating.

I would I suppose agree with suing in the sense of "saving face," so if Tesla/Elon felt hat was the best option then ok. But I guess I have seen too many times the trio doing this kind of stuff as part of the show for other car brands, and I don't see Kia coming down from on high to dispute how not bad the Kia Soul is.

 

[NCAviator]

So the real question is why the Brits on BBC got TG and the Americans on PBS got Motor Week? Both subsidized by tax $.

For me on GT, I love the photography. Love the 4K HDR. It is nice to see the Celebrity Car spot get back to a good thing. What is not to like seeing Paris Hilton and Rory Mcilroy.

The guys are getting old, but they got their chemistry to work. There was no reason that those 3 should have done as well as they have. JC is a jerk, RH is the fool, JM is the straight person.

Anyone who views their reviews as real reviews is crazy. People tune in to see the skits, the trips, and the challenges.

TG now in all its forms is not the same. People should not try and repeat the GT cast model.

 

[pete8314]

Technically BBC's Top Gear (then, and now) was paid for via the TV licence, so yeah, it's sort of a tax, but not in the same sense as PBS. But, Top Gear more than paid for itself via BBC Worldwide (the commercial arm), and the licencing rights. Remember, back in the day the original Top Gear was a real review show, with starchy, dull presenters, reviewing very dull car and other motoring issues. Clarkson joined in the late 80s, and a host of other well-known (in the UK) presenters cane and went, including Clarkson, who left in 99, prior to the show being cancelled in 2001, and then being re-launched in it's current format a year later, under Andy Wilman.

Like many things BBC, there's a long back-story to how this show got to where it is today, but it started over 40 years ago.

I'd still take today's format (both Top Gear, and Grand Tour) over the original, a lot of people that know far more about videography than I do constant cite Top Gear, now Grand Tour, as one of the finest examples, which when at the BBC, was no mean feat with very limited budget and resources.

 

[Bad Horse]

So the real question is why the Brits on BBC got TG and the Americans on PBS got Motor Week? Both subsidized by tax $.

For me on GT, I love the photography. Love the 4K HDR. It is nice to see the Celebrity Car spot get back to a good thing. What is not to like seeing Paris Hilton and Rory Mcilroy.

The guys are getting old, but they got their chemistry to work. There was no reason that those 3 should have done as well as they have. JC is a jerk, RH is the fool, JM is the straight person.

Anyone who views their reviews as real reviews is crazy. People tune in to see the skits, the trips, and the challenges.

TG now in all its forms is not the same. People should not try and repeat the GT cast model.

I agree with all of this. The filming is easily the most impressive part, it is mindblowingly good. I love the challenges they engage in, a lot of it can be a bit contorted but their season 1 trip through Namibia was impressive and such a fun watch regardless.

I was laughing and cringing at Paris Hilton being on the latest episode, it was like both Rory and Clarkson were trying their best to not be uncomfortable with her being there and silently failing.

Agree on the 3 personas, but I think that's what works well for them, it is a good chemistry and for whatever reason, Clarkson's asshole tendencies, Hammond being a bit crazy and May being way too straightlaced just works.

 

[bxr140]

I was referring to the specific episode at issue. I was not, as you are, referring to TG in general to draw uninformed conclusions about the facts of the specific Tesla Roadster episode.

That you separate the two illustrates my point more eloquently than I ever could with words.

There was never any doubt in anyone’s mind that TG was a scripted show with staged, fake scenarios, for the sole purpose of entertainment, notably classic dry British humor and slapstick. The content of the roadster bit was no different than any other bit on that show. Only a fool would try to fight stupidity with fact and logic. History doesn’t lie; tesla came out looking the fool to everyone except some existing tesla fans who were already on the tesla train. That’s the epitome of terrible PR: appeal to your diehard base.

That roadster bit turned nobody of any consequence off from Tesla. The lawsuit did. That’s net WAY negative.