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The "Is Tesla Going Bankrupt?" thread

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thanks for a plain answer! it was what i suspected, but not what i was hoping for. got to keep an eye on the development then.

This is what I found on the internet:

Recovery on Customer Deposits

Bankruptcy Code Section 507(a)(7) establishes apriority for unsecured claims of individuals arising from Customer Deposits towards the purchase of goods that were not delivered up to a maximum of $2,600. The remaining portion of the un-refunded deposit would become a general unsecured claim. Consumers owed deposits are only paid after all of the secured creditors and administrative expenses of the bankruptcy (such as bankruptcy lawyers’ fees) are paid. As priority creditors, holders of deposits would be paid up to $2,600 before any general unsecured obligations of the retailer are satisfied.
 
Worse would be no warranty on cars that are known to need love from the service center on a regular basis.
Oh ye of little faith...........
Our 2015 has been rock steady for over 22,000 miles and it does get allot of love, tough love!.
So much for needing a SC as you implied.
Also, Tesla is much more than a car company and as such, I would expect that they will have other avenues at their disposal in which to stay solvent.
What really amazes me more about such worries about Tesla's demise, is the amount of negativity which promotes it.
If the truth be known, Tesla's success is more important than it's failure. Show me one company that is more concerned about the future, than Tesla. That future is where we will be living and Tesla's products are a positive step.
Remember, it is always easier to be positive than it is to be negative, you may have to work it a bit :)
 

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That's a nice cherry you've picked. Let's also not forget that the share price 5 years ago was ~$40, about 15% of today's close.

I don’t disagree. My point was simple, you can pick points in time where the stock was higher or lower. It’s not only an upward trend. There will be people sitting on paper loses who bought back then as well as those sitting with profits. You can cherry pick ‘haven’t I done well’ and a ‘I’m sitting on losses’ - don”t let either fool you as being the only story. Let’s also not forget people saw $300 as a great buying opportunity only a few months ago, they’re 10% down right now.
 
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I suspect there would be a scramble to buy Tesla if the company went bankrupt.

- Large EV customer base with strong loyalty.

- Strong product reputation.

- The global SuperCharger network would be a formidable advantage for any manufacturer seeking to dominate the electric vehicle market. Or a strong foundation for anyone seeking to be this century's "Standard Oil."

- Field-proven battery, motor, control and integration technology and skill. Again, a big step ahead for nearly any vehicle manufacturer. Don't underestimate the time and effort required to climb the learning curve. Also all the design and material lessons learned through millions of miles of vehicle use.

- Global service network with strong EV skills. Important for customer satisfaction and reputation.

This is different from nearly any other vehicle manufacturer that would go bankrupt. My SAAB turbo blew up as the company was shutting down. The dealer was eager to sell me a new one, but I couldn't imagine why any other car company would buy SAAB or want to support the fleet. Front wheel drive, turbo-charging and sporty sedans had become commodities.

Thus, I'm not worried about the future for our 2017 S 100D.
 
I don’t disagree. My point was simple, you can pick points in time where the stock was higher or lower. It’s not only an upward trend. There will be people sitting on paper loses who bought back then as well as those sitting with profits. You can cherry pick ‘haven’t I done well’ and a ‘I’m sitting on losses’ - don”t let either fool you as being the only story. Let’s also not forget people saw $300 as a great buying opportunity only a few months ago, they’re 10% down right now.

An unfortunate effect of short-term trading in a volatile stock, I suppose. Thankfully, there are only a couple of odd peaks outside the past year where the stock was higher than it is today. I think people will still be served well by buying with the intent to hold for a long time. If people don't have the stomach for volatility, TSLA is probably the worst investment to make, and those people might be better served by investing in an index fund.
 
An unfortunate effect of short-term trading in a volatile stock, I suppose. Thankfully, there are only a couple of odd peaks outside the past year where the stock was higher than it is today. I think people will still be served well by buying with the intent to hold for a long time. If people don't have the stomach for volatility, TSLA is probably the worst investment to make, and those people might be better served by investing in an index fund.
Sure, but it’s also fair to say the stock is only 25% higher than it was 4 years ago, the NASDAQ is up 70% over the same period. Whichever way you cut it, and whatever the prospects and innovation, a 44B market cap is a big number. Tesla is doing a lot of good stuff, great products, amazing following, I’d argue all of which is reflected in the share price. I’m not short or long on TSLA, I don’t short anything on principal as betting on failure is unsavoury, I’m on my second Tesla so I want the company to be successful, I’m also considering investing but I’m trying to be realistic on the price. If you look at the quarter volume prediction thread my research has led me to predict the highest MS numbers of anyone.
 
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Sure, but it’s also fair to say the stock is only 25% higher than it was 4 years ago, the NASDAQ is up 70% over the same period. Whichever way you cut it, and whatever the prospects and innovation, a 44B market cap is a big number. Tesla is doing a lot of good stuff, great products, amazing following, I’d argue all of which is reflected in the share price. I’m not short or long on TSLA, I don’t short anything on principal as betting on failure is unsavoury, I’m on my second Tesla so I want the company to be successful, I’m also considering investing but I’m trying to be realistic on the price. If you look at the quarter volume prediction thread my research has led me to predict the highest MS numbers of anyone.

Not only is betting on failure unsavory, but you can be right all day long and it doesn't matter if nobody else realizes it. The Big Short shows that very well. In addition, investing long has a theoretically unlimited upside and a limited downside (you can only lose 100%, assuming you aren't investing with margin). With shorting, you have a theoretically unlimited downside and a limited upside (you can only make 100%, and that requires the company to go to zero), plus your future isn't in your hands since your financial institution can force you to close your position at a loss if they have concerns over you being able to pay them back. I don't know why anybody does it.

I suppose it makes sense that so many of the hit pieces against Tesla are from people who are short the stock. It must be very stressful for them.
 
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I suspect there would be a scramble to buy Tesla if the company went bankrupt.

- Large EV customer base with strong loyalty.

- Strong product reputation.

- The global SuperCharger network would be a formidable advantage for any manufacturer seeking to dominate the electric vehicle market. Or a strong foundation for anyone seeking to be this century's "Standard Oil."

- Field-proven battery, motor, control and integration technology and skill. Again, a big step ahead for nearly any vehicle manufacturer. Don't underestimate the time and effort required to climb the learning curve. Also all the design and material lessons learned through millions of miles of vehicle use.

- Global service network with strong EV skills. Important for customer satisfaction and reputation.

This is different from nearly any other vehicle manufacturer that would go bankrupt. My SAAB turbo blew up as the company was shutting down. The dealer was eager to sell me a new one, but I couldn't imagine why any other car company would buy SAAB or want to support the fleet. Front wheel drive, turbo-charging and sporty sedans had become commodities.

Thus, I'm not worried about the future for our 2017 S 100D.

While I don't currently have a Tesla vehicle, I do have a M3 reservation, I only want the $35,000 version that Elon "promised" way back when. Nobody knows if/when Tesla goes bankrupt, but while I'm not worried about not getting my car, I definitely don't see a line of companies vying to buy Tesla post BK. Sure, it's a desirable company, but not without some big risks. How is the new parent company gonna take care of all the soon to fail MCU, door handles, falcon wings, drive units,.... How are they gonna have enough staff to service the cars? Anyways, all this is just speculation for discussion. Hoping it'll never come to that.
 
While I don't currently have a Tesla vehicle, I do have a M3 reservation, I only want the $35,000 version that Elon "promised" way back when. Nobody knows if/when Tesla goes bankrupt, but while I'm not worried about not getting my car, I definitely don't see a line of companies vying to buy Tesla post BK. Sure, it's a desirable company, but not without some big risks. How is the new parent company gonna take care of all the soon to fail MCU, door handles, falcon wings, drive units,.... How are they gonna have enough staff to service the cars? Anyways, all this is just speculation for discussion. Hoping it'll never come to that.

Tesla has enough employees to do so. Why couldn't the new company? They could even retain the current employees and continue business as usual.
 
I bought more shares today on the downtrend at $285, yeah not the bottom but I am terrible at timing bottoms and just have limits that if reached I buy. Have just been accumulating shares over time as a long term investor and will continue to do so when opportunity presents. I have no doubt that Tesla will continue as long as Elon is running it. I am hoping for $1k share price in 10yrs, will see :)

In 10 years, virtually every car company on the planet will be delivering cars, SUVs, minivans and pick up trucks that will compete with Tesla. They already have established production factories around the world -- nothing too build. They already have distribution. They already know how to run a car company. They will put incredible price pressure on Tesla given that currently Tesla can charge whatever they want given they have no competition. But, despite being able to charge whatever they want, they lose money on every car they sell.

So what makes you think, other than drinking the Kool-Aid that Tesla stock will be at $1,000/share in 10 years?

Have you and others bothered to sit down and really take a hard look at their financial statements? If not, it's highly recommended before you put another dollar into the company.
 
Never bet against Elon. Tesla has never looked better. I doubt there is any chance they will go bankrupt.
There are 300,000 satisfied owners out there as well as millions of supporters worldwide who believe in Elon’s mission. People power will win in the end, just look at the queue to buy a model 3, me included.

Big Oil, Big Auto, Big Media and Big Money are desperate. They see their business’s being damaged by a company that for a long time they considered a joke.
Now that the model 3 ramp is happening these groups are making one last desperate attempt to damage Tesla by trying to force down the share price and make it difficult for Tesla to borrow money.

This just won’t work, Tesla products are just too Good.
 
In 10 years, virtually every car company on the planet will be delivering cars, SUVs, minivans and pick up trucks that will compete with Tesla. They already have established production factories around the world -- nothing too build. They already have distribution. They already know how to run a car company. They will put incredible price pressure on Tesla given that currently Tesla can charge whatever they want given they have no competition. But, despite being able to charge whatever they want, they lose money on every car they sell.

So what makes you think, other than drinking the Kool-Aid that Tesla stock will be at $1,000/share in 10 years?

Have you and others bothered to sit down and really take a hard look at their financial statements? If not, it's highly recommended before you put another dollar into the company.


Simple answer really, Tesla is more than a car company, it is also an energy and solar company and maybe a ridesharing company as well if things pan out. My bet is not on cars alone but the total picture of what Tesla is trying to do, since I fully believe in their goals I am unbothered going all in. I would actually love for the other car companies to make good on their vaporware and start putting out good electric products that people can buy. If I am wrong and my investment in Tesla is for naught and my money poofs into smoke then so be it, I am young and will always make more money. If I am right though, well then I should make a pretty penny from the holdings I have in Tesla if I can ever bring myself to sell it. Time will tell, so going to keep watching the show in the meantime and keep my bet on Tesla's success.
 
Tesla is a 10-year play. It has potential in four major industry segments (autos, industrial equipment, energy and transportation). The auto/truck business could reach 10% market share and earn margins twice that of Toyota, making it worth $350 billion alone. The industrial battery business could rival GE’s power generation business. The solar and ridesharing initiatives are wild cards at this point but they have potential to expand Tesla’s market share in autos/trucks by appealing to customers who wouldn’t normally consider going electric.

Don’t know my exact cost but all of my shares were purchased prior to 2012.


I'd add a 5th, construction. Solar roof tiles have the potential to replace shingle, clay and concrete tiles. Every new housing, renovation or extension project needs roofing and always will.
 
Faraday Future is another startup with heavy infrastructure needs. Why aren't those needs being met?

Point is that a startup needing funds doesn't mean they will automatically get those funds. Anyone who has watched Shark-tank knows that investors need to determine whether the money thrown at the startup will payoff or be wasted through mismanagement. A good idea alone isn't worth much. It's about EXECUTION.

There is a strong case to be made now that Tesla has poor execution, thanks to the botched Model 3 ramp and various reports about chronic quality-control issues in and out of the factory (something that was already harming the brand prior to the 3).

Once a company has been given a lot of money and appears to have squandered it this way, it discourages investors from throwing good money after bad.
Cant agree that M3 is Botched. When building a new plant, a new car, new hires...everything new, and you slow down a bit to keep quality high...That is NOT a botch but good execution.
 
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In 10 years, virtually every car company on the planet will be delivering cars, SUVs, minivans and pick up trucks that will compete with Tesla. They already have established production factories around the world -- nothing too build.

This is an inaccurate picture of automotive production. It is true that some production hardware can be re-used. Body panel stamping is probably the most obvious example.

However, much of the other hardware used to build gasoline engines and transmissions is just dead weight. Honda can’t simply switch its K-series engine plants to PM electric motors. The clean rooms used to make CVTs become useless.

New production lines have to be built to make electric motors, batteries, and inverters. Workers have to be re-trained.


They already have distribution. They already know how to run a car company. They will put incredible price pressure on Tesla given that currently Tesla can charge whatever they want given they have no competition. But, despite being able to charge whatever they want, they lose money on every car they sell.

Tesla actually can’t charge “whatever they want”. The pricing of Model 3, for example, is roughly equivalent to what German luxury brands charge for their smaller sport sedans.

Also, Tesla “loses money” because of R&D costs and partly because of expansion.


Have you and others bothered to sit down and really take a hard look at their financial statements? If not, it's highly recommended before you put another dollar into the company.

It’s not hard to understand how Tesla works from a financial standpoint. The basic model is: Demonstrate product generation X, use sales of product generation X to get the financial markets to fund generation X+1 products through a combination of equity and debt offerings. Repeat with each successive generation, until sales of product can sustain the company without the need for outside funds.

This is all very obvious from the cash flow statements in Tesla’s filings. The Billions of $ spent on R&D and manufacturing facilities are financed through periodic equity and debt offerings. Products like Model S and X bring in some cash to cover some R&D and SG&A, but would by themselves not support rapid expansion. They are “demonstrator” products to show potential to win support for new investment.


So what makes you think, other than drinking the Kool-Aid that Tesla stock will be at $1,000/share in 10 years?

Implying that people here are stupid (the “Kool Aid” reference) is unnecessarily hostile/insulting.

Nothing makes me think that Tesla “will” be at $1000/share. Uncertainty is part of investing. The certainty of “will happen” has sunk many investors. It’s a gamble that Tesla can manufacture product much more effectively than others in the long run and I make no pronouncement other than that this is a gamble.

Invest in TSLA only what you can afford to lose. That’s my advice, which has not changed since joining the forum here.