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The last straw

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by flashflood, Oct 13, 2016.

  1. flashflood

    flashflood Member

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    I've been a happy owner of a P85 since June 26, 2014.

    When the P100D was announced, I decided it was finally time to upgrade, and pulled the trigger.

    My P100D would have been one of the first 5 delivered, but I ended up having to refuse delivery because of severe defects (including hair under the clearcoat and a crack in the windshield). Strike 1.

    Tesla agreed to build a new vehicle (different VIN) ASAP. I took delivery this time, but quickly discovered several more significant defects. Strike 2.

    Due to all the problems with the first vehicle, the VP of North American sales promised to waive the doc fee and provide three years of service for free. Neither of those promises materialized. Strike 3.

    Tesla agreed to repair all of the problems with the second P100D, returned it to my house tonight -- and it still isn't right. That's strike 4.

    So, at this point, I'm just done. I told them I want my P85 back, with 7.1 firmware, and a full refund.

    Tomorrow I'm selling my TSLA stock as well. I have lost all faith in the ability of this company to execute at scale. I love the drive train, love the vision, love my P85 -- but I'm just not willing to subsidize failure anymore. The P100D is performance beast attached to a Chrysler K-car. The quality is just ridiculously poor, and frankly insulting at $156,000.
     
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  2. HumanGenome

    HumanGenome Member

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    What specifically did you have problems with the second time?
     
  3. flashflood

    flashflood Member

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    The biggest issue was described here:

    https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/1760757

    The service invoice said that it was paint overspray on all the glass, which they attempted to remedy by clay bar cleaning. It did help, but didn't come close to restoring the glass to factory-new condition. When you pay $156,000 for a new car, you expect a virgin car, not a damaged one that's been incompletely repaired.

    I want Tesla to succeed, but they won't if their staunchest supporters don't hold them accountable. When the Model 3 launches, the kinds of QA problems we're all accustomed to will be fatal. I hope that returning a second defective P100D and not ordering a third will induce some needed introspection, and change. In any case, I don't want to own the vehicles Tesla is currently making. My 2014 P85 remains a great car.
     
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  4. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    That's pretty awful I must admit - especially at the price point. Can you show us a pic of that invoice? I don't want to be "that guy" who doesn't believe you, but I am having trouble wrapping my head around you getting a new $156K car with paint on the windshield - let alone hair under the clearcoat and a cracked windshield.

    I know Tesla has had quality control problems but what you are describing sounds ludicrous. Do you have pictures of the hair and the cracked windshield?

    Then you're telling us that the person in charge of all North American sales made you a promise and did not follow through? What's the story there?

    What is not right about the car they just returned to your house tonight? What are your "strike 2" defects? You haven't told us what they were.

    I don't think you're lying but you're making some serious accusations of real incompetence on Tesla's part and it's reasonable to ask you to back it up with more evidence than one picture of a dirty windshield in that other thread.

    This isn't a hostile post, please don't take it that way.
     
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  5. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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  6. calisnow

    calisnow Active Member

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    #6 calisnow, Oct 14, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2016
    My guess on the Model 3 is that it will launch with Level 3 or 4 autonomy - some kind of autonomy years ahead of anyone else at the price point, and owners are going to be forgiving of all the cosmetic quality problems we deal with on our Model S's because the autonomous driving will blow away anything - heck, the best competition on the market isn't anywhere near matching Autopilot 1.0, let alone 2.0.

    That is my guess as to what is going to happen - I could be wrong. For $35K I'll tolerate a hair in my clear coat if my car drives itself.

    At $156K I feel your pain - there is no excuse for delivering a cracked windshield, hair under the clear and overspray anywhere on the car.

    But on the other hand I've owned a number of really high dollar cars, and they have all had significantly worse mechanical problems than my Tesla (which has had zero in 15K miles, knock on wood). The relatively minor cosmetic issues I deal with (a bit of chrome trim that is not in line with another piece, for example) are nothing compared to an inaccessible vacuum line going out on a Bentley GT, requiring removal of the engine to access. Multiple trips to Benz to fix mysterious supercharger whine on an AMG - etc, etc etc.

    Personally I think we have become so spoiled by our autopilot and what are mechanically very reliable cars that we are getting enraged at cosmetic issues.
     
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  7. flashflood

    flashflood Member

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    Yes. I'm assuming no ill intent on his part, just the usual Tesla confusion and failure to execute. I haven't even had the same point of contact troughout this process -- I'm probably up to a dozen different Tesla employees by now. All very nice people, all wanting to make things right. Yet here I still am.
     
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  8. Neohippy

    Neohippy Member

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    These are the stories that keep appearing lately that are making me hesitant on keeping my M3 order. 90% of the members here say I'm wrong and the issues are far and few between. I have seen four P100 owners post issues and there are not many on the road. Also this is the top of he line car.
     
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  9. flashflood

    flashflood Member

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    You may recall that Consumer Reports gave the Model S their highest car rating ever. Then, about a year later, they withdrew their recommendation entirely due to quality problems. At the time I hoped they were just overreacting, but combining CR with what I read here daily, I'm reluctantly accepting the truth. CR's reputation is well earned, and whereas all we have here are anecdotes, they have data.
     
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  10. bro1999

    bro1999 Member

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    I applaud OP for sticking to their guns and not settling to take a flawed vehicle (especially X's) which is what I've seen other owners do. Tesla shouldn't get a free pass just because they're Tesla. Need to be held accountable like any other manufacturer.
     
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  11. HumanGenome

    HumanGenome Member

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    The doc fee ($1200) and 3 years of free service coupled with actually trying to implement workaround solutions before getting a third factory new vehicle seams quite reasonable (that's essentially 1-2 months of loan payments for 1 month of headache) It may take some time and you got a couple of bad eggs but they are putting in effort to correct it. This has been a few weeks to a month I would assume? (I don't think there were any P100D deliveries earlier than that) I think you need to get comfy in your loaner and refuse delivery of anything they hand to you until you comb it over 100%.
     
  12. electracity

    electracity Active Member

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    You can choose when to execute your model 3 order. So unless you have a problem with Tesla holding your deposit, I suggest you not cancel.

    The problems experienced by the OP suggests that a fast model 3 ramp is impossible. So any model 3 reservation holder without queue priority likely won't have the opportunity to buy the car for several years. You might regret canceling.
     
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  13. aesculus

    aesculus Still Trying to Figure this All Out

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    A clay bar is not the way to remove the clear coat over-spray. They should take it to a professional high end painter to have the car dealt with properly.

    I suspect the car needed some touch-up on the hood and they did a poor job masking it before painting if it truly is over-spray. Absolutely no excuse for that. You can test that idea by looking at the trim around the windshield. It should have the same coating on it. If not, this is something that was applied at the glass manufacture.

    You might want to push them to pay for a complete paint detail and full body wrap if you trust the rest of the car, which sounds doubtful at this point.

    While I feel your pain your stories are nothing compared to the first six months of Model X production.
     
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  14. robski

    robski Member

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    On the bright side, a few folks will be proud owners of heavily discounted inventory cars with slightly hairly clearcoats. The downside is it reinforces the ability to get away with these QA issues and takes buyers through an emotional rollercoaster (euphoria -> headache).

    My gut says 500k Model 3 owners won't be so patient.

    BTW, congrats on the 100 but sorry for your pain.
     
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  15. bonaire

    bonaire Active Member

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    They paint it while there is glass installed? I would think that body is painted, guts installed and near the end, glass gets added.
     
  16. JohnSnowNW

    JohnSnowNW Active Member

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    I'm confused as to how someone doesn't follow through on something that you haven't had to use...?
     
  17. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

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    #17 Canuck, Oct 15, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2016
    Maybe just a bit of an exaggeration? I understand your frustration but taking your complaints to the extreme doesn't help your case.

    They still might. There are more than a few very large and successful companies who are not held to account in worse ways than Tesla's quality control issue. Do you remember the quality of the Microsoft's DOS/Windows products? The problem was no competition (back then) which allowed inferior and problem ridden products to dominate. The same can happen with Tesla.

    I doubt it. The concept itself is just too good despite problems in some aspects of execution.

    Please don't get me wrong, I'm not excusing Tesla for your problems, which certainly have merit, I'm just providing some counter arguments perhaps to justify why I am still long on TSLA.
     
  18. jeffro01

    jeffro01 Active Member

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    My only response... LOL...

    Jeff
     
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  19. flashflood

    flashflood Member

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    Right, which suggests there was some sort of post-production touch-up work as @aesculus noted above.
     
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  20. flashflood

    flashflood Member

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    Now that the new AP suite has been announced, I have a theory. Maybe they had to change the body tooling just slightly to create openings for the cameras, so they were building the final cars of Q3 with all remaining inventory parts, some of which were damaged during production and had to be repaired. That would explain the multiple reports of paint over-spray all of a sudden.

    At this point I'm just happy to be getting my old P85 back on Friday. As cool as the new tech is, it seems unlikely that the new sensors and computing platform will be flawless in the .0 release. The earliest I'd consider ordering a *third* P100D would be Q1, and only if it appears that quality returns to at least "Tesla normal" during Q4 and AP 2.0 isn't a disaster. I wish them the best, but nevertheless need some time to lick my wounds...
     
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