TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

The latest drive unit explanation

Discussion in 'Model S' started by JRP3, Nov 4, 2015.

  1. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    10,129
    Location:
    Central New York
    From the conference call:

    I don't know if that was referring to the Norway issue or another more recent problem.
     
  2. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,887
    Location:
    NoVa
    How many likes does it take to get the center of a Tootsie Pop?
     
  3. supratachophobia

    supratachophobia Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Messages:
    1,998
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    So it seems like that's just another casual brush off, like drive unit issues are this blip on the radar. When the user feedback, at least on here, seems to be trending not if you will have drive unit issues but when. If it was just a matter of filling up the internals with the proper amount of fluid, why go through A-M number of revisions? I still believe that dual motor chassis are their way to reduce overall stress on a single drive unit and get the car to 200k miles where a failure/issue with either of them would be reasonable to expect.
     
  4. ArtInCT

    ArtInCT Always Learning

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,607
    Location:
    Southern Connecticut
    I recall Elon saying..." We are very happy with the quality of the new drive units - over the last several months quality is excellent"... not a direct quote but that was the message. You got the spline grease info above. Thanks JRP3.
     
  5. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2012
    Messages:
    4,454
    Location:
    WPB Florida
    I too caught the latest drive units are great comment. Normally when there are so many likes in a sentence from someone as straight forward as Elon, the person is searching for words that contain grains of truth while simultaneously avoiding putting their foot into their mouths (from personal experience, my feet do not taste good).
     
  6. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    10,129
    Location:
    Central New York
  7. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2008
    Messages:
    2,817
    That quote explains the clunk, but what about the milling noise? Like posted above Elon is trying to skirt around the issue, granted it's just noise and not catastrophic failures in most cases.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The spline can't be wet, because the rotor shaft is water cooled.
     
  8. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,711
    Location:
    Buckeye, AZ
    Elon also stated that they have changed their internal goal from a 200,000 mile drive unit to a million mile drive unit.

    Next question... do any of you care that your drive units are internally rated by Tesla for only 200,000 miles? What about all of the talk about electric motors being far less complicated than an ICE engine, less moving parts, more reliable, etc., yet the DUs in circulation today will only last 200,000 miles? Seems like a low number to me. Anything to be concerned about?
     
  9. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2007
    Messages:
    10,129
    Location:
    Central New York
    The transaxle/differential is still subject to wear and tear over time, just as in any vehicle. Also a 200K rating doesn't mean it's going to stop working at 200K.
     
  10. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,711
    Location:
    Buckeye, AZ
    Well, it certainly implies it very strongly to me, anyway! :)
     
  11. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,887
    Location:
    NoVa
    #11 Max*, Nov 4, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2015
    I care. I plan to keep the car for 8-10 years, that should put me close to 200k miles when I'm done with my Model S (we do about 20k miles a year, and have been doing more with the Tesla for whatever reason).

    If that means the cost to fix/swap the DU after the warranty expires will be half the cost of the car, then that'll tank my resale value.

    Now if my DU goes bad between now and then, and they swap it even once in the next 7.5 years, the 200k rating doesn't bother me one bit.

    ETA: I agree with the poster above, if the MTBF is rated at 200k miles, that means it could last a lot longer than that.

    ETA2: I'm assuming catastrophic failure, not service at 200k miles. If it's just a "tune-up" at 200k, then I don't care.
     
  12. anticitizen13.7

    anticitizen13.7 Enemy of the Status Quo

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,558
    Location:
    United States
    I have owned nothing but Hondas. Honda warranties its powertrains for 5 years 60k miles, but I have heard through unofficial channels that the design target is 10 years 150,000 miles before repairs are needed. A design target of 200,000 miles before service is perfectly acceptable to me.
     
  13. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,711
    Location:
    Buckeye, AZ
    Thanks, there was no reference in the call if 200,000 was a MTBF number. Elon said "last 200,000 miles" and "last a million miles" based on what I heard during the call, but those aren't exact quotes. This is unfamiliar territory for me. If others aren't concerned, I probably won't worry about it.
     
  14. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,913
    Location:
    florida.
    it appears that the two issues are being conflated, and the milling/cicada sounds issue appears not to have been commented on
     
  15. radinator

    radinator Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2012
    Messages:
    94
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    I've been through at least 4 drive units, and the current one is exhibiting the same grinding/whining/milling noise the prior 4 did. I appreciate the fact that Tesla has replaced each one with no cost to me except for time. I've been told that it appears to be a bearing design issue, whatever that means. They were testing out the new drive units and I am supposed to get contacted once they start shipping them. This has been the only issue I've had with the car, and I really hope they address it as I would like to keep the car for at least 8-10 years as I've done with my last 3 cars.
     
  16. Vitold

    Vitold Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2015
    Messages:
    990
    Location:
    NM

    P85?
     
  17. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    15,487
    Please report back on the new drive unit once you get some miles on it. Would love to hear confirmation of progress here.
     
  18. David99

    David99 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2014
    Messages:
    2,058
    Location:
    Brea, Orange County
    Tesla's 8 year unlimited miles warranty is pretty amazing, so I'm not too worried about the DU. Others give 5 years and 60k miles limited. I'd be out of warranty on my drive train already with them. With my Model S I'm still covered for many years no matter how much I drive.
    But a warranty is just a trust mechanism. Having issues with a car even under warranty makes you nervous about the quality of the car. I had my DU replaced 4 times. All under warranty and at no cost to me. Always received great service. But if I weren't a hard core believer in EVs and supporting Tesla for their amazing efforts, I don't know if I would be pleased with my car right now.
     
  19. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2012
    Messages:
    4,454
    Location:
    WPB Florida
    The solace I am taking away from the whole exercise is that this is Tesla's first drive unit, they will learn and it will be better moving forward. I'll keep this in mind all the way to the service center next week as I drop my wife's car off for a DU swap.
     
  20. electracity

    electracity Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2015
    Messages:
    1,797
    Location:
    60606
    If Tesla is like SpaceX, it is pretty much a bunch of twenty something engineers making it up as they go along. This sometimes produces progress. Sometimes stuff blows up.
     

Share This Page