The logic behind over the air upgrades?

[Topher]

It's cheaper to make one configuration than two.

How much cheaper?

They already have a battery shortage

So having some batteries hauled around unused, decreasing the range of the car, and increasing the cost of the car without increasing the price makes sense?

Thank you kindly.

 

[JeffK]

A coworker has a car that just got out of warranty and he just had an issue where it wouldnt start. dealership found the issue was a software update needed to me made to fix the issue. $250 later his car is updated. dont forget the towing fee of $50. i for one would like my car to be fixed over the air rather than having to take it to a shop to just do software upgrade

If this is true then this is such bull. Why is it your friend's fault there's a problem with the software? (unless he hasn't brought it to the dealer in a long time).

 

[Tiberius]

How much cheaper?



So having some batteries hauled around unused, decreasing the range of the car, and increasing the cost of the car without increasing the price makes sense?

Thank you kindly.

Cheaper in general.

And yes it makes perfect sense if you look at the big picture. Why else would they be doing it with the model S?

 

[Topher]

Cheaper in general.

And yes it makes perfect sense if you look at the big picture. Why else would they be doing it with the model S?

'Cheaper in general' says exactly nothing. If it saves a dollar it is stupid, if it saves $10,000 it is a no brainer.

The big picture looks stupid to me, if you think it makes sense explain it. Do you expect them to make air shocks a software upgrade, upgraded stereo, pano roof?

Thank you kindly.

 

[Genshi]

I've heard this a lot and frankly I don't understand it. A $4,000 price drop barely moves the needle in the overall cost equation on a $70k car.

Some of this has been covered, but there are several things at play here.

1. The "sale" psychology.
2. Anyone looking for a full specced out Model ≡ was probably looking right in that $60,000 range to begin with.
3. A Model S isn't a first generation car, which means potentially less problems.
4. Buyer gets a car now, which means they save $X (varies by mileage obviously) on gas, oil changes, etc over the next 18-24 months which could decrease the overall cost further.
5. GIMME GIMME GIMME INSTANT GRATIFICATION RAWR!

I mean you won't see baseline or slightly upgraded Model ≡ folks going for this particular "deal," but we're also not the target demographic for a push like this. The folks with long commutes who wanted a totally upgraded Model ≡ and like shiny toys they don't have to wait 18-24 months for (best case, not including potential delays, which are at least SOMEWHAT likely, if not guaranteed.) Even if that's only 3-5% of the reservations, that's still a big chunk of potential converts to the S. And when the Model ≡ rolls out? they can justify the OTA upgrades to battery/autopilot later if they want, using "I've saved _____ on gas in the last 18 months!" as rationale.

 

[Tiberius]

'Cheaper in general' says exactly nothing. If it saves a dollar it is stupid, if it saves $10,000 it is a no brainer.

The big picture looks stupid to me, if you think it makes sense explain it. Do you expect them to make air shocks a software upgrade, upgraded stereo, pano roof?

Thank you kindly.

Yeah ok, everyone here who gets it is stupid, not to mention the people at Tesla who came up with/approved the idea. But you, the guy who scrolled past my thoughts on the subject already and is asking me to repeat myself, are so smart.

I honestly don't care if you agree or not, but reread post #3 if you want my explanation, and post #7 for csphili's which is more in depth. Something tells me it won't change your mind. Good thing your opinion won't change fact.

Also, installation and logistics for air suspension, stereo, and panoramic sunroof upgrades don't compare to the installation of a singular pre assembled battery pack. Obviously.

 

[Borgholio]

The advantages of being able to charge to 100% daily without any damage to the battery and faster supercharging makes then new 60 much more appealing than the old 60, and makes the range less of an issue from more people.

Not sure about that first part. 100% on the needle might be the same...max charge. So you still might want to keep it at 90%. The difference will be at the low end, where 0% on the 60 is 20% or so on the 75 and you will have less wear on the battery due to deep discharges.

 

[liuping]

Not sure about that first part. 100% on the needle might be the same...max charge. So you still might want to keep it at 90%. The difference will be at the low end, where 0% on the 60 is 20% or so on the 75 and you will have less wear on the battery due to deep discharges.

The best thing would be to keep extra room on the both ends.

When is comes time to sell these 60's as certified preowned cars, Tesla can unlock battery and sell them as 75's with very healthy batteries.

 

[zenmaster]

A coworker has a car that just got out of warranty and he just had an issue where it wouldnt start. dealership found the issue was a software update needed to me made to fix the issue. $250 later his car is updated. dont forget the towing fee of $50. i for one would like my car to be fixed over the air rather than having to take it to a shop to just do software upgrade

The Model S/X can't do OTA upgrades for all vehicle functions, correct?

 

[ImEric]

Here's one more issue that might be getting Tesla into the slightly-less-unafordable market-sector. If a car is delivered for a certain price, that's the price point of the car. Later adding on the 75 kWh option and autopilot (if you wanted those features anyway) will allow German citizens to take advantage of post-delivery "Upgrades," while still getting the incentives.

Tesla claims it was purposely excluded from new EV incentives by German automakers and government

 

[SSD420]

I've heard this a lot and frankly I don't understand it. A $4,000 price drop barely moves the needle in the overall cost equation on a $70k car.

Maybe for you. But I'm sure $4000 is a big difference for some.

I bought a $150,000 car, it was worth it to me not to pay an additional $20,000 for a performance call and then $14,000 for Ludicrous mode. Just because it's a $70,000 doesn't mean someone should or will want to add $4k. Or maybe they don't have the means.

(I'm Canadian if you wonder why my prices seem inflated)

 

[bxr140]

...decreasing the range of the car...

The original 60 had a 208 mile range. This 60, with [presumably] a heavier battery, better aerodynamics, a whatever other electronic gadgetry improving efficiency is 210 miles. Not to mention autopilot and other gizmos for less price. It's unequivocally a better car than the original 60.

...increasing the cost of the car without increasing the price ...

Basic economics. A fractional cost increase on what will end up being a relatively small number of units comes with a bigger factory cost decrease for the supply chain and subassembly (battery) production line.

 

[Genshi]

Here's one more issue that might be getting Tesla into the slightly-less-unafordable market-sector. If a car is delivered for a certain price, that's the price point of the car. Later adding on the 75 kWh option and autopilot (if you wanted those features anyway) will allow German citizens to take advantage of post-delivery "Upgrades," while still getting the incentives.

Tesla claims it was purposely excluded from new EV incentives by German automakers and government

I'd mentioned this once before in another thread because I was curious if that was part of their <flips bird> message to Germany. At least from a plain old currency conversion, it DOES bring it under that magical $60,000 euros if you look at the USD to Euro for $66,000. That said, I have no idea what import/export fees are accrued moving the car, and I have no idea if it's a straight conversion or not. I'm guessing not.*

On further inspection, and this is by no means exhaustive since I'm not fluent in German...
2016-06-16_1322 - bergmbe's library
It would appear it does not push it below that magical 60k mark.

 

[ImEric]

I'd mentioned this once before in another thread because I was curious if that was part of their <flips bird> message to Germany. At least from a plain old currency conversion, it DOES bring it under that magical $60,000 euros if you look at the USD to Euro for $66,000. That said, I have no idea what import/export fees are accrued moving the car, and I have no idea if it's a straight conversion or not. I'm guessing not.*

On further inspection, and this is by no means exhaustive since I'm not fluent in German...
2016-06-16_1322 - bergmbe's library
It would appear it does not push it below that magical 60k mark.

I saw that before I posted, but I can't help but to think that it has something to do with it...

 

[Genshi]

I agree Eric, it would logically make a lot of sense. But they may have just given up on the German market until the Model 3 arrives. Who knows...

 

[Xminus6]

Maybe for you. But I'm sure $4000 is a big difference for some.

I bought a $150,000 car, it was worth it to me not to pay an additional $20,000 for a performance call and then $14,000 for Ludicrous mode. Just because it's a $70,000 doesn't mean someone should or will want to add $4k. Or maybe they don't have the means.

(I'm Canadian if you wonder why my prices seem inflated)

I agree. As a current Model S owner, I don't understand this thinking that all current Tesla owners just indiscriminately throw around thousands of dollars. $4000 is still $4000, no matter your income. Sure the relative value is slightly different but you either have to be unbelievably wealthy or foolish to just dismiss the expense of $4000 as just a drop in the bucket of the price of a $70,000 car.

 

[inspron]

Some of the things Tesla is doing don't quite make sense to me. For example, this new version of the Model S with a 60 Kw battery, but it is really a 75 Kw battery, software limited.

Yes, it is easy to upgrade, but what about people who will not upgrade or will do it "later"? Tesla spent the money to put in extra batteries and they are not being used. Reduced profit!

Instead, why not go to a service center when you're ready to upgrade, I'm sure they can swap out a 60 Kw battery for a 75 with no problem. And having a 60 battery that is really only a 60 also means less dead weight to haul around.

This can be applied to other options too. Instead of all cars being autopilot capable, and Tesla spends the money to install everything when it may not be used or paid for, leave those parts out, and if someone wants to get autopilot, go to a service center and they can install the sensors and plug in some wires and then software enable it.

I think this is already being done with going from a 48 Kw to a 72 Kw charger in the car, a service center changes it.

Clearly they have figured out how to create a lot of value and make a lot of money. The method of the madness not be obvious to you but they have clearly figured "it" out. Why bother being an armchair analyst and let them do what they are good at? It's evidence that they have put a lot of careful consideration before making these decisions. Proof is 10000000x better than theory.