TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC
Start a Discussionhttps://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/tags/

The Ludicrous+ mode power display is very interesting...

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Ohji, Feb 21, 2017.

  1. Ohji

    Ohji Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    Oregon
    I was at a supercharger this evening, and I decided to try Ludicrous + mode (since supercharging would heat up the battery anyway). I haven't had a prior opportunity to wait an hour for the battery to heat up, so I haven't really used it before. After I left the SC, I had a significant amount of freeway driving to do, so I left Ludicrous + mode engaged so I could watch the power numbers.

    As it turns out, the P100D is often a 2WD car. :)

    It seems that the Model S uses torque sleep whether or not one is in Range Mode, and torque sleep can shut off either the front or rear motors. When I wasn't in Range Mode, the rear motor alone was active if power needs were low and speeds were on the lower end (~50 miles per hour or less). Once speeds increased, the front motor took over and the rear motor went to sleep. If power requirements went above 60kw or so, both motors woke up and were in use.

    In Range Mode, the power threshold for both motors to wake up went up and the rear motor remained asleep at both lower and higher speeds (as long as power requirements were fairly modest).

    So, it seems that when Range Mode is off, the Model S is RWD at lower speeds as long as power requirements are low, and then it becomes FWD at higher speeds. The power threshold for both motors to wake up is lower with range mode off.

    When Range Mode is on, the Model S is either FWD or AWD. There were no scenarios where only the rear motor was active. The power requirement necessary to engage both motors was also higher.

    I apologize if this is common knowledge to everyone. I thought it was super interesting information, and I was fascinated that the car shuts off different motors in different scenarios. My prior understanding of torque sleep was that it was only utilized in Range Mode and that only the rear motor was deactivated.

    I wonder if 8.0 led to some changes in the design of torque sleep? I also wonder if torque sleep acts differently with P vs non-P models. I wish I could have taken some photos/video, but only me and my cell phone were in the car, and I couldn't safely drive and take video at the same time! :D

    Next time, I will have to do some more experimentation both on and off the highway. I could see a sharp turn causing the rear motor to wake up sooner or to shy away from a FWD bias. Issues with slick roads or other traction challenges would also likely make a difference. I will say just one more thing --- as I was driving, I would enable and disable range mode and the power display would instantly show the car switching between using the rear motor only to using the front motor only. This switch was 100% imperceptible as was any switch from a FWD/RWD to AWD mode. Tesla did an amazing job managing the use of the motors in the D cars!
     
    • Informative x 20
    • Like x 5
  2. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2013
    Messages:
    5,116
    Location:
    NoVA
    I'd love to see some pics of this.
     
    • Like x 1
  3. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Weee!

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2016
    Messages:
    407
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Are these screens specific to the "+ Mode" on the P100DL? I would love to be able to watch this on my P90DL.
     
  4. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    3,640
    Location:
    Oregon
    Yes.
     
  5. Ohji

    Ohji Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    Oregon
    Unfortunately, you have to engage the Ludicrous+ easter egg AND wait for the battery to fully heat up before this screen appears, so for now, this screen is only available on P100DL models.
     
  6. Ohji

    Ohji Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    Oregon
    I did snap one single picture yesterday. You can see from this screen that the rear motor is sleeping at 65mph, as the power requirement is quite low. I honestly can't remember if the car was in range mode or not for this picture.

    My car is in service today (weird seat heater issue), and so I won't be able to try again just yet, but I will try to figure out a way of safely obtaining some pictures or video later this week. unnamed_edited.jpg
     
    • Informative x 4
  7. Lbkmxp100d

    Lbkmxp100d Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2016
    Messages:
    204
    Location:
    Lubbock, TX
    Ohji, the seat heater issue seems to be very prevalent! I'm needing to take mine in for this as well but I'm 350 miles to nearest SC so going to need to plan a time that I'm in area.

    Have you received the update to remove the performance reducing counter? I have a P100DL as well and I haven't received update yet.
     
  8. Ohji

    Ohji Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    Oregon
    Wow! I didn't know there were others with seat heating issues. I really couldn't find much here or elsewhere online about it...

    And I haven't received the "countergate" update yet either, lol. I know Brooks from Dragtimes got the update, but he has an early, AP1 P100D, so I am wondering if either there were some minor hardware changes from the early P100Ds (and Tesla therefore didn't install performance limits on later P100Ds) or perhaps the software to remove the performance limits in AP2 P100Ds will be bundled with an upcoming AP2 software update.

    I haven't read up much on this issue, however, so I could be totally wrong on both of those hypotheses. :)
     
  9. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    16,120
    Another reason I'd like for this UI to be exposed (with or without "designer attention") outside of Ludicrous+.

    On the eco side of things...
    With Toyota exposing UI like this on the Prius, it's a shame that Tesla chooses not to.

    On the performance side of things...
    Isn't it generally "normal" to have these kind of readouts -- always available -- on any car with "Performance" in the name?
     
    • Like x 1
  10. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2014
    Messages:
    2,008
    Location:
    PA
    I have always assumed the front motor was geared higher, so what you are saying makes a lot of sense. As the rear would take you say 0-45, then the front would take you 45-65 MPH

    Effectively giving the car a 2 speed transmission most of the time. Until you make more use of the GO pedal and engage both :)
     
  11. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2011
    Messages:
    16,120
    My understanding from the relatively early days of torque sleep was that the front motor (in PD) is more efficient (while in the D the front and rear are equally efficient). As such, the behavior indicated in the UI makes sense to me for PD:
    (1) when in range mode: maximize efficiency by using only the front motor unless the accelerator pedal requests additional power provided by the rear motor
    (2) when not in range mode: maximize performance response by using the more powerful motor, with the front motor applied for AWD experience or for blending in at higher speeds where the performance advantage points to the front motor

    For D, I'm not sure what I expect. Might even feel/seem arbitrary to the human driver -- i.e. variable depending on road surface available to the wheels.
     
  12. Pezpunk

    Pezpunk Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    240
    Location:
    Bristow, VA
    i'm surprised it is possible to enable Range Mode and Ludicrous+ simultaneously!
     
  13. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Weee!

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2016
    Messages:
    407
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    I'm surprised that screen is exposed! Definitely a diag screen, and I love it!! I don't necessarily need a fancy UI, just give me access to gobs of data!!!
     
    • Like x 1
  14. Model S M.D.

    Model S M.D. Ludicrous Radiologist

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2015
    Messages:
    852
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Awesome info! I also have an AP 1 P100D and received the performance limit update last week.
     
  15. robz

    robz Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2016
    Messages:
    48
    Location:
    NJ
    I have a p100d model x ap2 car and did not receive the update yet either.
     
  16. JohnnyG

    JohnnyG Weee!

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2016
    Messages:
    407
    Location:
    Columbus, OH
    Hi @Ohji !
    Again, I really have to thank you for doing this and sharing it with the community!! This is great validation of how things are working. I've sent e-mails to engineering asking specifically for this kind of info, and never got a reply. This is invaluable data!

    I was trying to figure out one thing mentioned above. I wasn't sure if I was missing something...
    With Range Mode "On", the front motor never sleeps, it is always being used. But it was mentioned twice that "the power threshold for both motors to wake up went up" in Range Mode. We wouldn't really have a front motor threshold change if it is being used 100% of the time; it's just locked on. Or were you saying that the front motor's threshold changed to 0kW? Or I'm just lost here, lol.
     
  17. Ohji

    Ohji Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    Oregon
    Thanks @JohnnyG !

    With my prior comment, I meant to say that the power threshold to go from only 2 wheels driven (one motor active) to all 4 wheels being driven (both motors active) was higher in Range Mode. I probably shouldn't have used the term "wake up." :)
     
  18. DHG.

    DHG. Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Messages:
    280
    Location:
    Burbank, CA
    Sorry to go on a tangent but how does one know if they do or do not have a performance limiter? I have an AP2 P100D built in late December
     

Share This Page