The M3 terrifies BMW

[ohmman]

BMW has this going for them - great build quality, vast service network, name recognition, and familiarity.

What they don't have is a clue.

 

[malcolm]

What they don't have is a clue.

The problem for BMW and the other ICE making machines is the lack of vision. Ads like this reveal that they believe that an electric drivetrain strap-on is the answer to what is happening.

But the endless news stories about Autopilot and Gigafactory (both good and bad) are introducing a brand new vocabulary and new ways of thinking about motor vehicles. They change the discussion; disrupt the traditional conversations.

An advert can only communicate its one simple message when launched against a certain level of background noise. But news stories like "car maker buys solar panel company" isn't background noise. It's certainly not "business as usual".

 

[S'toon]

Plug-in hybrids with 20 miles of EV are great. That's pushing average commute on EV. All part of the mix, the hubris of the "pure EV" snobs is laughable.

Plug-in hybrids with 20 miles of EV range are pathetic. The average US citizen has a 38 mile round trip. That's why the first generation Volt made that their target range, and improved it on the second generation.

 

[malcolm]

Plug-in hybrids with 20 miles of EV range are pathetic. The average US citizen has a 38 mile round trip. That's why the first generation Volt made that their target range, and improved it on the second generation.

They are a gateway drug. For both customers and manufacturers.

Are EV owners "snobs"? I think that misunderstands what is happening. Many on this forum would describe driving electric as "compelling" "addictive" and use phrases like "never going back"

We're not snobs; we're junkies, man and Tesla are pushing the best product. Sure it's an expensive habit but as with the Roll-your-own, so too with the Traffic-light-grand-prix:

Smoke 'em if you've got 'em

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Plug-in hybrids with 20 miles of EV are great. That's pushing average commute on EV. All part of the mix, the hubris of the "pure EV" snobs is laughable.

It's not snobbery...20 miles would be pathetic enough, but it's only rated at 14 miles of AER. No doubt some people have short enough commutes to make it work, but the vast majority do not.

 

[zenmaster]

BMW has this going for them - great build quality, vast service network, name recognition, and familiarity.

What they don't have is a clue.

I think they can catch up before double digit global sales is impacted.

 

[malcolm]

Maybe this is why Tesla doesn't do advertising. The most appropriate metaphors would come from the world of narcotics: ;-)

"Autopilot should be disabled and my money refunded coz it gave me a real bad trip man"

"I got the Tesla grin"

"I'm telling ya, don't waste your time with that hybrid crap. You gotta go "pure". It's the only way to travel."

"I can't wait for the next download from The Dealer. What's gonna be in it? What's gonna be in it? Gotta go speculate. Hope I get my software fix"

"Oooo Rainbow Road. That's awesome"

 

[Yggdrasill]

I think they can catch up before double digit global sales is impacted.

Doubtful. They might have a compelling competitor in 2019 at the earliest, and by then Tesla should be pumping out over 400.000 Model 3 per year. I don't see how such a massive number can be absorbed by the market without consequences for BMW.

 

[FlatSix911]

BMW has jumped the shark ... BMW tries to attract Tesla Model 3 reservation holders in ridiculous new commercial

BMW’s argument boils down to: buy our car because it’s available now.

It’s hard to blame Nissan or BMW for wanting to tap into Tesla’s new pool of ~400,000 potential customers who showed interest in paying $35,000+ for an electric car, but do they really think that availability is the main factor here?

The Tesla Model 3 is an all-electric vehicle with an estimated range of over 215 miles and a base price of $35,000.
The BMW 330e is a plug-in hybrid with an EPA-rated all-electric range of 14 miles and a base price of $44,000.

 

[Red Sage]

That makes no sense. The entire market is affected and it's not because of anything Tesla is doing.

It is precisely that sentiment that will be expressed in board rooms at various traditional automobile manufacturers over the next five years as they continue to deny the significance of Tesla Motors while their own sales numbers dwindle. Some will build more powerful, even louder, gas guzzling cars. Some will stick a plug on their cars with not even enough battery power to go 25 miles, and hope that fools people. Some will do nothing more than raise their prices and advertise heavily about the tradition, heritage, and exclusivity of their cars. Some will do all that and wonder why they are on the brink of bankruptcy. Some will go out of business. And a very, very few will actually build pure electric vehicles without compromises, and succeed in surviving as a result.

 

[Red Sage]

I would analyze it a little further. What drives their will (or rather lack of will) on EV production? Publicly owned companies have to worry first and foremost about shareholder value. I expect that when they look at the cost to produce an EV (including the engineering and special costs for parts when procured in relatively smaller volumes) they determine that to make a really good EV will not produce a good return on investment (at least, in the intermediate term), considering what their shareholders expect. Tesla's difficult financial condition would be confirmation of this. The managers who decide what models to build get a lot of their compensation in company stock options, and decide that to authorize their company to make a good EV would literally be taking money out of their own pockets; and they hope to be retired (and have extracted all their money) before the EV revolution washes over the industry. Tesla gets away with what they are doing because their stockholders believe in the company's long-term mission, and are willing to ignore the constant stream of negative press from stock analysis journalists (who go along with Wall Street's tendency to focus on short-term results). Tesla's results will come much further down the line than a quarter or two.

When they 'run the numbers' for their cars prior to Production, they include all that -- but also reserve a section to cover the expected income from the sale of OEM parts over the lifetime of the vehicles. Components that they know will wear out after the warranty period ends. Parts that sold over-the-counter at retail will be far more costly than what it takes to make them. And that entire section of a viability/feasibility report would be MISSING from coverage of a potential world-beating electric vehicle. Because you cannot build an electric vehicle with built-in, predictable obsolescence. If you build an electric vehicle so that it works properly at all, it will likely keep doing so forever. If it breaks, it will probably do so well within the warranty period, so that is money going out instead of coming in. And no one wants to make their warranties any longer if they don't have to do so.

 

[Red Sage]

Those ads are pretty funny! There are enough hybrids already, we don't need another hybrid. As part of the demographic they seem to be targeting, I wouldn't say I would never buy a BMW, but it would absolutely have to be 100% electric and have pretty decent range before I would consider it. Superchargers (on or off brand ) may or may not sweeten the deal ... (don't think either will ever happen though!)

Which is why that line 'as only BMW can' is so hilarious -- it doesn't note that their prior efforts at hybrids all SUCKED.

 

[Red Sage]

It was quite the opposite.

GM starved the traditional divisions to build out Saturn.

And GM no longer uses Saturn's plastic body panels nor sales strategy.

Mmmm... That sounds like what the United Auto Workers (UAW) union wanted the world to believe. The only reason Saturn is gone is because when the UAW came to the table to renegotiate after bankruptcy the FIRST thing they demanded was that Saturn, the only non-unionized division of General Motors, be among those that be disbanded. GM capitulated, because they had already been ordered by the US Government to minimize the marques/brands of the company anyway. None of the divisions were 'starved' except for perhaps Pontiac, and that was done because of lobbying from the Chevrolet division, whose executives always claimed they were 'losing sales' to internal competition. Per Bob Lutz, there had always been issues with the plastic body panel construction techniques. I don't believe that process survived to any of the vehicles that appeared after the Saturn SL/SC anyhow. The Saturn ION did not feature those types of plastic body panels at all when it replaced the original cars, neither did the SUVs.

 

[Red Sage]

Never say never. First is not always best. BMW will have a full EV sedan in 5 years. Mercedes is introducing one next month.
Mercedes Is About to Unveil an Entire Fleet of Electric Vehicles
So yes, they have been investing to compete in the EV market - prompted by Tesla.

Introduction of a prototype is not Production of an actual car.

"Mercedes will start selling its electric line-up before the end of the decade, one of the people familiar with the plans said."​

This means pretty much nothing. Unless, of course, you are a fan of Mercedes-Benz, and are willing to... WAIT.

 

[Red Sage]

Curious -- I have never viewed Tesla as anything but the market leader.

The BMW 3-Series leads the entire luxury/premium market segment, in the US and worldwide, in terms of annual sales. They have done so for many, many years. That is why Elon Musk chose to target the BMW 3-Series with Tesla Generation III vehicles, beginning with the Model ☰.

The Tesla Model S has been a market leader, among flagship luxury vehicles, pretty much since its initial release. It currently leads that market in the US for 2016. The Model S has sorely defeated the BMW 7-Series for three calendar years straight in the US, and it seems BMW is afraid the Model ☰ will replicate that effort versus the 3-Series. It is a valid thing to be afraid of, I believe.

 

[Red Sage]

Agree that the BMW add is poorly done and counter-productive.
Keep in mind that the German car manufactures plan to migrate to EVs.
Porsche and others will be serious competitors in 5 + years... watch out

With emphasis on the PLUS...

 

[Red Sage]

It looks like the lady stops the charging session by unplugging from the wall first instead of from the car. Isn't that bad?

Idunno. Traditional automobile manufacturers always want to represent electric cars as being corded, with a familiar plug. Like old electric lawnmowers, hedge trimmers, or a vacuum cleaner. They never show the actually show the real power connectors like J1772, CCS, or CHAdeMO. I think they are afraid that will undoubtedly frighten people away.

 

[Red Sage]

It's only a mistake is if the ad is seen by a bunch of people who might have bought a BMW, weren't aware of the Model 3 and now become interested in the Model 3.

There's a good principle that if you think an ad is stupid, it's not aimed at you.*

This ad is not aimed at the people ueber-enthusiastic about PEVs. Those people know the choices, will laugh at the ridiculously small range and go buy or lease a Volt or short-range BEV to tide them over until Model 3 arrives. This ad is aimed at the people who want good performance from a car and like the idea of going electric as well. It's just a play to cut down the ZEV credit costs and hold onto those customers.

* I believe that there are virtually no car commercials aimed at me.

It is because no commercials are aimed at me that the shows I like to watch are regularly canceled.

 

[Red Sage]

Plug-in hybrids with 20 miles of EV are great. That's pushing average commute on EV. All part of the mix, the hubris of the "pure EV" snobs is laughable.

It is not snobbery, nor hubris by electric vehicle enthusiasts. The 'hubris' is on the part of BMW, in depicting their 'solution' for immediate access to driving electric as anything other than the pitiful waste of time that it is. 20 miles of fully electric range would be 'great' if it weren't less than the Sebring Vanguard CitiCar. Literally half its range in fact. 1975 was a long time ago. And the snobbery presented is by BMW with their 'as only BMW can' phrase. C'mon, MAN!

 

[Model 3]

20 miles of fully electric range is almost half of what BMW managed to do in 1972...