The M3 terrifies BMW

[malcolm]

When this doesn't work expect to see more aggressive ICEcapades around the various M3 events.

They will deny the coincidence of the timing, of course, it's bad form when an engine maker rattles.

 

[Saghost]

Agree that the BMW add is poorly done and counter-productive.
Keep in mind that the German car manufactures plan to migrate to EVs.
Porsche and others will be serious competitors in 5 + years... watch out

Yup. They'll be serious competition for the Tesla of today in five years.

For the cars Tesla builds five years from now? I doubt it.

 

[EaglesPDX]

Should you go 76 mph though, the ICE kicks on at a range of zero.

There is no part of my commute that has legal speed over 65 mph. The Ford Fusion Energi Plug in and Tesla Model S70 comparison on Compare Side-by-Side

Ford. 88MPGe
Tesla Model S70 89MPGe

Ford Range 550 miles
Tesla Range 234 miles.

Ford Cost to drive $1.25 mile (one charge)
Tesla Cost to drive $1.23 mile

Ford CO2 emissions 240 g/mile
Tesla CO2 emissions 190 g/mile

As you see from the actual numbers, a plug-in hybrid is quite competitive.

 

[RobStark]

None of the divisions were 'starved' except for perhaps Pontiac/QUOTE]

GM spent ~$15B on Saturn. That money came out of the other divisions. Even for GM that is a lot of money. This is when they had another major loss of market share vs the Japanese. Oldsmobile,Pontiac, and Chevrolet cars but not trucks were starved.

 

[Jayc]

Porsche and others will be serious competitors in 5 + years... watch out

Add another 20 years and still doubtful. Why? IMO mainly because companies like Porsche exists to serve a market that thrives on fat exhausts, engine noise and that feeling of being very special on the road. Now you take all those elements away then what does porsche represent? Not much other than deep pockets. There will always be a niche market for a 200k Mission E but even that will no longer come with that signature porsche trait of being king on the road because by then I'm certain either MS or Roadster will be hitting 2sec 0-60 if physics permit.

 

[lklundin]

Actually I don't agree. They have been in the EV business for a good few years and they have proven beyond doubt that they are incapable of doing great EVs. It is basic logic. If you are in a certain market why not do the best possible car - isn't that what competition all about? The problem is deep rooted in the culture of a company like BMW and you can see even their fans in this forum going all out to try prove that a true performance ICE is no match for an EV. You just cannot come up with a good EV with an attitude like that and at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what BMW or their fans try to say, the proof is in the pudding.

Obviously, BMW is not marketing any appealing electrical car, just like all the other traditional auto manufacturers.

But the fact that BMW try to show their hybrid as a competitor to the Model 3 tells me something else.

It is a confirmation of the analysis (not made by me) that the traditional auto manufacturers cannot just abandon their huge investments in ICE technology.

So they push the plugin-bybrid (i.e. the worst of both worlds), so they can continue to produce their expensive to service ICEs - while showing a vehicle that is plugged in...

So I think BMW's inability to produce a compelling BEV is not a technical inability, but more an economical one.

And Elon slapped them all right in the face when he asserted that it is just plain wrong for an auto manufacturer to collect the profit on service and maintenance, as opposed to the actual sale.

 

[SageBrush]

For EVs, sure, but in the broader automobile market, they are not in the same league as Toyota, VAG, etc. yet in terms of volume or revenue. The most revealing thing about this ad campaign is that they don't line up the Model 3 against their "i" sub-brand but instead against their core 3 Series cars. The mistake that BMW has made is that, as the challenger, Tesla would have had to justify parity with the 3 Series and BMW could have disputed that. Instead, BMW has done the Tesla's work for them.

I thought the advert was Tesla Vs plug-in BMW

 

[Takumi]

Yup. They'll be serious competition for the Tesla of today in five years.

For the cars Tesla builds five years from now? I doubt it.

Yeah! Didn't you know USED cars is where the money is!

 

[SageBrush]

It's not snobbery...20 miles would be pathetic enough, but it's only rated at 14 miles of AER. No doubt some people have short enough commutes to make it work, but the vast majority do not.

If we start from the average car use of 40 miles per day, then reduction of petrol use by ~ 1/3rd is far from pathetic in the world of ICE.

Honestly, it is ridiculous to spend time snarking about the BMW plug-in and ignoring the BMW conventional ICE. I am not a conventional BMW potential customer so their plug-in does not interest me, but I can well imagine people who want to buy a BMW and will consider the plug-in for road privileges. If that EV experience is positive they might demand more the next car around.

Learn from EM: *EVs that appeal to *any* niche raise the tide overall.

 

[Takumi]

If we start from the average car use of 40 miles per day, then reduction of petrol use by ~ 1/3rd is far from pathetic in the world of ICE.

Honestly, it is ridiculous to spend time snarking about the BMW plug-in and ignoring the BMW conventional ICE. I am not a conventional BMW potential customer so their plug-in does not interest me, but I can well imagine people who will buy a BMW and will consider the plug-in for road privileges. If that EV experience is positive they might demand more the next car around.

Learn from EM: *EVs that appeal to *any* niche raise the tide overall.

The problem is people on this forum are tired of waiting. They want BMW to stop trickling water and raise that tide with a FLOOD!
What BMW is doing is very little to quench the people's thirst. All they're doing is increasing demand, yet doing little to increase the supply.

BMW conventional ICE is ignored because it's irrelevant. As others have pointed out, why are they pitting a hybrid against an EV? Why didn't BMW pit their i3 against Tesla?

BMW is repeating GM's mistake/lie. Try to sell the people an orange (hybrid) when what they want is an apple (EV). Again, the people's reaction is: WTF?!

Pure BEV Dogma

 

[jerry33]

It's not snobbery...20 miles would be pathetic enough, but it's only rated at 14 miles of AER. No doubt some people have short enough commutes to make it work, but the vast majority do not.

14 miles gets me just past halfway to work. You likely lose more carrying around the battery than you gain.

 

[TexasEV]

Some people think plug-in hybrids (or what the GM marketing people named extended range EVs to get the EV halo while still selling gas engines) are a gateway drug to people buying real EVs. I think they just take up space at charging stations.

 

[PJFW8]

I agree, neverttheless my 2013 CMax Energi and 2016 Fusion Energi have addicted me to electric propulsion. Waiting anxiously for my 3. In the future I will never buy anything but a full EV. I would by an S now but they are simply too big!

 

[Jeeps17]

This is actually really stupid of BMW because most of the world still has no idea about Tesla and certainly not its Model 3. BMW just potentially piqued the interest of thousands of people.

As predicted, from the YouTube comments on the "Waiting" commercial:

 

[SageBrush]

The problem is people on this forum are tired of waiting. They want BMW to stop trickling water and raise that tide with a FLOOD!
What BMW is doing is very little to quench the people's thirst. All they're doing is increasing demand, yet doing little to increase the supply.

BMW conventional ICE is ignored because it's irrelevant. As others have pointed out, why are they pitting a hybrid against an EV? Why didn't BMW pit their i3 against Tesla?

BMW is repeating GM's mistake/lie. Try to sell the people an orange (hybrid) when what they want is an apple (EV). Again, the people's reaction is: WTF?!

Pure BEV Dogma

The people on this forum either bought, or plan to buy a Tesla. Leave the partial EVs to people who otherwise will buy a straight, 17 mpg ICE.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

If we start from the average car use of 40 miles per day, then reduction of petrol use by ~ 1/3rd is far from pathetic in the world of ICE.

Honestly, it is ridiculous to spend time snarking about the BMW plug-in and ignoring the BMW conventional ICE. I am not a conventional BMW potential customer so their plug-in does not interest me, but I can well imagine people who want to buy a BMW and will consider the plug-in for road privileges. If that EV experience is positive they might demand more the next car around.

Learn from EM: *EVs that appeal to *any* niche raise the tide overall.

It's pathetic in the context of this thread, or rather the message behind the commercials. It's pathetic in the sense that the cost and AER narrow potential demand.

I agree that offering electrification is a positive, but Tesla has also recently admonished manufacturers for their slow development of PEVs. The BMW 330e offers less range than PEVs that came out 3 years ago, and I don't feel that simply offering an electrified vehicle shields manufacturers from criticism.

 

[CT200h]

While the330e AER is less than the previously releases phevs, the performance of the 330e is much better , 5.9 0-60
Yes I know that's with the ice fired. But people want performance. I would take a 14-17 mile AER with great performance over a 25-30 mile AER phev with a CVT (blah) and poor 0-60 anytime. And that's fo m me having driven the last 75,000 miles on mostly electric.

 

[SΞXY P100D]

No, this is NOT the car I've been waiting for! Is this BMW's way to reel in Model 3 reservers like many of us here? They just don't get it. We're sick and tired of ICEV already and we know better. They won't admit that their i3 is a failure and now they try to shove a hybrid in our face... Pathetic.

Answer this BMW... Where is your supercharging infrastructure? Is that hybrid of yours safer than the Model 3? Does it have autopilot capabilities and over-the-air software updates? BMW do you really have a clue who you are dealing with?

Thanks for convincing more people to reserve a Model 3. We aren't stupid and can read between the lines. This campaign of yours has already backfired. A hybrid 3 Series will appeal to neither Tesla nor BMW enthusiasts!

 

[lklundin]

Yeah! Didn't you know USED cars is where the money is!

I suspect you are making a joke (that I don't see).

But it is true that the profits on used cars typically are better than on new ones.

Which is why it makes sense for Tesla to sell the same car more than once (via CPO).

 

[Nikxice]

Some great comments. Too many absurdities associated with these commercials. My wife made the observation that they repositioned the rooftop BMW at least once for filming. In the first shot of the vehicle, the lady could have driven straight ahead to exit. Next angle she's seen backing the vehicle, this time from the wheel stops. Simultaneously there's an apparition of a figure appearing in the upper right corner. Caption? 'Schultz you idiot, this ad is not yet ready for prime time!'