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The market is so broken
- Thread starter BreatheEasier
- Start date
Tesla offered me $42k for my ‘21 M3SR+. We are just going to keep it.
I had to comment regarding the ridiculous Ford markups. In SoCal, they are 10k-25k over MSRP for the MachE Performance. My husband and I looked at them after I put myself in line for an MYP in May. I have never owned an EV and wanted to be educated and make sure I was making the right purchase with the Tesla. Anyway, the Ford salesman tried to defend the markup when I balked at the price. He said they are in high demand, they can’t keep them on the lots. If that’s as true I asked, how come there’s not a line out the door for this one? Then he told me that the I would get most of it back with the solar rebate when I filed my taxes. I said, so essentially I’m getting no solar rebate because of Fords greed. Lastly he told me Ford had the largest charging network in America. I reminded him that they didn’t include the supercharger speeds that Tesla offers. Ultimately I said I just wasn’t desperate enough to buy into Fords greed. I work hard for my 10-25k and I don’t just give it away because “someone else will buy the car at that price if I won’t”. Anyway, I got a text a week or so ago. He finally gave up pestering me when Ford had a battery recall and they pulled the machE from their lots. It’s too bad people can’t be patient and stop this nonsense of price gouging.My wife and I are having this exact discussion about car prices. We know in a couple of years we will need to get another vehicle as we will have a new driver in the house and she will take one of our current vehicles. We are discussing do we add a 2nd EV (Tesla is what I'm pushing for) or do we wait? Are car prices just going to keep going up and up the next few years or will they plateau once this inflation/recession period is over? I can get a Bolt EUV for half the cost of a Model Y, though I know the MY is larger and the Bolt can't use the Tesla Supercharger network. The Supercharger network is what really pulls me to Tesla for getting a second EV. But, the MY will be right near $1000 a month no matter what I look at. Never have I paid that much for a car payment....
Used 2020/2021 Model Ys are going for a few thousand more than what Tesla is selling them for new. We have been looking at two different 2021 MY LRs that the dealer has priced right around $70k. I don't mind ordering a MY LR and if Tesla offers me an SR I would take it. I'm in Texas so who knows.
Ford and Kia are doing stupid dealer markups and tell me that the MSRP is the "suggested" price from the manufacturer. Jerks....
My wife is now spoiled on EVs with our Model 3 SR. I told her we should just get an inexpensive ICE vehicle like a Subaru or another Toyota (other vehicle we have is a hybrid) but she's sold on EVs now. I don't blame her one bit...
Good for you!! We refused to play into Ford and Kia’s additional dealer markup game. It’s another reason I like Tesla. Sure Tesla hikes their prices every now and then but I guarantee the other manufacturers will be following suit. I just hate dealerships and even more so after seeing their greed the last year or so.
It's probably too soon to say these elevated EV prices will be acceptable to the general population. I would guess these high prices are temporary and down the road will have some pain for those with longer term vehicle loans. It's tough to trade-in or sell a vehicle with an underwater loan.
Elevated? The Bolt is still a real bargain if you want an EV that is decent but maybe not current tech. Decent range.. decently built and appointed .. slow charging even on DC is the weak spot. The whole battery fire thing is just smoke and mirrors if you compare the number built vs the number of actual issues. But GM did do the right thing for the industry to settle it.
Clark_Kent
Member
I would just point out it’s not Ford or Kia that is doing this. It’s the local dealers that set their own markups, and they keep all the profits. Not Ford or Kia.
Clark_Kent
Member
Good call out. Most if not all dealerships are privately owned. As such, they're well within their rights to set the pricing structure as they wish so long as it's not prohibited by the manufacturer or country (Canada). On the other side of that, there are some dealers who don't believe in markups and will simply stick to MSRP.
What's happening is a sign of the times. I hope these dealers who are looking to squeeze consumers for every red cent in the name of capitalism and free markets remember that when things go in the opposite direction, because it always does.
Tha_Ape
Active Member
The longer those cars sit, the more money Koons will lose. They have to have them insured.
That said, there is high demand in Northern VA.
That said, there is high demand in Northern VA.
Clark_Kent
Member
Consumers do not have good memories. If they did, they wouldn't have purchased trucks and SUVs in record numbers after the last time gas hit $5/gallon.
The Ford dealer here south of San Francisco also kept texting and calling me for months after I did the test drive. Seems a bit weird behavior coupled with the typical 10k ADM (well, 10k was typical in Feb).
In the test drive, i was able to go about 3 miles around major city blocks, never could get over 45, never could floor it. It didn't put the best shine of their offering.
Even though the dealers are independent from the manufacturers, I still see it as they represent the manufacturers by selling their products. I lost trust in Toyota between the ADM and their service dept’s high costs. For instance the 30k mile service for our RAV4 Hybrid was quoted to me at $940.
Which is why the manufacturers tried to clamp down on the dealer markups. Didn’t seem like they had much success, as they argued they are independent and can do whatever they want.
An underwater loan is an outstanding principal amount greater than current market value. For the cash-strapped, it all but takes away any chance of selling an older vehicle, home, etc since the payoff is greater than the market is willing to pay. It was pretty common a few years back when market prices right-sized. The owner has to payoff the original loan amount, any interest accrued, plus the difference between the amount owed and current market value.
Clark_Kent
Member
I know what an underwater loan is. People "roll" negative equity all the time. Or if you don't roll it into a new loan, you're just on the hook for the shortfall.
We'll hand waive the increased cost burden and reduced liquidity from higher interest rates and highlight 1) when prices correct the double-down game is over and 2) used car prices have climbed the last few years possibly like never before. It's no slam dunk like you suggest.
