The National Park/Rural Routes charging problem

[GreenDriver]

I didn't know quite how to title this topic, but here's the gist of the issue.

It is difficult to visit even the most popular National Parks, even those near major population centers, due to lack of charging infrastructure.

What's true of national parks is doubly true of all other rural routes, including many one might travel for travel's sake, or for outdoorsy pursuits, or simply because they live there.

I understand that National Parks are all kinds of complicated for all sorts of rules and regs and political and bureaucratic reasons.

But why oh why are there not destination chargers everywhere? Unless I'm mistaken, these are the same as the chargers most of us have installed in our garages, for $400 or so plus an electrician's fee. Why is this such a big deal to put up everywhere? Why when researching visiting somewhere i have to read about some lone outlet in the back corner of some shack which you may or may not find as the only rescue option?

I realize that this is not ideal for travel - but a few 2 hour charging stints around a park to enable a trip are better than nothing.

This question is about the 99% - not the early adopters/electrical engineers who can rig something anywhere and be happy with it. Just us regular drivers.

Ideally, there would be plug and play solar powered chargers everywhere. Since that seems to not be possible or available yet, why are there not boatloads of destination chargers, on every rural street corner, in every business? It's an investment of, say 1-2,000 dollars. Why isn't this happening?

I'm specifically talking about seamless, frustration free, Tesla destination chargers, since all other networks appear to be mostly broken. There's a program in the works to enable businesses to charge for this, but even without that, they can charge some reasonable fee for parking.

In the meantime, most people continue to drive their ICE on these trips. And those of us who no longer have one are either scrambling to find that outlet in the back of the shack or just staying home.

I don't get why this is not being solved, is the thing.

 

[LoudMusic]

There have been discussions about this for a while. 11kw J1772 charging at trailheads and CCS 50+kw at the visitor centers would be fantastic. I suspect if Democrats get another term in the big chair we might actually see something like that happen.

I have no problem paying for that electricity either. It's not like I'm asking the US Parks and Recreation budget to foot the electrical bill for me, which is what that NC republican seems to think everyone wants and is somewhat rightfully angered by the circumstances. It could easily be a source of revenue for the NPS.

And that's a place I think you'd rarely see unused chargers until there are just an absurd amount of them installed.

FURTHER MORE! There are actual gas stations in Big Bend and I assume other big parks as well (that's the one I have personal experience with). Because they know people do a heck of a lot of driving in the park and probably takes a heck of a lot of driving to get TO the park.

 

[KJD]

I would agree that it's something that could be made easier with a little effort. I would also say that most of the National Parks have limited staff and limited budgets and they often have a hard time just keeping up with the day to day things that go on dealing with the public.

Some parks are easier to get to and tour than others. One of the better ones is Zions NP. They have a couple of charge stations at the visitor center. You pay for access at the book store and the code they give you is good for 3 days use.

Zion Canyon Visitor Center | PlugShare

One of the first road trips I did with the Model-S was out to Great Basin NP. This one is a wonderful park that is off the beaten path and you often have the trail to yourself exploring it. We were still able to charge up in town.

The Loneliest Road in America

Remember that plugshare.com is your friend.

 

[Mockingbird]

Why?

...because J-1772 chargers work with all EVs and National Parks would rather have chargers that have universal support

 

[GreenDriver]

My question is: in the interim, till the NPs/Tesla solve this, why aren’t small businesses near national parks, or along other rural routes, installing Tesla wall chargers?

 

[Mockingbird]

My question is: in the interim, till the NPs/Tesla solve this, why aren’t small businesses near national parks, or along other rural routes, installing Tesla wall chargers?

...because they want L2 EVSE that have universal compatibility with all EVs

 

[GreenDriver]

We all do. But at the moment, Tesla’s network - both superchargers and wall chargers - are the only ones that work seamlessly, which is one major reason why at this point in time Teslas are by far the most popular EV. So why doesn’t a private business near an NP invest the small amount needed to get a Tesla wall charger?

 

[Mockingbird]

We all do. But at the moment, Tesla’s network - both superchargers and wall chargers - are the only ones that work seamlessly, which is one major reason why at this point in time Teslas are by far the most popular EV. So why doesn’t a private business near an NP invest the small amount needed to get a Tesla wall charger?

...because they would rather serve all EVs rather than just one brand of EV.

Why did Tesla stop making Wall Connector that works with all EVs?

 

[GreenDriver]

What I would like to understand is if there is some technical or logistical hurdle to installing Tesla Wall chargers at random businesses. I am not an electrician and don't deal with electrical permits either. Is this any different from my having the wall charger installed in my garage, something which seemed simple enough?

 

[KJD]

What I would like to understand is if there is some technical or logistical hurdle to installing Tesla Wall chargers at random businesses. I am not an electrician and don't deal with electrical permits either. Is this any different from my having the wall charger installed in my garage, something which seemed simple enough?

A commercial install is pretty much the same as a home install. You are right it is pretty simple. You can read about it here.

Host Commercial Charging

Now if you want to have Tesla do the billing for customers to pay for the electricity for example you need to install at least 6 wall chargers.
This is on the registration page.

Commercial Services Registration - Formstack

On the plus side this will get you listed on the Tesla Find Us page and that may bring in more customers to the business, so that would be a big plus.

 

[LoudMusic]

What I would like to understand is if there is some technical or logistical hurdle to installing Tesla Wall chargers at random businesses. I am not an electrician and don't deal with electrical permits either. Is this any different from my having the wall charger installed in my garage, something which seemed simple enough?

No. Same thing. Local businesses don't do it because they don't see a benefit. "EVs never come here - why should we pay to install that expensive stuff?" EVs don't go there because that actually-not-all-that-expensive-stuff isn't available. Same reason gas cars don't go where there aren't gas stations. Build It And They Will Come.

Go forth and advocate for us!

 

[GreenDriver]

A commercial install is pretty much the same as a home install. You are right it is pretty simple.

No. Same thing. Local businesses don't do it because they don't see a benefit.

That's very helpful. I think I now understand the problem. It's mostly a misunderstanding of the complexity of charging - or the lack thereof in the case of Tesla's wall chargers. Also there's a misunderstanding of what you're risking as a business owner in order to obtain an unknown benefit. It's not zero, but a pretty small sum.

This is at least a partial explanation of the issue.

 

[LoudMusic]

That's very helpful. I think I now understand the problem. It's mostly a misunderstanding of the complexity of charging - or the lack thereof in the case of Tesla's wall chargers. Also there's a misunderstanding of what you're risking as a business owner in order to obtain an unknown benefit. It's not zero, but a pretty small sum.

This is at least a partial explanation of the issue.

It's largely a "we don't care" problem, which makes it difficult to address the lack of understanding. They don't care because they have a large enough customer base that doesn't have that additional tiny overhead.

Honestly I'd be interested to see what would happen if someone opened a new hotel or lodge in the midst of a bunch of existing businesses and included like 20 Tesla wall connectors and 20 ChargePoint connectors in their parking lot, and then advertised it thoroughly in the big EV populations. Moab, UT, might be a good example of somewhere to do the installation. There are a few accommodations with EV charging but it all looks really crappy. If you could be the first one in that can provide reliable power to EVs, all the Teslas and Rivians and Fords will be staying with you.

Colorado is doing a good thing and making it very appealing to go touristing in their state in an EV.

New Electric Vehicle Charging Stations Open in Colorado State Parks

Colorado is adding electric vehicle charging stations for residents to use.

www.motorbiscuit.com

 

[reddy]

FWIW, I just visited Arches NP in Utah, and Glacier NP in Montana.

Arches has a nearby Supercharger, one of the earliest ones in fact, near the park entrance. in downtown Moab.

I spent 4 days at Glacier. There are indeed businesses that have Tesla destination chargers. I stayed at the cabins at Sky Eco in Coram, MT outside the west entrance that included use of their destination chargers. They rent access to Tesla owners by the hour there, and even take reservations for that.

It's just a matter of time before having EV charging nearby because commonplace, and an expectation.

 

[bruce4000]

Lately, I have been looking at the Plug share app and finding a hotel with a J1772 charger, which is often a small non chain mom and pop hotel. Most will reserve it for you and can get a lot of charge overnight for no extra charge. I always make sure I mention I picked their hotel because it had a charger. I usually don’t need chargers inside NP as long as there are charging options near the NP.

 

[GreenDriver]

FWIW, I just visited Arches NP in Utah, and Glacier NP in Montana.

Arches has a nearby Supercharger, one of the earliest ones in fact, near the park entrance. in downtown Moab.

I spent 4 days at Glacier. There are indeed businesses that have Tesla destination chargers. I stayed at the cabins at Sky Eco in Coram, MT outside the west entrance that included use of their destination chargers. They rent access to Tesla owners by the hour there, and even take reservations for that.

It's just a matter of time before having EV charging nearby because commonplace, and an expectation.

Amazing. That's wonderful. Renting out charging for a reasonable price in a friendly setting is a brilliant move. They invested 800 dollars and have captured the entire population of Tesla drivers in Glacier. They're also likely to stay there, of course, and rent their rafts and whatnot. I'm literally laughing. Such a no brainer.

 

[Mockingbird]

Amazing. That's wonderful. Renting out charging for a reasonable price in a friendly setting is a brilliant move. They invested 800 dollars and have captured the entire population of Tesla drivers in Glacier. They're also likely to stay there, of course, and rent their rafts and whatnot. I'm literally laughing. Such a no brainer.

The entire population of EV drivers in Glacier National Park is a small group of people.

The entire population of Tesla drivers in Glacier National Park is an even smaller group of people.

Also, the Tesla Wall Connector costs $400 and a "straightforward installation" can range from $750 to $1,500, according to Tesla. (Never mind a complex install or installation of multiple Wall Connectors.)

 

[swaltner]

Honestly I'd be interested to see what would happen if someone opened a new hotel or lodge in the midst of a bunch of existing businesses and included like 20 Tesla wall connectors and 20 ChargePoint connectors in their parking lot, and then advertised it thoroughly in the big EV populations.

Look at Custer, SD for what will happen there, although they have the added incentive of the Sound of Silence Rally in May. It’s a small tourist town in rural South Dakota with a population of 2,314 people. Besides the 8 stall Supercharger, there are 10 locations in town with 22 charging outlets (Tesla, ChargePoint, 14-50 outlets). Perfect for a tourist location.

Granted, some of this was probably driven by the local Chamber of Commerce to support the rally, but this was a great place to visit because of all the charging options where possibly every hotel in town had charging available.

 

[Mockingbird]

Look at Custer, SD for what will happen there, although they have the added incentive of the Sound of Silence Rally in May. It’s a small tourist town in rural South Dakota with a population of 2,314 people. Besides the 8 stall Supercharger, there are 10 locations in town with 22 charging outlets (Tesla, ChargePoint, 14-50 outlets). Perfect for a tourist location.

Granted, some of this was probably driven by the local Chamber of Commerce to support the rally, but this was a great place to visit because of all the charging options where possibly every hotel in town had charging available.

Level 2 chargers ≠ Supercharger

 

[ucmndd]

It is difficult to visit even the most popular National Parks, even those near major population centers, due to lack of charging infrastructure.

Uh, which ones exactly? I’ve been all over the Western US in my Model S, visited lots of national parks. The only one I’ve been to that’s even sort of problematic is Sequoia/Kings Canyon.

Between superchargers and rather prevalent L2 charging at hotels in gateway communities, I’ve never had a problem.

I’m sure there are other examples, but I think the entire premise of your post is super overblown in 2022.