-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
The Nay Sayers!
- Thread starter AC1K
- Start date
-
- Tags
- Tesla Inc.
Car and Driver Facebook page article on Tesla. You will find a bevy of naysayers here that are woefully uninformed. The above guy was going on and on about how he only drives "real cars" and how uninspiring a ride a Tesla is, only to admit that he hasn't and never will drive a Tesla and why they are inferior because they only have one gear. What a moron.
Uh, wow. Drive one before you start shooting it down, and you might not make a complete fool of yourself!
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Wow. That Mr. Woolensack is incorrect in so many ways, he doesn't even know how to properly support his own wrong argument.
"Do you know how bad that thing is for the environment?" he says. "Really?" I reply trying to be polite. He goes on about how production of the car spews out CO2,
specifically this argument is why i made this picture...
even without numbers, without any type of measurable effect, the picture already explains it, i dont think i can even add the numbers in, its astronomical in electricity usage to extract oil. It also doesnt depict the amount of man hours in office buildings to even find out where to drill.
- - - Updated - - -
yep, those people... thats why i made this picture lol
gavine
Petrol Head turned EV Enthusiast
- - - Updated - - -
This picture is missing the oil tanker ship that takes the oil from the other side of the world. Not all oil is delivered to refineries via a pipeline.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
Nice pic, AC1K. The missing oil tanker ship apart, it may be a bit biased to show that only coal-fired electricity is used in the oil supply chain when compared to all the cleaner sources for an EV?!
correct, and i indicate that too when replying, however, its not as simple as Drilling rig > pipeline in the case of the Alberta oilsands, its missing the entire SAGD setup which is massive boilers with another pipeline for steam, then you have kms worth of pipeline in the ground steaming crude bitumen to the surface which is a huge consumption of resources. This picture is the "easiest" method of gasoline production, but currently, all easy oil pockets are dry. At this point in the argument, the other person has nothing to say.
- - - Updated - - -
its not biased because all oil refineries are coal powered in canada, coal is the cheapest and oil refineries need so much power they have their own dedicated coal plant.
any other type of plant is too costly and cuts into profits.
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
More fuel to the fire.... even before that big picture with the oil rigs and pipelines, you have to know where to drill, it turns out that ONE geo workstation is enough to power the Tesla.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
More fuel to the fire.... even before that big picture with the oil rigs and pipelines, you have to know where to drill, it turns out that ONE geo workstation is enough to power the Tesla.
That's a KILLER comparison!
Johan: "Do you know how bad that thing is for the environment?" he says. "Really?" I reply trying to be polite. He goes on about how production of the car spews out CO2,
Good picture. To be fair though, he was talking about production of the car (and probably specifically about the battery). It would be interesting to see a similar picture showing car production, battery vs ICE components. And presumably in 10-20 years we will be mining used batteries, which will be very efficient indeed.
yes im still working on a picture to describe how much harmful stuff is inside a car and how hard it is to get all of it.
Transmission fluid
Coolant
engine oil
brake fluid
power steering fluid
differential oil
Catalytic converter parts (platinum, palladium, Rhodium, Titanium dioxide, aluminium oxide, silicon dioxide)
but to those people i suppose those are all safe and non toxic, and its okay to throw your engine oil in the drain every 6000km
yes im still working on a picture to describe how much harmful stuff is inside a car and how hard it is to get all of it.
Transmission fluid
Coolant
engine oil
brake fluid
power steering fluid
differential oil
Catalytic converter parts (platinum, palladium, Rhodium, Titanium dioxide, aluminium oxide, silicon dioxide)
but to those people i suppose those are all safe and non toxic, and its okay to throw your engine oil in the drain every 6000km
And yet this barely scratches the surface. Any full accounting of the cost of using oil must include the consequences of pumping literally trillions of unearned dollars into the hands of savages and criminals. Despite the popularity of the phrase, there has never really been a "war for oil" -- if only! Then at least we'd be funding Social Security instead of the House of Saud and Saddam Hussein and Ayatollah Khomeini and Hugo Chavez and Vladimir Putin. Rather, our lawful consumption of oil has enabled other governments to fund wars, both against us and among themselves. There's nothing worse than giving an angry, entitled, sex-starved teenage male a pile of cash so he can do to the world what he imagines the world has done to him.
MORE FUEL!!!
So a small oil refinery putting out 10,000 barrels of oil a day requires a dual 2MW Generators...... lets do some math!
(10,000 a day is a little pansy refinery, most are putting out 100,000 a day and those plants consume well over 100MW of power but this is just a comparison)
1 barrel of oil is 42 Gal and you can extract about 19 Gal of Gasoline
10,000 barrels of oil production a day will net you 190,000 Gal of Gasoline
now those generators are not at max output but they are running about 1.30-1.4 MW solid
1.3 MW x 24hrs = 31,200kWh
so each Gal of gasoline needs 6.09 kWh to refine, this allows the tesla to travel 21.49 miles
a BMW M5 has a 21.1 Gal tank so that is 128.49 kWh worth of Energy to refine enough fuel to fill 1 gasoline tank, at this point the Tesla has traveled 453.5 miles
each Gal of gasoline is the electrical equivalent of 33.7 kWh worth of "energy" if we have 21.1 Gal that is 711.07 kWh which allows the Tesla to travel 2509.66 miles in addition to the 453.5 miles from refining
to sum it up with 839.56 kWh of Energy
the BMW Traveled 400 miles
the Tesla traveled 2963 miles
This is 7.4 times the distance
So a small oil refinery putting out 10,000 barrels of oil a day requires a dual 2MW Generators...... lets do some math!
(10,000 a day is a little pansy refinery, most are putting out 100,000 a day and those plants consume well over 100MW of power but this is just a comparison)
1 barrel of oil is 42 Gal and you can extract about 19 Gal of Gasoline
10,000 barrels of oil production a day will net you 190,000 Gal of Gasoline
now those generators are not at max output but they are running about 1.30-1.4 MW solid
1.3 MW x 24hrs = 31,200kWh
so each Gal of gasoline needs 6.09 kWh to refine, this allows the tesla to travel 21.49 miles
a BMW M5 has a 21.1 Gal tank so that is 128.49 kWh worth of Energy to refine enough fuel to fill 1 gasoline tank, at this point the Tesla has traveled 453.5 miles
each Gal of gasoline is the electrical equivalent of 33.7 kWh worth of "energy" if we have 21.1 Gal that is 711.07 kWh which allows the Tesla to travel 2509.66 miles in addition to the 453.5 miles from refining
to sum it up with 839.56 kWh of Energy
the BMW Traveled 400 miles
the Tesla traveled 2963 miles
This is 7.4 times the distance
caddieo
Member
Great summation! I'll keep the above numbers memorized in anticipation of anti-green arguments.
SummerlinModelS
Member
yes im still working on a picture to describe how much harmful stuff is inside a car and how hard it is to get all of it.
Transmission fluid
Coolant
engine oil
brake fluid
power steering fluid
differential oil
Catalytic converter parts (platinum, palladium, Rhodium, Titanium dioxide, aluminium oxide, silicon dioxide)
but to those people i suppose those are all safe and non toxic, and its okay to throw your engine oil in the drain every 6000km
I'm not sure if I'm reading you correctly, but you do realize that some of these fluids are used in a Tesla as well (brake fluid, differential oil, coolant (batteries/inverter are liquid cooled)?)
I think both ICE and EV manufacturing are equally polluting and energy hogging (the difference between the two is really about battery + electric drivetrain vs gas engine + drivetrain - the rest is comparable) , but at least an EV does pollute much less once it is on the road, needs much less energy and needs less maintenance.
Some info about those diesel generators powering camps, drilling rigs and sometimes oil refineries themselves
- A 2 MW diesel generator uses 196 g of diesel fuel to produce 1 kWh
- If the Generator used 1 L of diesel it would produce 4.3 kWh of power
- Theoretical energy contained in 1 L of diesel is 10.0253 kWh (or 34,210.3 BTU, each kWh is the same as 3,413 BTU)
- the Generator is 43% efficient (if you got this in school you would have failed)
each drilling pad requires over 150 truck loads of equipment to setup, bare minimum setup time is 1 month, to drill the well it takes 2 months. (it literally costs at least 1 million dollars to drill a well)
you have all those trucks idleing non stop so to make it simple even though the number will be conservative, lets say the diesel is consumption is 1.5MW continuous output at 43%
Drilling ops never stops, its 24/7 for lets say 3 months, and lets say by some miracle that one small well is full filling the whole 10,000 a day so that is 2160 hours of energy consumption
- 2160 hrs × 1500 kW = 3,240,000 kWh
- 3240000 @ 43% efficiency is actually 7,534,883.72 kWh!!!1
- 7,534,883.72 kWh / 10,000 = 753.49 kWh per barrel
- 753.488372 kWh per Barrel / 19 Gal of Gas per barrel = 39.66 kWh per Gal of Gas drilling rig requirements
going back to the argument above, the bmw needs 21.1 Gal to fill its tank which means.....
836.826 kWh drilling rig + 839.56 kWh Refining and burning = 1676.39 kWh
BMW has traveled 400 Miles (has not changed since no additional fuel was added)
Tesla has traveled 5916.66 Miles
i still haven't calculated the energy needed for seismic and other exploration requirements, also shipping and trucking the fuel to gas stations, and the gas station electricity consumption,
- A 2 MW diesel generator uses 196 g of diesel fuel to produce 1 kWh
- If the Generator used 1 L of diesel it would produce 4.3 kWh of power
- Theoretical energy contained in 1 L of diesel is 10.0253 kWh (or 34,210.3 BTU, each kWh is the same as 3,413 BTU)
- the Generator is 43% efficient (if you got this in school you would have failed)
each drilling pad requires over 150 truck loads of equipment to setup, bare minimum setup time is 1 month, to drill the well it takes 2 months. (it literally costs at least 1 million dollars to drill a well)
you have all those trucks idleing non stop so to make it simple even though the number will be conservative, lets say the diesel is consumption is 1.5MW continuous output at 43%
Drilling ops never stops, its 24/7 for lets say 3 months, and lets say by some miracle that one small well is full filling the whole 10,000 a day so that is 2160 hours of energy consumption
- 2160 hrs × 1500 kW = 3,240,000 kWh
- 3240000 @ 43% efficiency is actually 7,534,883.72 kWh!!!1
- 7,534,883.72 kWh / 10,000 = 753.49 kWh per barrel
- 753.488372 kWh per Barrel / 19 Gal of Gas per barrel = 39.66 kWh per Gal of Gas drilling rig requirements
going back to the argument above, the bmw needs 21.1 Gal to fill its tank which means.....
836.826 kWh drilling rig + 839.56 kWh Refining and burning = 1676.39 kWh
BMW has traveled 400 Miles (has not changed since no additional fuel was added)
Tesla has traveled 5916.66 Miles
i still haven't calculated the energy needed for seismic and other exploration requirements, also shipping and trucking the fuel to gas stations, and the gas station electricity consumption,
The coolant in a Tesla has the consistency of winter washer fluid, i.e. water. It doesn't have to survive the high temperatures of a ICE cooling system. You wouldn't even burn yourself if you stuck your finger in the easily-accessible coolant reservoir on the Roadster. So I don't think it's nearly as bad chemically as ICE coolant.
Yes, brakes on a Tesla and an ICE are exactly the same.
Oil? There's only a tiny bit of it. Nothing like the amount in an ICE drive train, which typically has generous amounts of different oils in the engine, transmission, and differential. Tesla just has one gearbox.
So the Tesla has a lot less nasty fluids overall than an ICE. The only part that is "as bad" is the hydraulic fluid for the brakes.
Yes, brakes on a Tesla and an ICE are exactly the same.
Oil? There's only a tiny bit of it. Nothing like the amount in an ICE drive train, which typically has generous amounts of different oils in the engine, transmission, and differential. Tesla just has one gearbox.
So the Tesla has a lot less nasty fluids overall than an ICE. The only part that is "as bad" is the hydraulic fluid for the brakes.
Similar threads
