The Neuralink Master Thread

[KarenRei]

I haven't been paying attention, but what would that let me do?

The tweet that follows:

Nafnlaus on Twitter

Basically, your phone and computer's senses, data, computation power, and net connectivity become your own. If some digital device senses something, you can control it just as easily as you control your hands - and get feedback from it just like your senses. E.g.: Type or chat online just by thinking the conversation. Feel magnetic fields and GPS from your phone's sensors. Do realtime data lookups, like seeing a plane, crossreferencing with Flightradar24 data and your own GPS sense and knowing what its callsign is, where it came from and where it's headed, etc. Knowing what's around the corner in a city you've never been to before because you can see the satellite image in your head. Flying a drone with your mind and seeing through its cameras as if they were your eyes. Etc. Virtually limitless.

The greater the degree of integration in the BMI, the easier you can do complex tasks. For example, it would only take a low degree of integration to be able to look up words in a foreign language dictionary, but with a high degree of integration (allowing for near-instantaneous fetching and processing of vocabulary and grammatic rules) you could fluently speak languages that you don't even know. The BMIs can be expected to start out rather basic, and increase in complexity and integration with each successive version.

Up until now, the state of the art has been things like monkeys moving robotic arms with their mind, and lock-in patients moving and clicking a virtual cursor. But Neuralink is working to increase the bandwidth by many orders of magnitude over that, including bidirectional communications.

 

[PaulusdB]

I think the cost of the thing is going to be way more then $4000 even in volume. Lasic is non invasive and requires no hardware in the patient. The HW alone is going to be thousands let alone the software/IP and surgery.

The cost may be (very) high, but the installers can add one more very obedient robot to their army. Priceless.

 

[liuping]

I think the cost of the thing is going to be way more then $4000 even in volume. Lasic is non invasive and requires no hardware in the patient. The HW alone is going to be thousands let alone the software/IP and surgery.

I'm sure if you opt in to the non skipable in-brain advertisements, it will be cheaper.

 

[KarenRei]

I think the cost of the thing is going to be way more then $4000 even in volume. Lasic is non invasive and requires no hardware in the patient. The HW alone is going to be thousands let alone the software/IP and surgery.

$4k is typical for Lasik in both eyes (two separate visits - $2k is for one eye), but yes. Neuralink has discussed a single visit, automated, Lasik-like outpatient procedure as the goal, all done under local anesthesia. The question is of course how does the cost of the robot compare to the cost of a Lasik system, how the patient throughput compares between the two, and how much higher is its medical liability insurance (one assumes it will be higher). The cost of implantable hardware would depend on the volumes that they're being produced in.

Neuralink may of course fail at its goals. But if they're making the Lasik comparison, that's the comparison I'm going to use, until they say otherwise.

 

[mrmage]

OT

The tweet that follows:

Nafnlaus on Twitter

View attachment 432746

Basically, your phone and computer's senses, data, computation power, and net connectivity become your own. If some digital device senses something, you can control it just as easily as you control your hands - and get feedback from it just like your senses. E.g.: Type or chat online just by thinking the conversation. Feel magnetic fields and GPS from your phone's sensors. Do realtime data lookups, like seeing a plane, crossreferencing with Flightradar24 data and your own GPS sense and knowing what its callsign is, where it came from and where it's headed, etc. Knowing what's around the corner in a city you've never been to before because you can see the satellite image in your head. Flying a drone with your mind and seeing through its cameras as if they were your eyes. Etc. Virtually limitless.

That's the goal, at least.

I think it’s a great idea, but susceptible to abuse like everything else. I wonder when the following firsts will occur:

- Prank (every youtube post via neuralink is a Rick Astley video)

- Hack (every paypal transaction sent to a dfferent account)

- Used for interrogation, especially in authoritarian regimes

- Induced pleasure / addiction via improper implantation and stimulation (illegal, but when has that stopped anyone)

 

[KarenRei]

Prank (every youtube post via neuralink is a Rick Astley video)

- Hack (every paypal transaction sent to a dfferent account)

How would this be any different from when you're using a computer manually?

- Used for interrogation, especially in authoritarian regimes

- Induced pleasure / addiction via improper implantation and stimulation (illegal, but when has that stopped anyone)

They're not linking it to your limbic cortex.

But yeah, this is getting a bit OT. I just thought I'd share my surprise about how high of an interest there was in getting a Neuralink BMI.

 

[Don TLR]

Sign me up, after a brain tumor removal I've had the worst case of tinnitus, walked right past a rattlesnake recently that was rattling up a storm on a hike, wife could hear it behind me and yelled at me after I walked right past it. Elon mentioned there could be fixes for that.
Maybe with some BMI integration I could learn to trade versus just buy and hold..

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Induced pleasure / addiction via improper implantation and stimulation

This is my primary problem with Neuralink as proposed, and I'm shocked that this is the first time I've heard anyone else mention it.

 

[StealthP3D]

$4k is typical for Lasik in both eyes (two separate visits - $2k is for one eye), but yes. Neuralink has discussed a single visit, automated, Lasik-like outpatient procedure as the goal, all done under local anesthesia.

I would have assumed the procedure would be done 1/2 at a time (in two visits). That way if something went wrong with one of them, you would still have half a brain left!

 

[CalX]

This is my primary problem with Neuralink as proposed, and I'm shocked that this is the first time I've heard anyone else mention it.

As someone who did my PhD work on neural implants and micro electrode arrays, the number of challenges that are still present and glossed over are enormous and the dream as many lay people are imagining how this could be used is still decades away.

 

[wdolson]

OT



I think it’s a great idea, but susceptible to abuse like everything else. I wonder when the following firsts will occur:

- Prank (every youtube post via neuralink is a Rick Astley video)

- Hack (every paypal transaction sent to a dfferent account)

- Used for interrogation, especially in authoritarian regimes

- Induced pleasure / addiction via improper implantation and stimulation (illegal, but when has that stopped anyone)

Larry Niven had people addicted to direct brain stimulation devices in one of his books. It was called a TASP in the book and shortly after reading the book I got some stereo speakers that advertised they had "TASP technology".

I can think of about a dozen more ways the implants could cause problems either unintended consequences (like what happens if you do something in a dream?) or hacks from the outside.

Sign me up, after a brain tumor removal I've had the worst case of tinnitus, walked right past a rattlesnake recently that was rattling up a storm on a hike, wife could hear it behind me and yelled at me after I walked right past it. Elon mentioned there could be fixes for that.
Maybe with some BMI integration I could learn to trade versus just buy and hold..

There is a tech from Germany that helps with tinnitus. Neurofeedback is around now and could probably help. I've been doing it since late April and even though I'm a difficult case, I've seen a number of improvements. It's not invasive and there are no drawbacks as long as the practitioner is using decent equipment. My practitioner is one of the best in the world and can recommend people in an area if asked. If you're interested PM me your city and I'll ask him for a recommendation.

As someone who did my PhD work on neural implants and micro electrode arrays, the number of challenges that are still present and glossed over are enormous and the dream as many lay people are imagining how this could be used is still decades away.

Some people have unusual brain maps and putting the probes in the standard places could have all sorts of unintended consequences. My neurofeedback practitioner and I were talking about Elon's neurolink project a few weeks ago and he agreed that driving signals into the brain at the wrong place could cause severe problems.

 

[PaulQuence]

That is not a blog. It is a mini-book. Neuralink makes Tesla's goals seem so pedestrian by comparison...

That's a good way of putting things.
For me Neuralink just simply the most amazing of potentials. The thought of being able to interface directly with the human brain and have the human brain interface directly with technology is extremely exciting. Imagine what it would be like to control a drone with your mind and potentially being able to see what it sees without having to look at a screen. One could conceivably be able to control their own car with this technology.

 

[PaulQuence]

As someone who did my PhD work on neural implants and micro electrode arrays, the number of challenges that are still present and glossed over are enormous and the dream as many lay people are imagining how this could be used is still decades away.

As a layperson on the subject, and I think I barely qualify as even that, focusing on the challenges in a public presentation doesn't really serve a purpose. The presentation was for the purpose of hiring qualified personnel. Personnel, mind you, that are already imminently knowledgable of the existing challenges that this field currently faces in its current form and previously known technological tooling. The N1 chip is a new tool and what needs to be known and understood is the effects the chip appears to be having with the monkey and how that might differ with implementation on a human. After that, it's a scaling issue. In terms of what imaginative individuals like me might expect, it doesn't really matter.

What matters is that the work is done, and if the reality does not meet up with our expectations we'll either read or write a book about our dashed hopes and relive things in a nicely packaged bit of fantasy.

Speaking for all the lay people out there, we'll be okay.

 

[PIOOD]

As a layperson on the subject, and I think I barely qualify as even that, focusing on the challenges in a public presentation doesn't really serve a purpose. The presentation was for the purpose of hiring qualified personnel. Personnel, mind you, that are already imminently knowledgable of the existing challenges that this field currently faces in its current form and previously known technological tooling. The N1 chip is a new tool and what needs to be known and understood is the effects the chip appears to be having with the monkey and how that might differ with implementation on a human. After that, it's a scaling issue. In terms of what imaginative individuals like me might expect, it doesn't really matter.

What matters is that the work is done, and if the reality does not meet up with our expectations we'll either read or write a book about our dashed hopes and relive things in a nicely packaged bit of fantasy.

Speaking for all the lay people out there, we'll be okay.

How do I get in touch with Elon Musk?
I'd consider getting the Neuralink implant.
I wish I could work for him!

 

[Quesder]

"Neuralink: Elon Musk's entire brain chip presentation in 14 minutes (supercut)" | C/NET

Kind of disappointed... I was expecting a demo of someone implanted The Link to control a giant robot

well at least a robot arm

but I got to say that this technology will change our life and the society much more than EV does.

 

[Quesder]

This Neuralink stuff is wild. I mean at this point they are shooting for the goal of taking signals emitted from the brain which are occluded by a gap (spine damage, such as in paraplegics and quadriplegics) and implanting multiple devices and using taking a signal, translating it, transmitting it across the gap, and replaying the signal with the goal of giving the paralyzed person the ability to move naturally again.

This doesn't sound very complex at the start, but it lays the groundwork for everything else that might happen when you have a chip in your skull which can directly interface with and read and write neural signals. In 20-30 years who knows, Sword Art Online might actually be possible!

P.S. Maybe we need a Neuralink subforum here. Mods?

As a person who use computer all day long, the first thing I want it to do for me is to control the mouse cursor so that my hands don’t need to leave the keyboard.

 

[Beltsbear]

As a person who use computer all day long, the first thing I want it to do for me is to control the mouse cursor so that my hands don’t need to leave the keyboard.

You would not need hands on the keyboard either.

 

[S3XY]

I’m vegan and have no issues with this. From what I saw, they seem to be treating them properly, so PETA should spend their time fighting the factory farming industry, but that’s just my take....

My biggest problem with PETA's that they always seem to break open when you stuff too much in 'em.

 

[Rockster]

When.

It will be a race between mechanical augmentation and genetic augmentation. People are going to do all sorts of things like add tails, change skin tones etc. Others will have robotic arms.

I want a robotic arm for those times when I’m at social events where I have a little plate of food in one hand, a drink in the other, and then someone walks up and wants to shake my hand.*

*Assuming we return to those hand shaking, social gathering days while I’m still young enough to go to parties.

 

[Buckminster]

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1305570412349321216
Pretty bullish.