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The other automotive lithium ion gigafactory

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by renim, Mar 13, 2015.

  1. renim

    renim Member

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  2. ggr

    ggr Roadster R80 537, SigS P85 29

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    But (as you note) that's 4 years old! There are quite a few Nissan Leafs out there, and some negligible number of i-MiEVs, but I don't think they would total to 10 gWh/year. I'd be interested to see what the reality is today.
     
  3. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    EV Battery Makers Market Share 2014 vs 2013

    Another positive year for EV battery makers, with plug-ins selling more and more, the demand for batteries just keeps on growing, with an increase of 54% regarding the previous year. The Big Three continue to call the shots, but BYD is closing the gap...

    Li-Ion batteries dominate the market, but now they only own 88% vs 92% the year before, because Chinese battery makers (Like BYD or BPP) prefer LiFePo4 (8% share now vs 4% in 2013).
    PIBattery Makers2014 MWh2013 MWh'14%'13%
    1Panasonic2,7261,7003835
    2AESC*1,6201,2892328
    3LG Chem8868121218
    4BYD46111763
    5Mitsubishi/GS Yuasa45129366
    6Samsung SDI314N/A4N/A
    7Beijing Pride Power (BPP)121N/A2N/A
    8ACCUmotive103N/A1N/A
    9Air Lithium102N/A1N/A
    10Tianneng77N/A1N/A

    TOTAL7,1674,667



    *Nissan NEC Joint Venture




    http://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2015/02...year-2014.html
     
  4. renim

    renim Member

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    LiFePO4 IS Li-ion

    more specifically, if it uses Li-ions and a carbon or titanate anode, its li-ion
     
  5. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    You can vent your rage at Jose @ evblogspot for the mischaracterization. :tongue:
     
  6. renim

    renim Member

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    #6 renim, Mar 14, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2015
    Jose does a great job.

    as per Jose, 2014 had 63.3k Nissan EV, 36.7k Mitsubishi, and perhaps 5k Renaults using NEC cells (Kangoo ZE)
    ignore the Renaults, so thats 100k plug in vehicles using NEC electrodes in 2014.

    2/3 24kWh EVs, 1.6gWh
    1/3 12kWh PHEVs 0.4gWh

    2.0 gWh was used for 100k plugin vehicles

    so a 10gWh NEC cathode factory could provide up to 10/2 *100k = 500k EV/PHEV

    (GS Yuasa uses NEC cathode for Outlander PHEV generation vehicles NEC and GS Yuasa Reach Agreement on Supplying Lithium-Ion Battery Components: Press Releases | NEC )


    so the division tends to be (wine example)

    supply up to and including lithium-ion battery electrodes at NEC (grapes crushing)
    assembly into cells and curing at cell factories at 4+ locations (Nissan & Mitsubishi) (bottling and fermenting the wine)

    its sensible, land is expensive in Japan, so the cell assembly, aging and inspection occurs overseas in lower land cost countries,
    Japan is great at chemicals and precision, so the electrode manufacture occurs in Japan.
     
  7. renim

    renim Member

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  8. daniel Ox9EFD

    daniel Ox9EFD Member

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    What about the other gigafacties of BYD? 34GWh by 2020, that would be quite similar in magnitude to the 35GWh Tesla/Panasonic gigafactory.
    How does this not get more covered?

    BYD Gigafactories To s | CleanTechnica
     
  9. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    BYD will not build one factory with 34 GWh of capacity.

    It MAY build several ~6 GWh factories if sales justify it. You don't get the logistical advantages of one GF.

    Tesla is planning on building the GF on a belief that the market will be there.

    Panasonic is dragging its feet but it seems, at least until now, Tesla has been able to pull Panasonic along.

    Then Tesla will build several ~35 GWh GFs around the world to serve various markets.
     
  10. daniel Ox9EFD

    daniel Ox9EFD Member

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    Well I did say gigafactor-ies.
    ~6 GWh seems big enough to be called a giga-factory. Which would make the Reno facility a tens-of-giga-factory...
    The point it BYD will have the capacity to sell several 100k's of EVs by 2020. Most OEMs wont.

    What they don't get in logistical advantage they will get in favoritism by the state.
     
  11. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    IF BYD follows through.

    Only in China. At least one of the projected factories is outside of China, in Brazil.

    Another may be in Eastern Europe.


    BYD currently sells to fleets in Brazil, Columbia and Costa Rica as well as to retail customers in Costa Rica.
     
  12. renim

    renim Member

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    BYD automotive is a cheap brand, their 5-4-2 strategy is very premium for their brand and seems to working great (under 5 secs 0-100km/h - 4x4 - under 2 litres/100km)
    assuming that they are using 13kWh batteries, then it is similar to Mitsubishi PHEVs but tuned for acceleration.

    So not competitors to Tesla, but both increasing the plugin market considerably.

    BYD is the top plugin seller of real vehicles in China
    Mitsubishi is the top plugin seller of real vehicles in EU
    Nissan is global top seller of plugin real vehicles
    Tesla is the global top revenue earner and top kWH seller of real plugin vehicles

    (i used real plugin vehicles as a a distinction vs Chinese low speed electric vehicles, the low speed Chinese market is probably around the same size as real plugin vehicles in the rest of the world combined, but are a different beast, for an overview see

    Shandong EV Expo | CarNewsChina.com - China Auto News )
     
  13. renim

    renim Member

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