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The P85 is now obsolete.

3mp_kwh

Active Member
Feb 13, 2013
1,123
304
Boston
Unbelievable, P85 and P85s decently optioned out with 735 - 2500 miles with $7300 - $17,000 discounts on them.

In my experience, 10-15k off was not unusual when P85's went through, as "inventory" before the summer supply cut. Many, of course, were stickering at 110-120k.

RWD is lots more fun than most AWD cars. The problem is people who buy cars, who are fearful about tail wagging, or, with Tesla, want the day to arrive where they can let go of their steering wheel.
 

Six

Member
Mar 11, 2013
198
7
Already you can buy P85 and P85+ vehicles used for the mid to late 70s. A few at that price range were recently listed on cars.com.

Prices on used P85 and P85+ are currently way down. I personally think it is too soon to know if:

- This is a temporary drop in price based on a large increase in supply (many high end P85s being traded/sold to upgrade to the P85D). This is comparably to the sharp drop in Tesla Roadster prices when many were traded in/sold when the first Model S cars were sold. Used roadster prices later stabilized at higher levels.

- This is a permanent drop in P85 prices that will continue to drop further

My personal opinion is that if new P85s were continued to be produced the used price drop on P85s would likely continue. But with the very large price gap between new 85 and P85D, there is room for used P85s to be attractive. I of course have no idea if I am right. I do not expect many used P85Ds on the market in the next 6 months however so I do not think used P85D prices will impact used P85 prices in the near future. But who knows
 

MsElectric

Active Member
Oct 11, 2014
1,604
22
New York
I don't disagree entirely MsElectric but I would say "many" rather than "most" purchasers in that category. I think that will prove less true as more people gain confidence enough to consider an EV.

The reason I said "many" considering the S85D may go for the P85D is that most looking to pay around $85-90K for a vehicle are already familiar with sub 5 second 0-60 acceleration offered by the S85. That's A6, BMW 5 series, E class territory. Though fast that's not that special. I think many may want to pay a modest sum extra and experience Lamborghini level acceleration that leaves the entire Mercedes AMG line-up in the dust.

If Tesla had an AWD vehicle somewhere in between the S85D and the P85D we would have bought it but we really didn't want something that accelerated just about what our 550i would do. I realize without a transmission the S85 might be "quicker" but we wanted a car that was faster than what we would be giving up and the P85D is all there is.

I really think at some point they need to bump up the performance of the S85D. There is too much of a gap between that and the P85D and though fast I don't find the S85D to be fast enough. When we test drove the S85 though it was nice, the P85 is where we actually had fun driving and sold us on Tesla as a brand. I'm excited our own Tesla is going to be even better :)

- - - Updated - - -

Prices on used P85 and P85+ are currently way down. I personally think it is too soon to know if:

- This is a temporary drop in price based on a large increase in supply (many high end P85s being traded/sold to upgrade to the P85D). This is comparably to the sharp drop in Tesla Roadster prices when many were traded in/sold when the first Model S cars were sold. Used roadster prices later stabilized at higher levels.

- This is a permanent drop in P85 prices that will continue to drop further

My personal opinion is that if new P85s were continued to be produced the used price drop on P85s would likely continue. But with the very large price gap between new 85 and P85D, there is room for used P85s to be attractive. I of course have no idea if I am right. I do not expect many used P85Ds on the market in the next 6 moths however so I do not think used P85D prices will impact used P85 prices in the near future. But who knows

I doubt the bottom has yet fallen with the P85 values. The plus package will be almost worthless in the used car market before long as it is no more faster than the P85 and it come with larger wheels and seats with a decoration. The P85s are already in the 70s. In December through early part of next year when more Tesla customers trade up for a D the P85 values will likely drop further.

- - - Updated - - -

RWD is lots more fun than most AWD cars. The problem is people who buy cars, who are fearful about tail wagging, or, with Tesla, want the day to arrive where they can let go of their steering wheel.

Fun, maybe if you really know how to handle it. Most people, including virtually everyone I know don't. If you loose control of a RWD car, unless you know what you are doing you are done as you are likely looking at a horrible disaster.

With an AWD car there is a lesser chance you will do something dumb with the car and loose control and I personally would never buy a high horsepower car without AWD. There is a reason why pretty much everyone premium car manufacturer is moving towards AWD only vehicles in their higher trim levels... Apart from a very few driving enthusiasts who like RWD cars I bet the majority of potential Model S buyers would prefer to have AWD and this is likely why Tesla discontinued the P85. With the P85D available, it made no sense.
 

dsm363

Roadster + Sig Model S
May 17, 2009
18,279
160
Nevada
So the P85D will be 'obsolete' next year with the higher capacity battery comes out? The iPhone 5S isn't obsolete because the iPhone 6 came out. If the P85 stopped receiving software updates or Tesla said they wouldn't provide service on it anymore then yes, call that obsolete. You can say the P85D made the P85 much less desirable and hurt the resale value but that is not obsolescence.
 

Gizmotoy

Active Member
Sep 16, 2013
3,671
883
Bay Area, CA
Prices on used P85 and P85+ are currently way down. I personally think it is too soon to know if:

- This is a temporary drop in price based on a large increase in supply (many high end P85s being traded/sold to upgrade to the P85D). This is comparably to the sharp drop in Tesla Roadster prices when many were traded in/sold when the first Model S cars were sold. Used roadster prices later stabilized at higher levels.

- This is a permanent drop in P85 prices that will continue to drop further

My personal opinion is that if new P85s were continued to be produced the used price drop on P85s would likely continue. But with the very large price gap between new 85 and P85D, there is room for used P85s to be attractive. I of course have no idea if I am right. I do not expect many used P85Ds on the market in the next 6 months however so I do not think used P85D prices will impact used P85 prices in the near future. But who knows
Agreed. Many P85 owners upgraded to the P85D and put their P85s on the market. There's a huge glut of them right now, even in the for sale section here on the forum. That'll die down, and then for the near to mid future a used P85 is going to be quite a deal for a fast electric. Especially given the price differentials between a used P85 and a new P85D, and between a new 85D and P85D. That's a nice niche in which a used P85 can sit.
 

Xenoilphobe

Active Member
Jan 2, 2014
4,599
4,518
Fairfax County, Virginia
P85 is still really relevant - these sales are not a permanent market state, but a "I have gotta have the new toy" market blip. No way in hell I would sell my loaded garaged Opticoated, car for 70K - but my wife might get a really nice car that turns heads at every stop light. I just stuck a Magnetic Letter "D" on the back with 3M tape- and I am getting lots of questions!!! Just saved me $30K!!

Don't think Obsolete is the right word.


adjective
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]



But I look out the window and see lots of really obsolete cars all around me on my commute :wink:.

Once they work out the bugs I will buy a P85D in year or so - once they add the vibrating, air conditioned seats, LTE, hotspot, Carbon Fiber body, etc..
 

HankLloydRight

No Roads
Supporting Member
Jan 18, 2014
13,068
11,317
Connecticut
The buggy whip, magnetic core memory, the slide rule, 8-tracks, rotary phones, 45s, VCRs, floppy disks, and the card catalog are obsolete.

The P85 and P85+ are still among the most advanced, high performance, and desirable vehicles on the road.

Discontinued? Yes. Collector's item? Possibly.

Obsolete? No way.
 

Perfect_Flaw

Banned
Aug 28, 2014
136
0
US
obsolete
/ˈɒbsəˌliːt; ˌɒbsəˈliːt/

adjective

1.out of use or practice; not current <-- P85 not current and no longer produced, P85D current

2.out of date; unfashionable or outmoded <-- P85 outmoded by P85D and is out of date vs. P85D

verbUS


  • 1.
    cause (a product or idea) to be or become obsolete by replacing it with something new.
    "we're trying to stimulate the business by obsoleting last year's designs"

Urban Dictionary Definition (
:tongue:):

Obsolete
A time-released function on all technology (especially PCs) that activates itself right after you buy the device.




 
Last edited:

PlanB

Banned
Oct 4, 2014
570
3
Oregon
It's going to be amusing reading all the issue threads it the D for the first year. I plan on ordering my D late next year when most of the issues are worked out.
 

HankLloydRight

No Roads
Supporting Member
Jan 18, 2014
13,068
11,317
Connecticut
But you have look at the big picture and compare the P85 not to just other Tesla's, but all cars on the road.

In that respect, the P85 is current and fashionable. Not obsolete.

- - - Updated - - -

It's going to be amusing reading all the issue threads it the D for the first year. I plan on ordering my D late next year when most of the issues are worked out.

Oh, you mean when there's a bigger battery, and the P85D becomes "obsolete" ??
 

gpetti

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Nov 6, 2013
1,639
120
Calgary, Canada
It seems likely to me that a new battery (e.g. 105kwh) should be possible to retrofit. Not cheap mind you, but cheaper than another car. Can't imagine what kind of trade in pricing we would get for that upgrade. I'm pretty comfortable that 85 kWh will serve me fine for the foreseeable future but if the price was right in the future and my existing battery was losing range I might consider an upgrade.
 

PlanB

Banned
Oct 4, 2014
570
3
Oregon
But you have look at the big picture and compare the P85 not to just other Tesla's, but all cars on the road.

In that respect, the P85 is current and fashionable. Not obsolete.

- - - Updated - - -



Oh, you mean when there's a bigger battery, and the P85D becomes "obsolete" ??

exactly.
 

MarkR

Member
Mar 24, 2012
893
7
N. Scottsdale, AZ
I will happily keep my S85 until the Model 3 arrives. Back in the 1970's the cultural philosopher Stewart Brand commented on the "tyranny of the new." A lot has changed, but the tyranny has only amped up. Long live the S85!
 

CarlK

Active Member
Mar 23, 2013
1,919
1,402
SF Bay Area
You P owners worry too much. A P will always be worth thousands more than a non-P if you want to sell yours, or more enjoyable than a non-P if you decide not to.
 

ckessel

Active Member
Jan 15, 2011
4,455
400
I don't agree. The P85D is substantially more expensive than the P85. This will make the used P85's more attractive to buyers wanting to get in at under $100K. There are multiple levels to the used Model S market.

True. I could not have afforded the P85D. I could afford the P85 at the time and it was the outer limit of what I could manage. In truth, it was a bit beyond what I could manage without some major sacrifices and I banked on Tesla's stock rising some.

Presumably there will be folks like me in the used market, able to make the leap the P85, but not the P85D.

It's the lack of auto-pilot and parking sensors that I think will kill my P85's resale value. I think that's going to be akin to someone trying to sell a P85 without the tech package :(
 

AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,414
4,097
Phoenix, AZ
There is no reason to sell my P85 until there are larger capacity batteries and probably a version 2.0 Model S redesign inside and out. When it does come time to sell, I'm pretty confident that the P85 will carry resale values between the S85/D and P85D, where the performance gap will be nicely filled by the P85. When you are buying the P85D, you are buying it for the performance and not necessarily the AWD. Not everyone needs or wants AWD. If you're looking at 0-60 times, the P85 will hold its own resale value because doing away with it has left a performance gap.

I also paid about $10,000 less for my configuration than those who received the autopilot, so the autopilot pricing differential is somewhat built-in.
 

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