The Perfect Tesla Raffle

[PeterK]

That raffle guy,

I agree with points made for the Energy Independence raffle title. It provides a solid potential draw for those not necessarily focused on electrification and carbon taxing. Once they're on the page a shiny expensive car should keep their curiosity. I recommend having both an S and X in the flyer this time. Falcon doors up of course. Maybe we will get lucky and Elon will release an Independence Day Easter egg via software update which can be incorporated somehow for added flair.

Dates look ok. I can certainly make the 22nd. Other dates I'll have to get approval for. Saturday's are my only guarantees. Luckily DC is much closer than eastern Massachusetts.

Anything I can do to help let me know. Including items beyond the raffle itself. This tax is too important and I'd greatly appreciate a chance to help accelerate its adoption.

I'm working with Alan on the raffle, as I was a director of CABA (www.cabaus.org) the newly-merged partner to CXC Alan mentioned above. Of course Alan and I met at a local Tesla owners gathering long before the raffle, and that connection actually led to my meeting the CABA Chair and ultimately joining the CABA board a year ago - but that's another story.

I appreciate and agree with the suggestions here, though need to inform you, @EVSteve, that the organization and the legislative effort remain in Massachusetts even though Alan moved to DC last year. So the April 22nd event will be in the Boston area. I was just checking out the likely venue with our Executive Director yesterday and think it will work nicely. More details to come.

Did we ever come to agreement whether to close this thread and open another? The mods could move all of this new raffle discussion to a new thread if so, I'm fine either way just don't want to have two conversations going on...

 

[tga]

Did we ever come to agreement whether to close this thread and open another? The mods could move all of this new raffle discussion to a new thread if so, I'm fine either way just don't want to have two conversations going on...

If there's a new thread created, someone please post a link to it here so I get an alert and don't miss it. I often read only subscribed-to threads for days on end and miss new ones.

 

[bart513]

Thank you Alan. Looking forward to hearing when the date is set!

 

[Pollux]

Folks, re thread creation...

I'm thinking of continuing this thread until just prior to the next raffle opening up. I appreciate that there is a set of people following this thread who are chiming in with advice. And I kinda figure that whenever people such as Peter or myself post here, there's an even larger set of people reading our thoughts, and if we put a foot wrong, will speak up! Such as with this thread proposal.

Nobody responded to my request for a lawyer who knows Canadian as well as US law, and could help expand the raffle to Canada. :-( I think I'm going to need some serious lead time if ever we do a raffle that crosses a national border. Two or even four months isn't gonna do it. In fact, I really should be researching this issue WHILE the current raffle is underway. But I doubt that I'll do so, as the whole raffle thing is extremely draining on this pitiful introvert.

Alan

 

[Pollux]

And now for a fish of a different color....

One of the things I disliked about the last raffle is that we paid for the prizes out of the raffle proceeds. While this is an entirely legitimate thing to do, and in fact if you look at a bunch of raffles you'll see that it's a pretty widespread practice, I'd very much prefer that more of the ticket cost goes to the cause rather than the prize pool. I didn't see/get much pushback on this issue, so I suppose I could just ignore it, but it rankles.

Normally, what a *car* raffle does, is it goes to a local stealership, touts its goodness in the community, and convinces the stealership to donate a car. The stealership gets a write-off and a bunch of local advertising and goodwill. (And the stealership usually has a budget for community-related activities.) The charity gets a "free" car. The raffle has fewer expenses. Not zero expenses, mind you. In Massachusetts, a raffle's fixed expenses may include legal, marketing, advertising, ticket printing, and so on. (A MA raffle may NOT spend money on sales reps, commissions, agents, what have you. Just ordinary charity staff/volunteers.) In the case of our last raffle, expenses included legal (but paid for by an anonymous donor), advertising and marketing, just like everyone else.

But for the CXC CPAR, prize expenses had to be borne entirely out of pocket. :-( The only prize I managed to get hold of without paying for was a Tesla 24-hour experience. But everything else cost $. ESPECIALLY the Grand Prize, as Tesla does NOT hand out cars to be raffled off. I tried multiple ways into Tesla to see if that could change, but the (always polite) answer was "no".

This time around, I think we're going to have a roughly $180K prize pool. About $120K for the car (up from $110K last time), $40K for the federal tax payment (up from $36,730), plus $20K to distribute among five additional prizes (up from $10K last time). THIS IS NOT A COMMITMENT. Just current thinking.

But unlike last time, we're trying hard -- and I do mean we, there are a set of CXC/CABA people all trying to do this -- to raise donations to cover the prize pool. Donations are tax-deductible, while raffle tickets aren't. And, since we use the money to cover the prize pool, we will make the raffle even more attractive, so unlike a regular donation, a prize pool donation will GROW because we'll use it for the raffle.

And, of course, all the money will wind up going into the MA carbon pricing fight one way or another. If you want to help break through on carbon pricing SOMEWHERE in this fossil-fuel soaked nation, and you have a LOT of loose change hiding in your sofa cushions, Climate eXChange is (in my opinion!) an excellent way to generate pressure and help the MA carbon pricing effort.

We've raised $30K so far from three donors. We're aiming for $150K by March 1. If you know anybody who'd like to help out, please pass this along to them.

Thank you!

Alan

P.S. Yes, I've thought about Kickstarter. But this doesn't seem like a good fit. We're looking for significant chunks -- $5K on up -- to cover the prize pool. Kickstarter amounts are more suitable for ticket purchases, which come along with the chance to win big.

P.P.S. I also thought about starting a dedicated thread on TMC about this donation thing. But I'm really reluctant to do that, as I don't see TMC as a fundraising forum! In fact, if the mod(s) hate this post, then by all means, let's just kill this post and pretend I never screwed up. I guess I'm thinking it doesn't feel like I'm abusing people to make this post in a thread that has a looooong history of being about this raffle, and anyone who's already interested is already paying attention, and anyone who's not particularly interested is unlikely to suddenly start paying attention now.

 

[Half Dollar Bill]

If you know anybody who'd like to help out, please pass this along to them.

I think the Koch brothers are looking for a place to park some cash. This seems like it's right up their alley

 

[PeterK]

I've got a potential runner-up prize, if there's anyone with good enough connection at Tesla to make it happen.

Like many Tesla enthusiasts, I waited in line at a Tesla store (Dedham, in my case) at the end of March to put down a reservation deposit. At the last second, I decided to do two, but I could live with one. If there is a way for Tesla to officially sanction a transfer, I would be willing to donate one of my first-day reservations (including $1000 deposit) to the raffle.

Anyone out there have the connections to make this happen? And if so, anyone else willing to donate a reservation?

 

[Pollux]

That's a cool idea! I'll ask someone @ Tesla (but you should probably ask, too, separately).

 

[boofagle]

@Pollux, I was in Boston over the weekend and I have to tell you in MA there seems to be much more of an emphasis on solar electricity than my state of PA. Traveling along Mass Pike? I passed numerous large solar installations that seem to be run by the state. It's encouraging to see action. Last time I was in Boston was probably 4 years ago and I don't remember seeing so many panels along that stretch of highway.

That being said, I don't have a Tesla and passing the Superchargers made me excited for the raffle so of course I'll be buying a ticket again! I've been looking forward to this for awhile, actually. Let the daydreaming begin!!

 

[Tedkidd]

Any thoughts on aligning it more with Citizens Climate Lobby? If so, I like "Carbon Fee and Dividend"

Now that Rep's have basically monopoly on our government, learning to meet them where they are including using their own language on them is crucial to making progress. CCL is about bi-partisan messaging. Here's a great Ted Talk by a very conservative guy who is also a climate convert on this subject:

Changing the dialogue on energy and climate: Bob Inglis at TEDxJacksonville

Here he is again at NYU - (and the guy wearing Google Glass, that's the back of my head)
Partisanship and Energy Policy

 

[Pollux]

@Pollux, I was in Boston over the weekend and I have to tell you in MA there seems to be much more of an emphasis on solar electricity than my state of PA. Traveling along Mass Pike? I passed numerous large solar installations that seem to be run by the state. It's encouraging to see action. Last time I was in Boston was probably 4 years ago and I don't remember seeing so many panels along that stretch of highway.

That being said, I don't have a Tesla and passing the Superchargers made me excited for the raffle so of course I'll be buying a ticket again! I've been looking forward to this for awhile, actually. Let the daydreaming begin!!

@boofagle, glad to have you back! As for MA... check out

2016 United States Solar Power Rankings - Solar Power Rocks​

It turns out that MA is tied for first (with NJ & NY) for friendliness towards solar. PA is in the top half, but not by much. :-(

Alan

 

[Pollux]

Any thoughts on aligning it more with Citizens Climate Lobby? If so, I like "Carbon Fee and Dividend"

Now that Rep's have basically monopoly on our government, learning to meet them where they are including using their own language on them is crucial to making progress. CCL is about bi-partisan messaging. Here's a great Ted Talk by a very conservative guy who is also a climate convert on this subject:

Changing the dialogue on energy and climate: Bob Inglis at TEDxJacksonville

Here he is again at NYU - (and the guy wearing Google Glass, that's the back of my head)
Partisanship and Energy Policy

Hi, @Tedkidd,

Thanks for the pointers. And thanks for the thoughts -- I agree!

Shhhh - my wife is on one of the Citizens' Climate Lobby (CCL) boards and there is an active discussion underway about how CCL can stay focused on the national carbon pricing mission while encouraging state-level efforts. Everyone seems to recognize that it's past time to take advantage of the "Laboratories of Democracy'.

CCL does amazing work. My wife comes back from visiting Representatives and Senators here in the US Congress and so many of those visits are with people who think the climate issue is crazy or overblown or a plot to line the pockets of already-wealthy scientists. These are NOT easy visits. And the people who make these visits are almost all ordinary citizens with no experience in confronting professional politicians and their staff.

Climate XChange (CXC), focusing on MA, is also non-partisan. But sometimes there's a real problem finding Republicans who are ready to acknowledge and then discuss how best to act. :-(

By the way, it turns out that Bob Inglis is on CCL's advisory board, which is a good thing.

Alan

 

[PeterK]

I've got a potential runner-up prize, if there's anyone with good enough connection at Tesla to make it happen.

Like many Tesla enthusiasts, I waited in line at a Tesla store (Dedham, in my case) at the end of March to put down a reservation deposit. At the last second, I decided to do two, but I could live with one. If there is a way for Tesla to officially sanction a transfer, I would be willing to donate one of my first-day reservations (including $1000 deposit) to the raffle.

Anyone out there have the connections to make this happen? And if so, anyone else willing to donate a reservation?

Hi all,
Fearlessly led by Alan, we continue to work towards a raffle launch in April. I have been in contact with a senior executive at Tesla who has agreed to transfer my first-day (about 11am, an hour after they opened) Model 3 reservation and deposit to a prize winner. (Note that Tesla has no affiliation with this raffle or our organization, and is not donating or subsidizing the Model S or X to be given away).

Now here's where I need your ideas and help. As background, in the last go-round there were multiple runner-up prizes (electric bikes, electric yard equipment, electric/robotic cleaning equipment, etc.), but every winner requested the alternate cash amount instead.

1) What do people think about a first-day M3 reservation (including $1000 deposit) as a runner-up prize? Is this attractive? Meaning a) Will the winner be happy, and more importantly b) Will it help us sell more tickets?

Pros:
+ chance to get a highly-desirable car early, jumping ahead of 300,000 or so people
+ $1000 towards the purchase

Cons:
- still have to pay the additional $34,000+ to get anything
- eligible for tax credit but it doesn't kick in until tax filing​

Do you expect the winner is likely to cancel the reservation and walk off with $1000? If so, I suppose we could set an alternate prize of $1000 cash so that I don't waste the reservation.
​

2) If this is attractive, is it enough? Should it really come with some cash towards the car? (remembering that our primary prize objective is the grand prize Model S/X, and our goal is to raise money as well as awareness for our cause)

3) If this is attractive, should there be more than one - and would anyone out there be willing to join me in donating a first-day Model 3 reservation and deposit (tax deductible)? If so, please send me a PM.

4) Finally, whether to fund the runner-up prize(s) or to help fund the Grand Prize, we would very much appreciate any kind souls out there who would be willing to step up and make a significant tax-deductible donation to the cause (raffle ticket purchases are not tax deductible). CXC (Climate XChange - Carbon Pricing Research and Beyond) is a 501(c)3 organization focused on research and education to enable carbon pricing in Massachusetts and to support similar efforts in other states. Our board is making financial as well as time commitments to make this happen, but we can't do it all ourselves. Please PM me or Alan if you are interested in learning more about supporting the raffle with a donation (note that to avoid real or apparent conflicts of interest, donors to the raffle and their immediate family members are ineligible to purchase raffle tickets - the same is true for CXC directors, employees and contractors).

Thanks all for your help with this.
-Peter

 

[MP3Mike]

I think if you do offer the Model 3 reservation you need to offer an alternative cash prize. As some people that would buy tickets can't afford a Tesla which is part of why they are buying a raffle ticket. And others that would be interested in the raffle, like myself, already have a day-one Model 3 reservation.

 

[wdolson]

I would think getting an early reservation for a Model 3 would be highly desirable to have. Even if the winner doesn't want the car themselves, they can probably find someone else who may want it. If any money is exchanged there, that's up to the winner.

In my case, my SO might want it, though she's not a fan of sedans and might want the SUV version. She would have to test drive the 3 first. She does like my Model S more than any sedan she's ever driven, but she would not get a S/X for herself because she feels the platform is too large for her. For one thing she wants something narrower which the 3 platform is.

If she passed on the 3, I know a long list of people who would be over the moon to get an early Model 3. So if I won I would take the reservation even if I wasn't going to use it myself. I don't have kids, but if I did, I would offer the reservation to them or if I had the money and it was a first car kind of situation, I would buy the 3 for them. I could see a lot of people doing that sort of thing.

 

[Pollux]

I had a crazy thought, which I shared with Peter the other day... I've been waiting for Peter's post so I could toss in my postscript...

Last raffle, the prizes' cash equivalents were:
2nd - $5K
3rd - $2K
4th, 5th, 6th - $1K

What if we paired each 2nd-6th prize with an M3 reservation?! Something like this:

2nd - $5K + M3 reservation + $1K for the deposit
N.B. Total valuation >$5K means we have to worry about withholding and IRS reporting for this prize.
For all the prizes, we have to worry whether the M3 reservation in and of itself has some cash value; that's a problem for us to figure out.

3rd - $2K + M3 res + $1K deposit

4th, 5th, 6th - $1K + M3 res + $1K deposit

We'd need to round up 4 additional people willing to hand their *early* M3 reservations over to us. As Peter says, the $1K deposit originally put down by the reservation maker could then be treated as a tax-deductible contribution. Alternately, I suppose CXC could reimburse the reservation maker (a slight variation of Peter's idea).

And... what would we do if a winner didn't want the M3 reservation after all? Give it back to the original reservation holder? Maybe see if one of the other winners wanted a second M3 reservation -- presumably, starting from the highest-place winner and then working down the list. Something else?

Peter also listed a point that I hadn't realized from my earlier discussion with him. Another likely benefit of an early M3 reservation is that the winner would also be able to qualify for the $7500 federal tax credit. Huh. I'm thinking of a new life strategy where I just bring all of my problems to Peter and listen carefully to his directions.

Thanks,
Alan

 

[Pollux]

4) Finally, whether to fund the runner-up prize(s) or to help fund the Grand Prize, we would very much appreciate any kind souls out there who would be willing to step up and make a significant tax-deductible donation to the cause (raffle ticket purchases are not tax deductible). CXC (Climate XChange - Carbon Pricing Research and Beyond) is a 501(c)3 organization focused on research and education to enable carbon pricing in Massachusetts and to support similar efforts in other states. Our board is making financial as well as time commitments to make this happen, but we can't do it all ourselves. Please PM me or Alan if you are interested in learning more about supporting the raffle with a donation (note that to avoid real or apparent conflicts of interest, donors to the raffle and their immediate family members are ineligible to purchase raffle tickets - the same is true for CXC directors, employees and contractors).
-Peter

Yeah, we *are* looking for raffle prize pool underwriters; contributions are tax-deductible. We've been doing it through personal networks, not involving TMC.

Why? Because last raffle we treated the problem of writing raffle rules like an engineering problem. Corner case: what if the raffle only sold a few tickets? Answer: cash raffle, with prize sizes limited to fixed amounts, and those amounts guaranteed to be available. What if the raffle sold many hundreds of tickets, but not enough to be able to pay for the grand prize? Answer: cash raffle, 50/50 split, half of the cash to the prize pool (split amongst the winners) and half the cash staying with CXC. So lots of people wanted to know, how many tickets had we sold, were the "real" prizes available yet, yadda yadda yadda. Single biggest pain point. And understandably so!! Even though I knew in my heart of hearts that the raffle was going to sell more than enough tickets to cover all the prizes and never believed we'd actually fall back on these rules! But that's what engineers are supposed to do -- handle the corner cases!! I guess this is why my code check-in times were eventually restricted to 11:58 a.m. - 11:59 p.m. every February 29.

PROMISE: CXC has decided that, come hell or high water, ALL prizes INCLUDING the Grand Prize will be available from TICKET #1. Period. If the raffle sells only one ticket, well then, that ticket purchaser is gonna be pretty darned happy. If it sells only six tickets, that's gonna be six prize winners right there. And if we only sell 10 tickets, people will have once-in-a-lifetime odds. You get the idea.

The whole donate-to-support-the-prize-pool thing is also a way to take donor dollars and stretch them. We take the donor dollars, use them to support the raffle, and generate more money as a result. The raffle doesn't have to pay for the prizes. Woohoo! More money for carbon pricing!

We've raised $40K so far to underwrite the prize pool and are looking for another $110K. If you want to know more, contact Peter, me, or Michael Green, Executive Director of Climate XChange, [email protected].

That said, refer to PROMISE. Even if we don't raise another penny for the prize pool, we will still make the prizes available from TICKET #1. (It's just that the other prize pool dollars will ultimately be treated as a raffle expense, like last time, less the money we've raised so far.)

Thanks,
Alan

 

[Cowby]

What the heck....I'll throw y'all my M3 reservation (yes it's a day 1 reservation). No, I'm not super rich, but I like ballsy people with a good cause behind their backs! Too many stand up guys here not to help out any way I can.

 

[boofagle]

Hadn't checked the thread in awhile...things got really interesting! I think you will sell a lot more tickets with these 2-6 prizes if you can lock up 6 m3 early reservations. Get ready to sell out! I think early is the key.

 

[PeterK]

I think if you do offer the Model 3 reservation you need to offer an alternative cash prize. As some people that would buy tickets can't afford a Tesla which is part of why they are buying a raffle ticket. And others that would be interested in the raffle, like myself, already have a day-one Model 3 reservation.

I agree, we would offer an alternative cash prize - which in this case would be $1000 cash, I guess. Nothing to sneeze at.

I would think getting an early reservation for a Model 3 would be highly desirable to have. Even if the winner doesn't want the car themselves, they can probably find someone else who may want it. If any money is exchanged there, that's up to the winner.

In my case, my SO might want it, though she's not a fan of sedans and might want the SUV version. She would have to test drive the 3 first. She does like my Model S more than any sedan she's ever driven, but she would not get a S/X for herself because she feels the platform is too large for her. For one thing she wants something narrower which the 3 platform is.

If she passed on the 3, I know a long list of people who would be over the moon to get an early Model 3. So if I won I would take the reservation even if I wasn't going to use it myself. I don't have kids, but if I did, I would offer the reservation to them or if I had the money and it was a first car kind of situation, I would buy the 3 for them. I could see a lot of people doing that sort of thing.

I will have to confirm with my Tesla executive contact whether Tesla would be willing to have us transfer the reservation to a name designated by the winner, not just the name of the winner. A little trickier, but not an unreasonable request. We would officially discourage any money changing hands, of course.

What the heck....I'll throw y'all my M3 reservation (yes it's a day 1 reservation). No, I'm not super rich, but I like ballsy people with a good cause behind their backs! Too many stand up guys here not to help out any way I can.

Thanks very much, Cowby! Does that include donating the $1000 deposit (please!)? I'll PM you to follow up.

Hadn't checked the thread in awhile...things got really interesting! I think you will sell a lot more tickets with these 2-6 prizes if you can lock up 6 m3 early reservations. Get ready to sell out! I think early is the key.

Great to hear - but that means we need 3 more early reservations! And I guess if we can figure out the priority order, we can assign the earliest to prize #2, next to prize #3, etc. Potential donors please let us know. The $1000 deposit is of course a tax-deductible donation. I'm not sure how you might value/report the reservation as an in-kind donation - for myself I'll likely just count the $1000, unless one of the engineers out there can come up with a valuation formula that the IRS would be inclined to accept.

Thanks all for your continued ideas, suggestions, and donations.
-Peter