The Perfect Tesla Raffle

[Pollux]

@wdolson - couldn't agree more. Given the tax credit ramp-down, I believe anyone who wins a car from the Carbon Pricing Awareness Raffle that is then available as a standard-order item with a "regular" backlog (as opposed to a 400K backlog) should be able to make it into the half-credit phase from January - June. Obviously, an issue completely not under our control. :-(

What *is* under our control is that we remain committed to paying the winner's federal tax burden incurred on winning such a big prize. Instead of a winner being required to come up with 28% of the prize value, in advance, before ever receiving the prize, we will pay the mandated 33.33% tax (it's higher for us than for an individual winner because we must pay taxes on the gift of paying the winner's taxes, then taxes on those taxes on the taxes, and so on).(*)

Thanks,
Alan

(*)I'm pretty sure that you already know about the tax issue; I wrote that paragraph for the hypothetical benefit of the hypothetical audience new to this particular issue.

 

[Pollux]

Unfortunately the climate has not started improving on its own, though lots of Model 3s on the road will help. We need to continue Climate XChange's effort to price carbon not just in Massachusetts (where we had some recent success with the passage of a Senate bill: Senate Passes Carbon Pricing in an Historic Step for Massachusetts | Climate XChange) but in support of legislation in many other states.

I have been remiss in not trumpeting the passage of carbon pricing by the MA Senate! Thank you to @PeterK for bringing that up!

Just happened a few weeks ago; it was UNANIMOUS in the MA Senate; the legislation was part of a larger omnibus clean energy bill; it instructs the MA Governor to put a price on carbon in 2020 and expands from sector to sector over 2020 / 2021 / 2022. It's incredible! Credit goes to MA State Senator Mike Barrett (himself fighting cancer), plus of course many others in the MA Senate and the many groups and individuals who worked on and continue to work towards this goal. This is the first piece of legislation re carbon pricing to be passed by any legislative body in the United States! Getting to this point has been hard. Not done, though, not by a long shot, as the next obstacle is the MA House; not at all sure this same legislation can pass the House at this point. And then get signed by the Governor.

Climate XChange was heavily involved, of course. In fact, in the picture of the announcement from Barrett (at the podium), the (living) guy next to him is the Climate XChange Executive Director, Michael Green:

After the next raffle, even if we raise enough money, we still won't buy him new shoes. The money goes to the fight, not the footwear.

CXC/Maryland has been doing something similar, with carbon pricing legislation introduced in the MA House of Delegates a few months ago by co-sponsors Del. Ben Kramer and Del. David Frasier-Hidalgo. Made it into committee. Didn't make it back out again. :-( A ton of support identified, obviously more needed.

As I've probably mentioned before, there are efforts underway in other states, too.

We've also recently seen some hoped-for payoffs from our efforts and those of others: for example, there's now a national carbon pricing campaign underway by "conservatives" (no longer sure what that word means), co-chaired by Senator Trent Lott and Senator John Breaux (New Group, With Conservative Credentials, Plans Push for a Carbon Tax) and a good part of the motivation is the concern that states will enact different carbon pricing rules, where a nationwide single set of rules would be easier for businesses to operate with. Another example is that Citizens Climate Lobby, a national carbon pricing advocacy non-profit, has (finally) begun to pay more attention to state-level efforts.

Alan

P.S. Some of my potential biases: I'm married to a Climate XChange co-founder and everyone who knows us would declare that I'm her puppet; I'm a CXC member; I helped put together this raffle thing; I'm a capitalist; I'm incredibly handsome.

P.P.S. I should also note that until recently my wife was a CCL board member.

 

[Pollux]

Courtesy of @mspohr in another thread, this article about 10:1 ratio of spending on defeating or "shaping" climate change legislation versus getting something enacted.

Fossil fuel industry spent nearly $2 billion to kill U.S. climate action, new study finds

One of the reasons Climate XChange exists.

Alan

 

[wdolson]

(*)I'm pretty sure that you already know about the tax issue; I wrote that paragraph for the hypothetical benefit of the hypothetical audience new to this particular issue.

Understood. Public posts should have more context for those "coming in" in the middle of the conversation.

 

[PeterK]

Ok folks, I'm not getting a lot of suggestions here so I'm going to throw out a couple of thoughts to spark responses.

Raffle duration: We're planning on a pretty similar duration to the first raffle, from September through December. Last year's from April to early July was a little shorter.

Prize(s): We're thinking it's time to shake things up a bit. A Model S or X and some small cash prizes might be getting a bit boring, and first-day Model 3 reservations aren't what they used to be. What if we had two or even three cars? A Model 3 Performance as the grand prize, and one or two others of lower spec?

Any reactions or suggestions?

 

[Polly Wog]

@PeterK, I think the idea of having a fully-spec'd Model 3 Performance car as the grand prize is a great idea. There are still a lot of Model 3 reservation holders out there waiting on the standard range model, and having a Model 3 performance as the grand prize might draw many of them into the raffle. Having the 2nd prize as a fully-loaded LR Dual Motor (or apply the equivalent value towards something else) would also bring new people into the raffle, I would think.

 

[PeterK]

@PeterK, I think the idea of having a fully-spec'd Model 3 Performance car as the grand prize is a great idea. There are still a lot of Model 3 reservation holders out there waiting on the standard range model, and having a Model 3 performance as the grand prize might draw many of them into the raffle. Having the 2nd prize as a fully-loaded LR Dual Motor (or apply the equivalent value towards something else) would also bring new people into the raffle, I would think.

Great, thanks for the input. Other ideas, anyone?

 

[trils0n]

More cars > more expensive cars.

 

[Pollux]

@trils0n: how about three Model 3s; CXC pays the federal tax payment (33.33% instead of the 28% that a winner would otherwise have to pre-pay to CXC before receiving the car, so that CXC can send it to the feds) for EACH CAR; so raffle ticket purchaser gets three chances to win a Model 3?

How much would you care if it were, say, 3 cars instead of 2? Or 4 cars instead of 3?

Thanks,
Alan

 

[MP3Mike]

@trils0n: how about three Model 3s; CXC pays the federal tax payment (33.33% instead of the 28% that a winner would otherwise have to pre-pay to CXC before receiving the car, so that CXC can send it to the feds) for EACH CAR; so raffle ticket purchaser gets three chances to win a Model 3?

How much would you care if it were, say, 3 cars instead of 2? Or 4 cars instead of 3?

Thanks,
Alan

I like the idea of three cars. It would be great if the grand prize was a P3D, while the other two could be standard Model 3 LR. (Though if you could insert a Model 3D and a second prize, for 4 total cars that would be even better.

 

[trils0n]

@trils0n: how about three Model 3s; CXC pays the federal tax payment (33.33% instead of the 28% that a winner would otherwise have to pre-pay to CXC before receiving the car, so that CXC can send it to the feds) for EACH CAR; so raffle ticket purchaser gets three chances to win a Model 3?

How much would you care if it were, say, 3 cars instead of 2? Or 4 cars instead of 3?

Thanks,
Alan

I like the idea of 3 cars better than 2. 1st, 2nd, and 3rd all getting a car sounds good to me. Three 3s is strong on the theme of 3 as well, lol.

 

[wdolson]

It's a bit disappointing the top prize isn't a Model S/X, but being able to offer a couple of different Model 3 configurations is better overall. A base Model 3 is a heck of a nice consolation prize!

Though may I suggest that the prizes be Model 3s, one performance and the other closer to base, with an option for an equal credit towards a Model S or X. For the price of a Model 3P fully loaded someone could get a Model S 75D, or close to it. It would also go a long ways towards an S100D or X100D.

 

[Pollux]

Maybe - Max / Middle / Base? Although I prefer saying "Good / Better / Best".

Definitely would keep in mind fungibility, as the whole thing about not being able to get anyone, even Tesla, to donate the cars means that from the sponsoring organization's perspective it's really about allocating money. (Plus money for the taxes.) So, yeah, might be able to make it work out that first prize winner could choose an S 75D. And for all prizes, winner could always choose to kick in his/her own funds. The fact that we're paying such a large chunk of taxes on the prize -- and we're thinking we'd do that for ALL THREE prizes -- gives the winner way more flexibility.

Also, on delivery, Max / Mid / Base equates to 2-4 months / 2-4 months / who-fricking-knows-BUT-we-have-an-early-day1-reservation-maybe-it-still-would-help. I'm happy with that for Max/Mid, don't know how to make it any better for Base.

Or... maybe... just pay taxes on the grand prize? Probably means we'd have enough room to offer a fourth prize car. Maybe Max + Tax / Middle-no-tax / Base1-no-tax / Base2-no-tax.

I have to say, though, and this is totally a personal reaction, I just HATE the idea of giving a winner a pre-prize tax bill!!! What the heck! You win but first you have to cough up, mmm, roughly $15.5K for backup withholding on Mid, and $10K for Base? You're a hardworking person who makes $50K per year and you've just won third prize in the 2018 Carbon Pricing Raffle, which you've never heard of before, but you took a leap of faith to buy a $250 ticket, and now out of nowhere these guys are telling you you have to send them $10K **in advance** and THEN wait 2 or 4 or 6 months to get your car? Wow, does that feel bad.

But I guess if I heard from a lot of people that they would gladly send money in in advance in return for a 4th opportunity to win, I'd have to seriously consider it.

Alan

 

[Half Dollar Bill]

You have to settle on something to create the raffle prizes, but I don't know that I'd get locked in to specific vehicles. Some folks will want to use the money for an S or X and there will be folks like my brother last time. I bought him a ticket and he told me later that if he won he was just going to take the money. We didn't speak for a while after that.
I think I'd say 1st prize is this amount, and with it you can get a full spec 3 or a 75 S or....
For 2nd prize you can get.........
And just give people an idea and targets. It'll be their decision.
Holographic images on the raffle cards that change to reflect the different first prize options would be real cool, but probably prohibitive.

 

[MP3Mike]

But I guess if I heard from a lot of people that they would gladly send money in in advance in return for a 4th opportunity to win, I'd have to seriously consider it.

I really love that you guys have always included the tax in the prize.

 

[jmanning]

Pollux, really glad to support this again !!!!
Peter and Pollux let me know how I can be of assistance.....

 

[PeterK]

You have to settle on something to create the raffle prizes, but I don't know that I'd get locked in to specific vehicles. Some folks will want to use the money for an S or X and there will be folks like my brother last time. I bought him a ticket and he told me later that if he won he was just going to take the money. We didn't speak for a while after that.
I think I'd say 1st prize is this amount, and with it you can get a full spec 3 or a 75 S or....
For 2nd prize you can get.........
And just give people an idea and targets. It'll be their decision.
Holographic images on the raffle cards that change to reflect the different first prize options would be real cool, but probably prohibitive.

Bill, we'll let you ponder the holograms... as for the prizes, I expect we will continue the past approach. They have been described and priced as a specific car, but can always be optioned up or applied to a different model. I'm not sure about optioning down, Alan and I will have to consider. The alternative cash prizes have been lower, and taxes removed from the amount - we want to put people in cars, not just hand out cash.

I really love that you guys have always included the tax in the prize.

I agree, this was Alan's strong initial concept and is a distinguishing feature of this raffle. I think we would muddy things and hurt the raffle's image if we offered some prizes with taxes paid and others without - even if, by doing so, we could offer another car prize.

Pollux, really glad to support this again !!!!
Peter and Pollux let me know how I can be of assistance.....

Thanks, Jeff, we may enlist you to put a sticker on your car. With lots of Model 3s hitting the road we could have a much larger - and growing - fleet this year!

Keep the ideas and discussion coming!

 

[Polly Wog]

Since you are soliciting feedback, I would definitely prefer 3 main prizes (cars!) and raffle-paid taxes rather than additional prizes with winner-paid taxes. As others have said, the taxes-paid thing has always been one of the most distinctive features of this raffle, and I think you should keep it that way.

 

[Pollux]

@PollyWog, @MP3Mike - of course I love your feedback since it aligns with my own preference.

 

[Pollux]

How about this: one Grand Prize, no additional prizes at all. Taxes included, of course.

Grand Prize is 3 or maybe even 4 Model 3s. Winner designates who gets them -- winner could get all four, winner could keep one and give one each to spouse, favored child or grandchild (but I think we'd have to limit it to 18 years of age, not sure I want to get into the wrinkles of kids who are old enough to drive but not old enough to sign stuff), maybe a parent, maybe even a friend. Or give away/keep 2-3, take the rest as cash.

Note that Grand Prize would easily be fungible to a max'd out Model S or Model X.

"Win Teslas for your entire family!"

Alan