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I don't like that idea. I would prefer that the "wealth" be spread a little further... (The more separate families that get exposed to owning a EV/Tesla the better.)
I think the taxes paid thing is a nice feature of your raffle. Though if you could offer an extra car by not doing the taxes that might also be a good thing.
From my situation, if I did win and I could only get a Model 3, I would probably take the car and then immediately sell it. My SO does not like sedans, she's waiting to see what the Model Y looks like. She likes the concept of the Model X, but she finds it both too big and she hates the falcon wing doors. (From an art perspective she thinks they're cool looking, but she doesn't want them on her car.)
If we had a second Model S, I might be able to entice her to take it. She's not thrilled with the size, but it has the flexibility of a hatchback which she does like. My Model S has become the cargo car. We keep the back seats folded down 95% of the time.
Well, that's unanimous so far re preferring more prizes over single multi-car grand prize. Hmmm! 
@wdolson - as you probably realize, in the CPAR raffles you can also opt to take plain cash. However, the prizes are biased in that the amount of cash for the grand prize (and if we have 2nd and 3rd prizes be cars, those too) is less than the value of the car and we also don't pay the taxes on the cash award. We do this so that (1) we nudge people towards getting the car but (2) a hypothetical winner with a need for *immediate* cash can benefit immediately.
If you are looking to extract the maximum cash value from these prizes, the best thing to do is just as you suggest for yourself: accept the prize in the form of the car, with federal gift tax paid by us, then turn around and sell the car. You should be able to sell it for close to the original value, maybe minus the federal tax credit. But most importantly, I don't think you'll owe income tax on that sale, at least not at the federal level, as you'd be selling something whose taxes were already paid. But of course this is NOT a guarantee from us, your mileage may vary, consult your tax accountant, tax attorney, preferred religious advisor, etc.
@wdolson - as you probably realize, in the CPAR raffles you can also opt to take plain cash. However, the prizes are biased in that the amount of cash for the grand prize (and if we have 2nd and 3rd prizes be cars, those too) is less than the value of the car and we also don't pay the taxes on the cash award. We do this so that (1) we nudge people towards getting the car but (2) a hypothetical winner with a need for *immediate* cash can benefit immediately.
If you are looking to extract the maximum cash value from these prizes, the best thing to do is just as you suggest for yourself: accept the prize in the form of the car, with federal gift tax paid by us, then turn around and sell the car. You should be able to sell it for close to the original value, maybe minus the federal tax credit. But most importantly, I don't think you'll owe income tax on that sale, at least not at the federal level, as you'd be selling something whose taxes were already paid. But of course this is NOT a guarantee from us, your mileage may vary, consult your tax accountant, tax attorney, preferred religious advisor, etc.
1. No cash option. Winner can use the value for a Tesla upgrade but must accept a car.
2. Taxes paid, you can't easily get a loan for $30,000 to cover taxes.
3. I think three cars will all being the base is fine. The winner can easily upgrade. Performance, LR-RWD, SR-RWD.
Thanks for all the work you guys do on this.
2. Taxes paid, you can't easily get a loan for $30,000 to cover taxes.
3. I think three cars will all being the base is fine. The winner can easily upgrade. Performance, LR-RWD, SR-RWD.
Thanks for all the work you guys do on this.
Hi, @Trips, I like what you say.
All - someone recently pointed out that for ***non-***Tesla-oriented people... ordinary people... civilians, if you will... the Model S and Model X have a "cachet" of being "premium", "expensive", "top-notch". In some sectors of that universe, Model 3 might be known as the "less expensive" car, the "affordable" thing, i.e., somehow "less" than a Model S/X.
So... maybe the headliner still needs to be an S/X (convertible to a 3, of course, probably with some cash left over to spend on an awesome wrap and a surfboard and not-a-flamethrower from eBay). We might still be able to figure out a way to have a second prize Model 3, maybe even a third prize Model 3.
Reactions? Are S/X particularly emotive?
Also, what if the S/X were baseline models (still w/fed taxes paid of course), instead of previous two raffles use of mid-range models?
Thanks,
Alan
All - someone recently pointed out that for ***non-***Tesla-oriented people... ordinary people... civilians, if you will... the Model S and Model X have a "cachet" of being "premium", "expensive", "top-notch". In some sectors of that universe, Model 3 might be known as the "less expensive" car, the "affordable" thing, i.e., somehow "less" than a Model S/X.
So... maybe the headliner still needs to be an S/X (convertible to a 3, of course, probably with some cash left over to spend on an awesome wrap and a surfboard and not-a-flamethrower from eBay). We might still be able to figure out a way to have a second prize Model 3, maybe even a third prize Model 3.
Reactions? Are S/X particularly emotive?
Also, what if the S/X were baseline models (still w/fed taxes paid of course), instead of previous two raffles use of mid-range models?
Thanks,
Alan
I really like the idea of having three Teslas as prizes, so whatever needs to be done to achieve that is how you should go.
So maybe something like:
- Base Model S/X or a "Loaded" Performance Model 3
- LR AWD Model 3
- LR Model 3
@MP3Mike, I guess I'm thinking that we know enough about the SR M3 that it could be a base prize for a raffle ending late December. We have an early M3 reservation (first day line-waiter) that we could use in the hope that it would give priority for the winner's SR M3. But of course we can't guarantee anything, we're not Tesla, so if we built this prize it would come with a possibility that there would be a long delay between winning the prize and receiving the vehicle. There would also be some risk to Climate XChange, as we'd be assuming essentially $35K for the vehicle and another $1K for the doc & delivery fee and possibly, just possibly, a few additional $K in case there's an option that the winner wants. But basically no big buffer in case Tesla suddenly were to, say, change the anticipated base price of the SR M3.
While what you describe is in my mind one of the perfect prize pools, there's an additional issue: cost. We have to pay for all of these prizes as we are not fortunate enough to have superrich donors and/or donations from Tesla. AFAIK, Tesla just doesn't give cars to anyone for any charitable purpose. I am currently modeling exactly the scenario you describe -- it's why I asked whether people have emotional reactions to a base S/X versus the mid-range S/X we delivered in raffles #1 & #2 -- and trying to make the dollars work out.
OK, I admit it, what I really want to build is a grand prize that would be a MAXED OUT S/X or a MAXED OUT M3 and there's probably enough money left over if the winner took the MAXED OUT M3 that the winner could ALSO get ANOTHER M3, at the least a mid-range M3. So the grand prize winner would win TWO M3s. And THEN a second prize that's a mid-range M3, e.g., the LR AWD M3 w/PUP. And then a third prize that's a base M3 kicked up with SOMETHING, as I love the idea of kicking in some kind of option for that base M3. But I've run this scenario a number of times and don't see how CXC can afford it.
While we view the marketing and ad dollars that get spent on the raffle as doing "delicious double duty" because they are a primary way to generate exposure for carbon pricing (and at the risk of being incredibly repetitious, it's why we ultimately settled on Carbon Pricing Awareness Raffle because sometimes all you get to do is say the name, it's literally the only shot at planting the phrase "carbon pricing" in some people's brains) while also helping ticket sales and therefore helping fund this organization. So at the end of the raffle, there has to be money sitting in the pot to be spent on CXC's mission.
Thanks,
Alan
While what you describe is in my mind one of the perfect prize pools, there's an additional issue: cost. We have to pay for all of these prizes as we are not fortunate enough to have superrich donors and/or donations from Tesla. AFAIK, Tesla just doesn't give cars to anyone for any charitable purpose. I am currently modeling exactly the scenario you describe -- it's why I asked whether people have emotional reactions to a base S/X versus the mid-range S/X we delivered in raffles #1 & #2 -- and trying to make the dollars work out.
OK, I admit it, what I really want to build is a grand prize that would be a MAXED OUT S/X or a MAXED OUT M3 and there's probably enough money left over if the winner took the MAXED OUT M3 that the winner could ALSO get ANOTHER M3, at the least a mid-range M3. So the grand prize winner would win TWO M3s. And THEN a second prize that's a mid-range M3, e.g., the LR AWD M3 w/PUP. And then a third prize that's a base M3 kicked up with SOMETHING, as I love the idea of kicking in some kind of option for that base M3. But I've run this scenario a number of times and don't see how CXC can afford it.
While we view the marketing and ad dollars that get spent on the raffle as doing "delicious double duty" because they are a primary way to generate exposure for carbon pricing (and at the risk of being incredibly repetitious, it's why we ultimately settled on Carbon Pricing Awareness Raffle because sometimes all you get to do is say the name, it's literally the only shot at planting the phrase "carbon pricing" in some people's brains) while also helping ticket sales and therefore helping fund this organization. So at the end of the raffle, there has to be money sitting in the pot to be spent on CXC's mission.
Thanks,
Alan
Taking into account competing needs for attractiveness and affordability of the raffle prizes, I'm thinking they could look like Mike's list but maybe to save some $ the 2nd prize doesn't include AWD and the 3rd is standard battery.
Between the first-day reservation and Tesla's production ramp I think the winner would likely have it by mid-2019 - and much earlier if they put in $ to upgrade to the long range battery with premium upgrade package. If they were already saving up for the base model, I expect they might want to apply some of that money to upgrade the prize. The same goes for the 2nd prize winner. And it provides for three chances to win a car, while better differentiating the Grand Prize from the other two.
Between the first-day reservation and Tesla's production ramp I think the winner would likely have it by mid-2019 - and much earlier if they put in $ to upgrade to the long range battery with premium upgrade package. If they were already saving up for the base model, I expect they might want to apply some of that money to upgrade the prize. The same goes for the 2nd prize winner. And it provides for three chances to win a car, while better differentiating the Grand Prize from the other two.
Another quick question for all: how do you feel about including EAP in a prize but not FSD?
I confess that I am unhappy with how I've paid for EAP in December '16 and watched it stagger along since then. Yes, advertised as beta. But in my worldview, I don't think anyone should pay to be part of a beta program. At least now it's maybe approaching what was originally promised.
But FSD... wow... if I had paid for FSD when I bought my '16 S, I'd feel completely ripped off.
Alan
I confess that I am unhappy with how I've paid for EAP in December '16 and watched it stagger along since then. Yes, advertised as beta. But in my worldview, I don't think anyone should pay to be part of a beta program. At least now it's maybe approaching what was originally promised.
But FSD... wow... if I had paid for FSD when I bought my '16 S, I'd feel completely ripped off.
Alan
I think that is perfectly reasonable. If they really want it they can toss in some extra cash. (Or take off another option that you might have planned to be included.)
EAP being included would be great, but I don't think it is necessary. (If that helps to get you to having three cars as prizes.)
TintDepot.com
Member
For the raffle ending July 4, 2017, go to http://carbonraffle.org or Climate XChange Carbon Pricing Awareness Raffle and scroll down to see the list of winners and the picture of the Grand Prize winner and his car.
For the raffle ending the evening of December 31, 2015, with winning tickets drawn in the wee hours of January 1, 2016, go to the same website and click on the Raffle Details button in the header. There will be options for 2017 Raffle and 2015 Raffle. Select 2015 Raffle to see the info about 2015 winners. (Select the 2017 Raffle to see more about that one.)
Alan
P.S. The discussion we're currently having about prizes will feed into Climate XChange's third Carbon Pricing Awareness Raffle, later this year.
We’re still tweaking, but it looks very close to @MP3Mike’s list, with SR Model 3 for the 3rd prize:
The drawing is in the early hours of 1/1/19, so we will ensure prize delivery within 2019 - hopefully early in that window if Tesla starts base Model 3 production around yearend. We do have a Day 1 reservation to use if needed, but since all taxes are paid, I figure the winner could apply the $3750 Federal tax credit plus possible state rebate ($2500 here in MA) and trade-in/sale of an existing car to fund a Long Range upgrade if they want the car sooner.
We will be launching soon. I will start a new thread and link to it in the next few days.
3 cars - 3 chances to win a Tesla!
Hi all, we're coming down to the wire - just a few days until launch. ETA is Wednesday night Eastern time but we'll see...lots of activity because we're launching a new CXC website together with the raffle - I guess our team enjoy pushing themselves to the limit.
Plus on Thursday we're co-sponsoring a forum on carbon taxes (www.carbontaxforum.com) as part of the Global Climate Action Forum taking place all week, so our Executive Director is heading for San Francisco in a couple days. He's REALLY a glutton for punishment...
You can go to carbonraffle.org or climatexchangeraffle.org now, to see last year's results and register your email to receive a notification when we launch. I'll start the new thread when we're ready.
Hi all, we're coming down to the wire - just a few days until launch. ETA is Wednesday night Eastern time but we'll see...lots of activity because we're launching a new CXC website together with the raffle - I guess our team enjoy pushing themselves to the limit.
Plus on Thursday we're co-sponsoring a forum on carbon taxes (www.carbontaxforum.com) as part of the Global Climate Action Forum taking place all week, so our Executive Director is heading for San Francisco in a couple days. He's REALLY a glutton for punishment...
You can go to carbonraffle.org or climatexchangeraffle.org now, to see last year's results and register your email to receive a notification when we launch. I'll start the new thread when we're ready.
The Climate XChange 2018 Carbon Pricing Awareness Raffle just launched!
Discussion at 2018 Carbon Pricing Awareness Raffle - THREE Teslas!
Or go straight to 3rd Carbon Pricing Raffle
Discussion at 2018 Carbon Pricing Awareness Raffle - THREE Teslas!
Or go straight to 3rd Carbon Pricing Raffle
I have participated in this raffle the last two or three years and have enjoyed it every time. Never a winner but always a watcher of the drawing and participant in the on-line community of watchers which has brought me great joy to see so many others embracing the mission of Climate Exchange. I will certainly buy a ticket this year. If you decide to buy a ticket, be sure to watch the drawing on line on the drawing day and the time when they draw the tickets and participate in the on-line chat that takes place just before the drawing.
