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The public does not understand EV range

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You’re so wrong here. There is an excellent app called abetterrouteplanner that takes all of this information into account.
Never want to drive a fossil car again. No need to go to the petrolstation and having a fully charged car every morning. ❤️
I'm an engineer and I play with stuff like that. I make spreadsheets to compare breakeven costs and different vehicles. I'm used to flight planning as a private pilot, and my undergrad capstone project was trajectory optimization for a mission to an asteroid. My wife did a weighted-score spreadsheet to decide whether to marry me or not. Things like this are normal in our household.

The majority of the public doesn't do this however. And if you ever want the public to "buy in" on widespread EV adoption, we're going to need to find a better way to portray available range under realistic (not ideal) conditions to the average buyer who isn't a tech nerd, engineer, etc. And I would hope that info could be available in something like a table, rather than contributing to the de-literization of the population by taking one minute's reading and turning it into a 15 minute youtube video...
 
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I'm an engineer and I play with stuff like that. I make spreadsheets to compare breakeven costs and different vehicles. I'm used to flight planning as a private pilot, and my undergrad capstone project was trajectory optimization for a mission to an asteroid. My wife did a weighted-score spreadsheet to decide whether to marry me or not. Things like this are normal in our household. 😂😂😂

The majority of the public doesn't do this however. And if you ever want the public to "buy in" on widespread EV adoption, we're going to need to find a better way to portray available range under realistic (not ideal) conditions to the average buyer who isn't a tech nerd, engineer, etc. And I would hope that info could be available in something like a table, rather than contributing to the de-literization of the population by taking one minute's reading and turning it into a 15 minute youtube video...
ok, isn’t that what I’m offering you with this app? It’s taking into account all conditions and I can tell you the prognosis is quite accurate. At least in Europe.
 
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ok, isn’t that what I’m offering you with this app? It’s taking into account all conditions and I can tell you the prognosis is quite accurate. At least in Europe.
And here as well. I think @gtae07 's point is that the majority of people won't want to have to do that. They just want to get in and drive. And I'd argue that the vast majority of people won't HAVE to do any preplanning for their 90% usage of an EV. Just make sure you plug it in every night, and you have sufficient range for 90% of your needs. For your occasional road trip, you can do some preplanning using an app like ABRP (I do that) or just stop when the car tells you too. We are making things too complex for mass adoption by focusing on range and not enough on the use case for people 90% of the time, which is local use that is well within the range of most EV's currently on the market.
 
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And here as well. I think @gtae07 's point is that the majority of people won't want to have to do that. They just want to get in and drive. And I'd argue that the vast majority of people won't HAVE to do any preplanning for their 90% usage of an EV. Just make sure you plug it in every night, and you have sufficient range for 90% of your needs. For your occasional road trip, you can do some preplanning using an app like ABRP (I do that) or just stop when the car tells you too. We are making things too complex for mass adoption by focusing on range and not enough on the use case for people 90% of the time, which is local use that is well within the range of most EV's currently on the market.
That’s true. when people ask “ how long can you drive with this battery” I always say”until eternit, as long as I plug it in every night 😉
 
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And here as well. I think @gtae07 's point is that the majority of people won't want to have to do that. They just want to get in and drive. And I'd argue that the vast majority of people won't HAVE to do any preplanning for their 90% usage of an EV. Just make sure you plug it in every night, and you have sufficient range for 90% of your needs. For your occasional road trip, you can do some preplanning using an app like ABRP (I do that) or just stop when the car tells you too. We are making things too complex for mass adoption by focusing on range and not enough on the use case for people 90% of the time, which is local use that is well within the range of most EV's currently on the market.

Totally agree. I think there is too much focus on range of the battery. We never worry about the gas tank size with ICE because we know gas stations are readily available and refuel is less than 10 minutes to 100%. This is what we need to achieve with charging infrastructure and technology.

The disappointment comes when the range isn't as advertised in Tesla's website which I think it's really silly since no ICE car would match EPA MPG (and that's always with *estimated.) Then I hear the argument that EV is about range, not MPG (that isn't the point of the comparison) or the range loss is dramatic. If the loss of range under various condition bothers you, then you shouldn't be in the EV market. Instead of focusing on numbers, tables or excel sheets, one should just think about whether the car meets 90% of your driving requirement, you should make your decision based on that. If that doesn't work, you can always sell your MY, maybe even make a profit out of it.
 
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refuel is less than 10 minutes to 100%. This is what we need to achieve with charging infrastructure and technology.
That's a misconception we need to remember to remind people about. Recharging my car takes 5 seconds. That is WAY faster and more convenient than having to go to a filling station and stand around waiting for 10 minutes. And this is what people really do most of the time, week in and week out, where the normal everyday use of the car most of the year is not out of town traveling trips.

That's the tradeoff you get. The majority of the use is far more convenient with an EV, but then the trips are a bit less convenient. Wouldn't people rather have the majority of their use of a product be more convenient?
 
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only 5 seconds ... but I bet you can't get one of those sausage things that sit on the rollers all day
I love gas station food. That's why I always love stopping to charge at Giddings. Can't wait for Tesla to start adding chargers to Buc'ces. We did a trip up North last year. This was around the same time as the pipeline was shut down due to a ransomware. Many superchargers out East and North East are at refueling stations. It was a sad day for people in line waiting for what little gas was available. Felt very privileged driving around the long line, plugging in at the refueling stations.
 
There are many spreadsheets depicting speed vs temperature vs range. I would start with that to educate the new crowd. Bottom line, faster speeds, and low temperatures would considerably impact your range. In order to achieve EPA estimates, one would have to drive 45mph and perfect 60-80F weather, no wind.
 
For next time, try preconditioning while plugged in for ~20 minutes before starting out. I would skip the Emporia Supercharger as the outbound destination. (Preconditioning for over an hour while heading to the Emporia Supercharger definitely impacted your efficiency and range.) You might need to stop at the Emporia Supercharger for ~10 minutes as you start the return trip.

Tire pressure (not noted), if low, will negatively impact your range; keep tires inflated to the recommended 42 PSI (take tire pressure readings when the tires are cold, i.e. the Tesla has been driven less than 1/2 mile) or a few pounds more.

Even a light headwind will negatively impact your efficiency.

Use the seat heaters, steering wheel heater more and keep the cabin temperature a few degrees lower, i.e 70-71F. Set the HVAC to recirculate the cabin air unless/until the windows start to fog, then turn off recirculate setting for a while until the windows clear. Set the Tesla adaptive cruise control to 70 MPH.
Thanks for a very helpful response!
 
There are many spreadsheets depicting speed vs temperature vs range. I would start with that to educate the new crowd. Bottom line, faster speeds, and low temperatures would considerably impact your range. In order to achieve EPA estimates, one would have to drive 45mph and perfect 60-80F weather, no wind.

Agree.
Two different data points;
2020 Model Y
Temperature
1646241961752.png

Speed
1646242008938.png


2018 Model X

Temperature
1646242086533.png

Speed
1646242115037.png
 
And here as well. I think @gtae07 's point is that the majority of people won't want to have to do that. They just want to get in and drive. And I'd argue that the vast majority of people won't HAVE to do any preplanning for their 90% usage of an EV. Just make sure you plug it in every night, and you have sufficient range for 90% of your needs. For your occasional road trip, you can do some preplanning using an app like ABRP (I do that) or just stop when the car tells you too. We are making things too complex for mass adoption by focusing on range and not enough on the use case for people 90% of the time, which is local use that is well within the range of most EV's currently on the market.

Some people on here are too young to remember the days before GPS navigation. We are in exactly the same position with our EVs today that EVERYONE was in before "Garmin" was a word. An ICE car back in the day was good for 90+% of your driving, but long trips required pre-planning... true, this was not for fuel reasons, but for route planning. Back in the day we had ABRP as well... sort of... Anyone remember submitting a start point and destination to AAA and getting a route plan on a packet of paper maps? You could either do that or just buy state maps for all the states you planned to drive through on your trip and local maps for any destination you were going to spend some time in.

Keith
 
Anyone remember submitting a start point and destination to AAA and getting a route plan on a packet of paper maps? You could either do that or just buy state maps for all the states you planned to drive through on your trip and local maps for any destination you were going to spend some time in.
We never had AAA, but we also didn't buy a bunch of separate state maps. We had the big ole Rand McNally Road Atlas!
(OMFG! You can STILL buy them!!!)
It was a giant paperback book about two feet tall that had maps of all 50 states and zoomed maps of the major cities. Bad. Ass.
 
We never had AAA, but we also didn't buy a bunch of separate state maps. We had the big ole Rand McNally Road Atlas!
(OMFG! You can STILL buy them!!!)
It was a giant paperback book about two feet tall that had maps of all 50 states and zoomed maps of the major cities. Bad. Ass.
I still have one from 2005 - but I also used to get the TripTik from AAA. In 1988, my wife and I did a 2,000 mile loop out west over 2 weeks - the TripTik for that one was pretty big, as I recall.....
 
We never had AAA, but we also didn't buy a bunch of separate state maps. We had the big ole Rand McNally Road Atlas!
(OMFG! You can STILL buy them!!!)
It was a giant paperback book about two feet tall that had maps of all 50 states and zoomed maps of the major cities. Bad. Ass.
We had that as well, but the folded up maps un-folded to around 4 to 6 times the size of the maps in the Road Atlas. I don't think we were AAA members when we got our trip plan, I think it was a free service even to non-members back then to encourage you to join, either that or I joined for that one year and forgot about it in the intervening decades :)

Keith
 
People tend to stack all the negatives about EVs and use that to justify continuting to burn hydrocarbons to drive.

Only charge to 80/90%, headwinds, driving fast, cold temps, rain, battery degration, wife/kids do not to wait, etc.
This can make the case that an EV will not work for them in "Real World Conditions"

They rarely take the same stance with ICE. What if the only gas station along the way is out of gas or closed, what if you get TWO flat tires, what if your car will not restart when you stop to fill up, what if you put in diesel instead of proper gasoline, what if their credit card reader is down and you don't have enough cash, what if you get water in your fuel, what if your gas line freezes, what if you flood your motor, what if your timing chain breaks, what if you get bad gas...etc.

In my life, I have run out of gasoline several times, but never ran out of juice since switching to EVs. AAA has a huge fleet of trucks (also heavy polluters) driving around day after day, providing fuel for ICE owners that run out of gasoline. Poor planning can effect us all from time to time.

Most EV owners simply figure out how to get from one place to another. They learn to slow down a little if the computer tells them to. They plan routes with convenient charging options, they fill to 100% if the range is tight. In other words they learn to adapt to the strengths and weakness of EV travel.

Most governments are working to signifcantly reduce the billions of gassers on the road. They understand that while they are convenient, the pollutions they spew are causing lots of health issues, especially in congested Urban areas. People are getting sick and lifespans are being reduced. Society will need to find a way to a cleaner future.
 
The vast majority of the general public have no experience with the ev and the factors effecting range. They think of EV range as they would with an ICE vehicle. They assume the more highway driving the better the mileage. The public has no idea that just the opposite is true with EVs given the advances in regenerative braking and its' absence at continuous highway speeds. They also are unaware that Tesla's range estimates are primarily for city driving. The best range is achieved when closest to home driving in city traffic and very near your primary charging location. They don't understand that range is only important for long distance highway travel.

The prospective ev buyer can save thousands of dollars by forgoing 350+ range ev's, if the vehicle is to be used primarily as a commuter. For the few times they travel cross country, there will be a few more charging stops which should be easier to rationalize given the saving of $10.000.00 plus dollars.
I agree, the savings alone is leading me into a Tesla for my wife.....She is freaked out about the range, so I have taken the appropriate steps to ensure her roughly 15 mile daily round trip drive (work/son's school) will never be a problem. I have ordered the Tesla Wall Connector.....Easy access to charging at home any day she wants. She said it was ok to buy an EV, if it was beneficial to our household long term, absolutely it is! OD Feb 2022/EDD Aug 2022
I told her learn how to open the car, put it in drive and put it in park, don't ever worry about charging/mileage, I will handle that 👍