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the reason I didn't buy a Taycan Turbo S but opted for a 911 in the end

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by Jverhelst, Mar 29, 2020.

  1. Jverhelst

    Jverhelst Member

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    I'm writing this post, mostly because I've been struggling with this alot and maybe, just maybe I'm not the only one ;)

    Currently I'm driving a Tesla Model S 100D. I 've done about 70.000km.


    One of the reasons I wanted to buy a Taycan is because the Model S has had many issues. The most important things: I got 2 new headlight (complete units), HVAC unit replaced, new front suspension (twice), new headliner, GPS *antenna*, many different rattles some solved others not.

    There are also things about the model S that bug me : steering feel : it judders at higher speeds.. according to the service center this is normal and due to 21 inch rims. Spotify does only work like 10% of the time. Also AP, while being awesome a few years back, it seems like it worked better back then than it does now.. I almost don't use it anymore. The suspension isn't very refined. it's just not a refined car. But I bought it in a time there were no other options and I really wanted to experience electric driving.. it seemed it would be the future (notice the past tense)

    Also I dreaded the experience in the service center, more specific they 're not friendly, they act like you are nitwit who knows *sugar*... for example I asked 10 times to replace the complete processing unit because it seems not normal to me that spotify isn't working and they just say it's a bug, while ofcourse it's not because others don't have any problem at all..

    Because I really like the EV drivetrain I was looking into the Taycan. I 've done around 6-7 test drives with the 4S and Turbo S. I'm not going into detail but let me suffice by saying that the model S doesn't even compare when it comes to driving charasteristics, build quality and general feel. it's like driving a proper (sports)car - it's not a sports car at all but that's another issue - that happens to be electric vs a car that you like because it's an EV but if you 're being honest it doesn't drive very well at all.

    I was set on ordering the Turbo S but then I started my train of thought, there is also the issue I've had while driving the model S, it's just no fun at all... it gets you from point A to B but never ever have I thought : let's take the model S to have some fun.. no it's always been used to get me from A to B... and I had the feeling it would be the same for the Taycan... it drives a tonload better and it is more fun.. but essentially it's not a fun car, it 'll also be a car to get you from point A to B.. it's not engaging, it weighs even more than a model S albeit the driving dynamics are from another world, really world class.... with one caveat : it's world class for an EV.. not for a car.

    Then there is also the biggest EV related problem/issue : the battery, first battery degredation : yes it's real.. very real and yes it does heavily affect the range.. I reckon I lost about 11-12kwh ( 450km when fully charged compared to 508km when new, mind you... those numbers you don't reach in real life) Secondly, the impact of cold weather and the use of the heater. If you do alot of short drives the range doesn't even reach 200km ! there is so much energy being wasted to heat up the battery (and the cabin) certainly the first 40-50km of your drive. I think worst case scenerio last year I did around 150km on one charge, spread over 5 days and it was not even freezing, but close.

    Ofcourse there is also the impact of speed on your range. In my humble opinion a Taycan is a Porsche and a Porsche has one special trait : the faster you drive it the better it actually drives, it's like they are made to go fast... now what use does a taycan have then when if you drive it fast and spirited like it's meant to be driven you are maybe left with 150km of range...

    Lastly - in Europe at least - the network of fastchargers isn't dense at all... you really have to look for 300kw chargers...

    Because all of this I've actually ordered a 911 instead. It weighs around 800kg less, I don't have to worry about charging anymore. I can go on road trips in places I wouldn't be able to go with the Taycan. It's more fun to drive... I do plan to keep the model S for now.. but that's just because the resale value is horrendous ( price that I payed was 125.000 EURO, second hand value at this moment.. around 65.000)
     
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  2. 2Pearls

    2Pearls Member

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    Jverhelst, Hello, you have made a fine choice with your 911. Probably one of the best sports cars on the market. However, I should ask if you bought your Tesla used, reading all of the problems you had? I am sorry you have had all of those problems as the Tesla is a great car, on a different paradigm then almost all cars at twice the price. And, you never need to go to a gas station. I have had 3 Tesla’s ( 85, P90D and a P3D track mode) and all have been excellent with hardly ever a problem. I should also mention that the P3D handles very well and is quick. Not top end, but certainly from 0-80. I also track some of my cars (own a 911, GTR, C63 AMG 507, S2000) and although the P3D does not handle quite as well as those cars on the track, it is still excellent. My point in giving you these details is that I have my deposit down on a Porsche Taycan ( hopefully expected by May/June, but with Covid-19, it will be delayed) I test drove it a couple of times and I can tell you, from my perspective ( we all have different wants and needs with the cars we purchase), the Taycan was phenomenal. Porsche, considering the weight, did build a 4 door sports car that would go up against any sports car or EV in the world. This is not taking anything away from Tesla, as they have also built a car that competes with any other car out there, whether it is EV or ICE.

    regarding your question on range, 1st off, with a Tesla or the new Taycan, you plug in at night and you have a full tank of electricity in the morning. I am not sure how many miles you drive in a day, but I like to drive and have never had a problem with range. Plus, with the Tesla, you have superchargers (at least in the states) every 80-140 miles, so I can charge just I like would go to a gas station with an ICE. Sure, I have to wait longer, but that is a sacrifice I will make to be slightly better for the environment. But you also mentioned that with the Taycan, you were afraid of spirited driving and you would not have the range you want. I can tell you that when I track my 911, the range goes down quite quickly and if I am driving fast, I would state that I would be lucky if I get 140 miles per tank while I am tracking and driving aggressively. The Taycan seems ( by everything I have read and because of the 2 speed transmission) to have a decent range ( not as good as the tesla, but close) of about 270+ miles, which is plenty for most daily commutes. And, they are trying (not great so far from what I read) to build out a charging network throughout Europe and the US (through EV America in the States)

    Finally,, I should add that the Porsche has excellent build quality, but you are paying for that as the price tag is at least 2x the cost of a Tesla, so, Porsche has built a fine EV, actually a fine car in the Taycan. You will not have the same technology that you have in the Tesla, but that was not Porsche’s goal. Porsche’s goal was wanting to build the best sports car possible, that also happens to be an EV.
     
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  3. TSLA Pilot

    TSLA Pilot Active Member

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    Yes, Jverhelst, we can all see how you have suffered greatly with your Model S. Oh the pain!

    For now, it appears you can continue to dump GHG's without worry or guilt--it's apparently only for others to care about our only planet? If so, then please, do not cancel your 911 order.

    If you do wish to open your eyes and mind, then perhaps you'll learn something here:

    NASA: Climate Change and Global Warming
     
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  4. azred

    azred Active Member

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    So a Model S owner who has almost never posted here spent 15 minutes writing a goodbye to us. Very odd, but thoughtful.
     
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  5. Jverhelst

    Jverhelst Member

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    I don't disagree with you... the Taycan is an awesome car, luke you said... considering the weight... ;)

    I test drove it more than once and I almost put a deposit down for the Turbo S but EV's they just miss something. The joy of driving I guess. That's completely absent in a Model S.

    I didn't buy used btw.

    Also I live in a city center and can't always charge the car overnight so I mostly rely on superchargers, this would be harder with the Taycan cause of the lack of fast chargers in Europe...

    I wish you safe and happy travels in your upcoming Taycan and I understand you buying one seeing what you already have in your garage! ;)

    If I had already a 911, C63 etc... ofcourse a Taycan would have it's place. But if you 're like me - at this moment a one car garage - I guess you would have made a different decision.

    After 70.000 km in the Model S I feel like "ok... I 've experienced an electric car... now I'll wait 5-10 years before getting another one and for the time being will enjoy driving some fun cars while it's still possible"

    I have to admit a M3P does drive so much better than a model S.. and a Taycan drives even better, but soul electrified? not really.

    What you say about range : yeah sure.. you could get 270 miles in a Taycan given you drive it frugal. a 992 with 90L fuel tank should get me 550 miles with same driving style. But that wasn't really my point.. driving in remote places doesn't' really work with an EV.
     
  6. lotusland

    lotusland Member

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    I honestly cannot imagine moving from my P3D to any ICE vehicle, no matter the pedigree. ICE offers neither more soul nor more fun for me, instead it is simply a giant step backwards. I'm a car guy and love to drive -- this is the first time I have felt that I have the perfect car. Good luck with your Porsche.
     
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  7. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 Porsche 918 Hybrid

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    I agree with your analysis... the 911 is a real sports car that is a blast to drive fast... there is no substitute!
    I also enjoy the Tesla for long-distance grand touring with the occasional stop to supercharge.
     
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  8. wreighven

    wreighven Member

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    Yeah I went the opposite direction as this dude. My last sports car was a 911 (Targa 4S), and I feel reconnected to the driving experience in my X for the first time since I left that vehicle. Yes, it's "different" (no visceral exhaust note, and I really miss open top driving), but the otherworldly "whoosh" of the electric motors is really fun!
     
  9. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 Porsche 918 Hybrid

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    Agreed... electric is where it's at. Can't wait for the 911 EV. :cool:
     
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  10. Uncle Paul

    Uncle Paul Well-Known Member

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    911's are indeed fun to drive. They will feel right at home in Germany.

    Some of the crowded Urban areas will not let you enter in a gasser. You will need to park out at the ring road and take a bus in.

    Don't believe the newer 911's with water cooling sound good at all. Wheezy sounding motor.
     
  11. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 Porsche 918 Hybrid

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    I could not have said it better myself. I really enjoy driving my 993... last of the air-cooled forever! :cool:
    Let's hope the faithful will be able to gather again at Laguna Seca for the Rennsport reunion this year.
     
  12. XLR82XS

    XLR82XS D M C

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    Air-cooled 930/964/993: :D:D:D:D
     
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  13. lotusland

    lotusland Member

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    The 911 EV variant will at last allow Porsche to fix the 911. All these years of putting the motor in the wrong place, unable to fix it without admitting an error and annoying a rabid fanbase -- this is a perfect opportunity for them. The low-and-long form that a big battery offers will make the 911 EV far more capable than any ICE 911 could ever be.
     
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  14. Uncle Paul

    Uncle Paul Well-Known Member

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    Interesting that there are still so many enthusiasts that evidently do not care about polluting the environment or the price they pay for their cars.

    For them, it is all about selfish pleasure. They want to experience the fun and thrill of a high powered sports car, but have not kept up with the new reality that it poisons the air.

    Many enthusiasts complain that they can no longer enjoy Autobahn unlimited speed cruising, as most all the roads near city centers now have speed limits and speed cameras. Fuel costs are high and there are less and less areas where unlimited speed is permitted.
    Also, German Autobahns are now often congested and crawling along, where the ability to use their sports cars are severly limited.

    OP is right. These are the last dying days of unlimited speeds and long distance high speed travel. He is going to get on last try at it with his Porsche 911. Next generation of Germans will look back on these days as foolish.
     
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  15. 67King

    67King Member

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    I've owned 4 Porsches, 2 of them race cars (still own one race car and one street car), and frankly, I can't imagine ever going back to an ICE car as a daily driver after having had my M3P for a while. No worries about #2 rod bearings, IMS bearings, crank lubrication issues, overheating issues, etc. Or the pretentiousness of being told that the Americanized pronunciation of a car is wrong, and that is should be the "German" (rather than Deutsch) pronunciation.

    That said - the best thing Tesla/Musk did for the environmentally minded people was to make an electric car that appeals to those who are not motivated by the same things. It is all a matter of degree. Using electronics for entertainment (i.e. reading a forum) on balance introduces greenhouse gasses into the environment, so.......
     
  16. FlatSix911

    FlatSix911 Porsche 918 Hybrid

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  17. Just a Reader

    Just a Reader Member

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    Buyer of 2.5 ton car preaches on the environment. Not quite in the same league as the A-lister who flies in with his huge private jet to tell the audience that they all have to cut back to save the environment, but it's basically the same attitude. I dare to say that when it comes to the use of natural resources Tesla buyers are easily among the top 5% of consumers globally.

    We may return to that issue once CA has managed to build anything that resembles a decent public transport system, including a high speed rail line between its main urban centres.
     
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