The recent battery range limitation furore

[vitesse]

As most of you will probably know, there is an almighty row going on amongst rattled owners who have seen their battery range chopped by as much as 10 percent overnight after a recent software update.

I'll leave the full argument to others but after reading a lot of comments on Facebook, especially now owners who haven't been dealt this blow are speaking up, it seems to be clear that if you do a lot of DC charging, even the lower power (compared supercharging) chademo charging, you run a significantly greater risk of getting the sudden restriction.

From what I can see, Tesla has simply extended its policy of slowing the maximum supercharging rate of those who frequently DC-charge to limiting the maximum charge level of their batteries. The scope also appears to drag significantly more cars into the limited category.

I was never going to use Superchargers frequently myself and I'm now determined not to - only on long trips. My only concern is that I don't know how much the previous owner of my 70D DC-charged the car. I do know who that person is so I will probably ask him! But at least Our car has not been affected - so far.

 

[zayn]

not heard of this , is it model 3 related ? afaik most folks on here are only concerned with Model 3 related issues

 

[vitesse]

not heard of this , is it model 3 related ? afaik most folks on here are only concerned with Model 3 related issues

Model S and X 60, 70, 85 and possibly 75 and 90 kWh packs. However, I think M3 owners should take heed...

 

[Matias]

Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

 

[DJP31]

I'll leave the full argument to others but after reading a lot of comments on Facebook, especially now owners who haven't been dealt this blow are speaking up, it seems to be clear that if you do a lot of DC charging, even the lower power (compared supercharging) chademo charging, you run a significantly greater risk of getting the sudden restriction.

You are confusing two things. The most recent furore concerns a relatively few older packs and is Tesla’s response to the China car park fire. AFAIUI they found one damaged cell and have reduced the accessible pack causing the overnight range reduction. Older 85kW’s in the main and I don’t blame the owners being up in arms and as usual Tesla have/are making a complete of the comms - or lack of.

The link posted by @Matias is very helpful for those that want the full detail.

The DC charging restriction will not result in a sudden reduction of range. It throttles the speed of Supercharging and is to protect the pack against excessive degradation, which would long term affect the range. This was first discovered a year or so ago and this extract from a Service Centre report explains it:

“The DC charge limiting is set to start at 2625 kWh and reaches maximum derating at 13125 kWh."

This wasn’t explained well by Tesla either.

 

[vitesse]

My observation is that those unaffected don't do much DC charging while those that are affected, usually admit to doing more DC charging than average.

Anecdotally, it seems to be more than just a few older pscks.

 

[Rob R]

You are confusing two things. The most recent furore concerns a relatively few older packs and is Tesla’s response to the China car park fire. AFAIUI they found one damaged cell and have reduced the accessible pack causing the overnight range reduction. Older 85kW’s in the main and I don’t blame the owners being up in arms and as usual Tesla have/are making a complete of the comms - or lack of.

The link posted by @Matias is very helpful for those that want the full detail.

The DC charging restriction will not result in a sudden reduction of range. It throttles the speed of Supercharging and is to protect the pack against excessive degradation, which would long term affect the range. This was first discovered a year or so ago and this extract from a Service Centre report explains it:

“The DC charge limiting is set to start at 2625 kWh and reaches maximum derating at 13125 kWh."

This wasn’t explained well by Tesla either.

Interesting. So that would mean you get about 50 Supercharges/DC rapid charges (of 50 kWh), or maybe 100 top-ups before they started to cork you. Good to know.

 

[Alset2go]

I have only had my car 12 weeks or so (MS 100d) and do not supercharge on the whole.
However,I am about to receive my first referral with (1000 miles free supercharging).Now,after reading this, those buying cars with free for life supercharging or free 1000/5000 mile SCing may see it as a slightly less attractive proposition..

I get the response to a safety issue and that must be paramount,but selling a car a few years back with free SCing for life as an attraction?.

Well,I know how I would feel.

 

[vitesse]

As I said before, all I'm doing is examining a trend in comments I'm reading via social media.

This morning a P100D owner is reporting similar range reduction to the others. He also supercharges most of the time and his car has only done 10K miles.

This does nothing to allay my concerns that it's DC charging that is at the heart of this debate and it seems to be regardless of battery pack model.

I hate conspiracy theories and I have no interest in stoking one. I'm just making an observation to contribute to the debate in order that the whole truth can be realised. At the bottom line, I want to avoid getting our car range reduced as it's starting off with a modest battery (70D).

 

[PDB33]

You are confusing two things. The most recent furore concerns a relatively few older packs and is Tesla’s response to the China car park fire. AFAIUI they found one damaged cell and have reduced the accessible pack causing the overnight range reduction. Older 85kW’s in the main and I don’t blame the owners being up in arms and as usual Tesla have/are making a complete of the comms - or lack of.

The link posted by @Matias is very helpful for those that want the full detail.

The DC charging restriction will not result in a sudden reduction of range. It throttles the speed of Supercharging and is to protect the pack against excessive degradation, which would long term affect the range. This was first discovered a year or so ago and this extract from a Service Centre report explains it:

“The DC charge limiting is set to start at 2625 kWh and reaches maximum derating at 13125 kWh."

This wasn’t explained well by Tesla either.

Is there a way to see DC kWh charged for the vehicle to date? I can't see it in my Tesla account (have free supercharging, so no billing).

 

[vitesse]

I have only had my car 12 weeks or so (MS 100d) and do not supercharge on the whole.
However,I am about to receive my first referral with (1000 miles free supercharging).Now,after reading this, those buying cars with free for life supercharging or free 1000/5000 mile SCing may see it as a slightly less attractive proposition..

I get the response to a safety issue and that must be paramount,but selling a car a few years back with free SCing for life as an attraction?.

Well,I know how I would feel.

My expectation (and hope!) Is that DC charging is OK as long as you don't over-do it. The P100D owner I've chatted to, who believes he's seeing a sudden range loss, says he uses superchargers 65% of the time as he doesn't have a charge point at home. That's a lot. The rest of the time he charges AC at work.

 

[thegruf]

Is there a way to see DC kWh charged for the vehicle to date? I can't see it in my Tesla account (have free supercharging, so no billing).

^this is the question.

if I was looking to buy a secondhand Tesla and I intended to use it regularly for long trips ie supercharging, I would expect the value of the vehicle would be substantially affected by (approaching) supercharging limitation.

I asked an SC exactly this question a while back and 1) they hadnt even heard of the issue and thought I must be mistaken 2) they do not have access to this information, only the mothership knows.

Just how many times do Tesla have to mess up communication and make a major problem for themselves where there was no need to.

 

[thegruf]

Anecdotally I do have concerns that VW deciding that charge rates are the only way they can beat Tesla (and therfore force the entire market) is a high risk strategy.
If they ever do deliver on 350KW charging that is equivalent to a row of 5 industrial units pulling maximum load (100A,400V 3 phase), or perhaps more typically the power demand of a small industrial area with 10 factory units all going into one car!

That is a LOT of power and while technology can mitigate the risk it is still a LOT of power in an outdoor environment with non-specialist users and things will go wrong.

A third of a megawatt can heat stuff very quickly indeed. Expect more fires and accidents in future.

That there have been so few fires with Tesla is frankly remarkable given how hard they have pushed technology initially as a startup then as the first volume manufacturer of large pack high charge rate vehicles.

 

[DJP31]

Is there a way to see DC kWh charged for the vehicle to date? I can't see it in my Tesla account (have free supercharging, so no billing).

You can see it if you have something like TeslaFi, although that only works from the date you started to subscribe. This is mine, albeit missing a few months of early ownership.

I have no doubt Tesla know exactly how much charging has been DC/AC, whether you’d ever get an answer I doubt.

Based on my usage I’m on the cusp of reaching the start point for throttling, probably over given my first few months aren’t recorded. I’ve noticed no reducing in charge rate, in fact I’ve seen the higher ever recently, topping out at 116kW thanks to the recent update. Previously 96kW was my maximum.