The recent price drop

[Dennisis]

Hey


*sigh* many words confuse.

My car randomly accelerates and brakes, it chimes and dings at nothing and disengages adaptive cruise control. It brakes and kicks out of 'autopilot' (marketing jargon for adaptive cruise control +lane assist) randomly but predominately at night. The Acceleration has been less random: in stop or go traffic at dusk. the vehicle will suddenly accelerate because it doesn't see a line of cars in front of it. If I wasn't manually braking, the vehicle would be a road hazard... no other car in the road I know of is struggling to use adaptive following this way. My 2015 Model S did not have this issue.

I did not sign up for a beta test. I did not buy FSD. This is the base feature, autopilot - and the same sensors are what the safety systems rely on. I owned a 2015 Model S, I know what autopilot is and what it isn't. This is NOT autopilot or what I was sold. I was told this Model 3 LR had an 'upgraded sensor package' and that it was safer than my 2015 Model S.

It is demonstrably not safer and the autopilot does not function as promised. It is not usable, especially at night, when I earn. I cannot have passengers in the car with an unsafe vehicle, or one that's freaking out or seemingly not under my control. Beyond that, I don't feel safe driving it. Maybe it's a lemon, maybe it's a systemic problem... IDK. All I know is I want them to take it back.

Tesla canceled my last service appointment after a tech insisted there would be a software update but that there was no ETA. He told me I knew what I was getting into when I bought it - which enraged me. That is a lie. I was told this vehicle was safe and that it had autopilot (adaptive cruise control) and the feature does not work as advertised NOR how it works in other Tesla products. They admit it's an issue - that it compromises safety - but are insisting I knew that somehow before driving it in various conditions... when Tesla Corporate was purposefully suppressing information from third parties about the hardware insufficiencies.

Tesla is lying today and cannot make my car work or deliver on the product they sold me in the show room. And rather than fix the problem after the new cameras and ultrasonics leak... they cut the MSRP 20%. They have harmed me and are selling cutrate products, but worse - they overcharged me egregiously and sold me on something that they knew was a lie at the time.

And they intend to do nothing about it. While sycophants laugh.

Not sure who you’re referring to but I haven’t seen anyone laugh at you here. But here is from the manual:

 

[CharlieMY]

Hey


*sigh* many words confuse.

My car randomly accelerates and brakes, it chimes and dings at nothing and disengages adaptive cruise control. It brakes and kicks out of 'autopilot' (marketing jargon for adaptive cruise control +lane assist) randomly but predominately at night. The Acceleration has been less random: in stop or go traffic at dusk. the vehicle will suddenly accelerate because it doesn't see a line of cars in front of it. If I wasn't manually braking, the vehicle would be a road hazard... no other car in the road I know of is struggling to use adaptive following this way. My 2015 Model S did not have this issue.

I did not sign up for a beta test. I did not buy FSD. This is the base feature, autopilot - and the same sensors are what the safety systems rely on. I owned a 2015 Model S, I know what autopilot is and what it isn't. This is NOT autopilot or what I was sold. I was told this Model 3 LR had an 'upgraded sensor package' and that it was safer than my 2015 Model S.

It is demonstrably not safer and the autopilot does not function as promised. It is not usable, especially at night, when I earn. I cannot have passengers in the car with an unsafe vehicle, or one that's freaking out or seemingly not under my control. Beyond that, I don't feel safe driving it. Maybe it's a lemon, maybe it's a systemic problem... IDK. All I know is I want them to take it back.

Tesla canceled my last service appointment after a tech insisted there would be a software update but that there was no ETA. He told me I knew what I was getting into when I bought it - which enraged me. That is a lie. I was told this vehicle was safe and that it had autopilot (adaptive cruise control) and the feature does not work as advertised NOR how it works in other Tesla products. They admit it's an issue - that it compromises safety - but are insisting I knew that somehow before driving it in various conditions... when Tesla Corporate was purposefully suppressing information from third parties about the hardware insufficiencies.

Tesla is lying today and cannot make my car work or deliver on the product they sold me in the show room. And rather than fix the problem after the new cameras and ultrasonics leak... they cut the MSRP 20%. They have harmed me and are selling cutrate products, but worse - they overcharged me egregiously and sold me on something that they knew was a lie at the time.

And they intend to do nothing about it. While sycophants laugh.

I feel you. I have a 4 year old volvo hybrid with autopilot that works fantastic and I’m the one time someone jumped into traffic and I would have hit them on my own the car took over and safely but quickly engaged the brakes and saved me. If Elon didn’t slash the price on the new model Y’s I would have sold this year and purchased something else.

 

[TheareticalOne]

Not sure who you’re referring to but I haven’t seen anyone laugh at you here.

I can feel Elons smug face laughing at tricking me into debt unloading a non-functioning, unsafe car on me. I should calm down. I struggle to keep calm because at my core... I know I am nobody. That Tesla will likely get away with all this while I am left a fool, paying for their mistakes. That they'll keep selling lies and I'll be stuck with this car as a badge of shame, never working the way it should. Working to pay it off. Not to mention all the laugh reacts!

It feels like everybody is laughing at me... even Tesla... for being foolish enough to trust what Tesla was selling. I hate it.

 

[WhiteOnWhiteMY]

Not sure who you’re referring to but I haven’t seen anyone laugh at you here. But here is from the manual:

View attachment 896861

Here is my issue with this. This is hidden away in the owner's manual, typically looked at post-purchase. I see no effort by Tesla to promote the basic autopilot functionality as Beta. I was unaware this feature that has been touted for years was still considered Beta. Looking on the order page, basic autopilot sure sounds like it's a full release, not Beta.

Sure, FSD, definitely Beta. But Basic Autopilot? No way was that ever made clear to me. I even found it funny that there was a waiver we had to agree to when we enabled the autopilot setting in the vehicle. I assumed it was a liability waiver in the event of a wreck, but now I am unsure if it was that or a disclosure that this was Beta software. Seems like if you sell a vehicle with that feature, this should have been included in the MVPA?

I can't say I entirely disagree with the points made by @TheareticalOne. This was never made clear during the purchase process that even basic autopilot was a beta feature.

 

[Icehedgehog88]

For those with a loan on the car. Make sure you have GAP insurance on the vehicle. If you have a total loss on the vehicle you could be quickly upside down on your loan. The price drop certainly caused a lot of unintended consequences.

 

[WhiteOnWhiteMY]

For those with a loan on the car. Make sure you have GAP insurance on the vehicle. If you have a total loss on the vehicle you could be quickly upside down on your loan. The price drop certainly caused a lot of unintended consequences.

Look into New Vehicle Replacement policies as well, GAP covers your loan and this policy gets you into a new car again.

 

[Dennisis]

Here is my issue with this. This is hidden away in the owner's manual, typically looked at post-purchase. I see no effort by Tesla to promote the basic autopilot functionality as Beta. I was unaware this feature that has been touted for years was still considered Beta. Looking on the order page, basic autopilot sure sounds like it's a full release, not Beta.

View attachment 896879

Sure, FSD, definitely Beta. But Basic Autopilot? No way was that ever made clear to me. I even found it funny that there was a waiver we had to agree to when we enabled the autopilot setting in the vehicle. I assumed it was a liability waiver in the event of a wreck, but now I am unsure if it was that or a disclosure that this was Beta software. Seems like if you sell a vehicle with that feature, this should have been included in the MVPA?

I can't say I entirely disagree with the points made by @TheareticalOne. This was never made clear during the purchase process that even basic autopilot was a beta feature.

I get it, there has been much discussion here.

 

[Sunshine Speed]

Hey


*sigh* many words confuse.

My car randomly accelerates and brakes, it chimes and dings at nothing and disengages adaptive cruise control. It brakes and kicks out of 'autopilot' (marketing jargon for adaptive cruise control +lane assist) randomly but predominately at night. The Acceleration has been less random: in stop or go traffic at dusk. the vehicle will suddenly accelerate because it doesn't see a line of cars in front of it. If I wasn't manually braking, the vehicle would be a road hazard... no other car in the road I know of is struggling to use adaptive following this way. My 2015 Model S did not have this issue.

Can you try Service->Camera Calibration? My Model X worked fine with autopilot, then I got FSD Beta, and it started driving over the lines into other lanes every time I enabled it. This happened even on basic autopilot. So I did the camera calibration, it took about 20 minutes of driving, then my autopilot and lane keep is working perfectly again. Other people report it takes longer to calibrate sometimes, but mine was quick, and I did it at night. Good luck.

 

[enemji]

I don't want a lawsuit. But I also don't want to be strong armed into an extended beta test. I did not sign up for this... I did not buy FSD, I bought a luxury EV that I was told could perform. If it's Tesla's position I should have known this car was unsafe, they better be willing to make me sign an NDA and take the return/buyback/whathaveyou because I will take that admission to the press. "Tesla says car not fixable today, disgruntled owner should have known car was broken before buying!"

Not to mention, they should be required to inform customers of the random accel and deceleration. The braking happenens at speed, often near onramps... the Acceleration happens in stop and go when it suddenly doesn't see a line of traffic in front of itself at dusk.

i was misled and then trapped and they know it. if they leave me trapped and they cant make the car work... I will argue it's by design. As is binding arbitration clause when the fraud is an a priori question. Because it sure as hell seems that way at rhe point Tesla corporate had third party analysis that the car as sold was insufficent. And they did this to a loyalist!

Telling me I should have to sell the car is telling me I should push Tesla's problem onto someone else. But it doesn't solve my problem. I just lose. Like I said, not sure if selling a vehicle I blieve to be unsafe js even legal? Geels wrong. I may be foolish in wanting to speak to their arbitrators, but my demands are not selfish or outlandish despite my anger and frustration. I just saw how Tesla has been treating their customers in China.

I want a refund within 30 days of purchase because the technology doesn't function as advertised and the manufacturer tells me there is no way to fix it currently. This isn't me being unreasonable - this is Tesla standing by their products. This is me being led along by Tesla to believe they could fix something they still can't fix and finally admitting its not right.

Like I said, I'll be in their showrooms and service centers constantly if not. Not just as means to cost them money and time, but because I am not going to stay quiet or accept a single issue, flaw or defect on the car. (As I shouldn't). Everytime I experience the issue I will report it and take it in. Every noise, rattle and glitch. And I have a long list already, I just *was* a loyalist... I *was* an investor.... I *was* an evangelist who helped sell Tesla's in the early days. I was willing to stay silent and accept small issues - fix them myself even... or tolerate delays in getting them fixed. This isn't a small issue and I was duped into silence and complacency long enough. If I have to drive this car and pay Tesla through the nose to be their little beta tester bitch girl, I might just get it wrapped in graphics saying, "thinking about buying a Tesla? Don't! They're utter poo and I got trapped in this one!!" With a picture of a woman trapped in a portopotty screaming "let me out!"

Idk. All I know is I can accept being wronged by someone else. I can't accept being wronged by a multibillion dollar corporation owned by the richest man in the world. I won't. Not this badly. He can make this right, or else he *needs* my money and the sale so badly he's trapping customers in a web of lies.

None of my uber drivers ever have used TACC in any vehicle. I am surprised you rely upon it so much for yours.

 

[TheareticalOne]

Strange. Maybe that's the difference between "having Uber drivers" and being an Uber driver, lol.

Sorry, but for real - I live in Hampton Roads and there is a lot of long hauls from the North Side, down to Suffolk and Chesapeake... and always back and forth between the Beachs Oceanfront and Downtown Norfolk. Guess it depends on your area too... cause I end up doing 6-15 mile stretches routinely. As well as sitting through stop and go backups at the HRBT. Footcramps after hours and hours behind the wheel are real, but so is fatigue... believe it or not, it's a legit safety feature!

But regardless... I do use it and the autopilot feature on my 2015 Model S worked just fine. What's the difference? Why was I told this car was better and safer... but it cannot perform a core function the same as my Model S. I did not buy a Beta. I was misled - if I agreed to any sort of 'beta' program I thought it was for A.) Full Self Driving Visualization or agreeing and acknowledging that FSD and advanced autopilot features (if activated) were in Beta.

Tesla did not inform me that Tesla Autopilot had regressed into Beta. And if so, that should have been made clear when I asked about upgrades and difference between the Model 3 and my 2015 Model S, no?

 

[ElectricIAC]

AP1 was (and still is) also considered beta.

 

[TheareticalOne]

Like, if the Model 3 can't perform adaptive cruise control and lane assist functions (aka Tesla 'Autopilot') then marketing an 'advanced' version of the base function is intentional misleading. Cause like... it follows that advaned autopilot and FSD are in Beta. It also follows that id have to agree to keep my hands and eyes on the road at all time while utilizing adaptive cruise control +lane assist... or any of those potential features.

It makes absolutely no GD sense that Autopilot, Advanced Autopilot and FSD... as well as many of the safety features that rely on the same sensors and hardware... are all in Beta. And if it is in Beta... then how did I get it in my 2015 S? Different thing? How did they not tell me this in the showroom?

And why the heck did they name this new 'beta autopilot' the same exact thing? It's all so messed up and wrong. Our 2023 Model S seems to be OK so far... I haven't driven it as much cause it's my fathers... but it also still has lidar sensors. I think.

If I would have known this wasn't working, I'd have truly over extended myself and bought a Model S. Or, more likely since I cant afford that brand new, taken another look at Tesla's competitors or a used Model S. But I was lied to and scammed into this car and instead of fixing it... they dropped the price. They can't even guarantee me they will *ever* fix the hardware and are telling me a software 'fix' is coming... sometimes in the future. With not ETA. It's not right... and this shouldn't be my problem. It should be Elon and Tesla engineers.

 

[TheareticalOne]

Wait, there is an original Tesla Autopilot designation... makes sense... and on Model S vehicles going all the way back to 2015 and before... they are *still* considered in Beta?

That's insane. Or more accurately mind blowing... and one hell of a CYA. Isn't the OG Tesla considered a legacy system at this point? Wtf??

Can we expect Tesla will never move this vehicle from Beta either, then? Because honestly... all of this is news to me. My 2015 Model S was used when I got it... I had no clue Autopilot was in Beta. Just. Wow. I don't want to say you're wrong... but without knowing any authority I trust that could tell me... I'm just blown away by the concept Tesla is a company that just sells Beta cars. They are literally a Beta Car Company

 

[Yelobird]

Note to self. Use Yellow Cab when visiting the Hampton Roads area.

 

[TheareticalOne]

Note to self. Use Yellow Cab when visiting the Hampton Roads area.

there are fantastic services, for certain. But no worries if you ever did get me as a driver. I take care of all my customers and don't misled them or fail to deliver them to the location we agreed upon... and if there's a mistake help them amend it and get them where they need to go.

I don't tell them I'll take them to Hampton and stop at Hampton Blvd in Norfolk and say, "this is close enough, right? No no, no refunds... no, I can't fix it. Sure. I can get you to Hampton. Sometime. just not now No ETA though! You mad? Sorry, didn't you see the posted sign in the back that by using the base feature of my service (getting in my car at all) you agree to this as a beta-test drive with no warranties or guarantees. Yeah. You can just call another driver now - take care!"

Then have all my 5 star reviews bombard them with comments like, "tough titties for you! Eat the loss. You should have known better!" When this hypothetical person asks for a refund and publicly demands a refund in person and online. Nope. MY business doesn't operate like a scam

 

[Yelobird]

there are fantastic services, for certain. But no worries if you ever did get me as a driver. I take care of all my customers and don't misled them or fail to deliver them to the location we agreed upon... and if there's a mistake help them amend it and get them where they need to go.

I don't tell them I'll take them to Hampton and stop at Hampton Blvd in Norfolk and say, "this is close enough, right? No no, no refunds... no, I can't fix it. Sure. I can get you to Hampton. Sometime. just not now No ETA though! You mad? Sorry, didn't you see the posted sign in the back that by using the base feature of my service (getting in my car at all) you agree to this as a beta-test drive with no warranties or guarantees. Yeah. You can just call another driver now - take care!"

Then have all my 5 star reviews bombard them with comments like, "tough titties for you! Eat the loss. You should have known better!" When this hypothetical person asks for a refund and publicly demands a refund in person and online. Nope. MY business doesn't operate like a scam

Not to judge but I prefer a Silent driver. Not to judge your Lonnnnng rants, you would not be my driver of choice.

 

[TheareticalOne]

Not to judge but I prefer a Silent driver. Not to judge your Lonnnnng rants, you would not be my driver of choice.

I offer full control of the AC, Radio and have free water & snacks... chargers and mints... even bluetooth headphones to offer for my passengers and/or for myself so they can have a sense of privacy on long travels. I have a 3 to 4 sentence exchange about everything I offer, during which I sus out the passenger... and often ride in silence w/o ever needing be asked if they are completely unreceptive. I offer this to everyone, no matter the Uber pool or rider.

Not to judge but I prefer a Silent driver. Not to judge your Lonnnnng rants, you would not be my driver of choice.

But similarly not to judge, I prefer riders who are silent and avoid the impulse to add useless, derogatory commentary about me or my services for no reason... But truthfully, I'd be grateful for your fare either way and treat you aces. And like I said, I'd get you where you needed to go. Or offer a refund. Because that's good business - that's the ethical and right way to treat folks. Or so I was raised and taught.

Like I said. I *made 2 to 2.5x times the regional average *last year. But I'm a fool, I know.

 

[CMVL]

 

[Dennisis]

Here is my issue with this. This is hidden away in the owner's manual, typically looked at post-purchase. I see no effort by Tesla to promote the basic autopilot functionality as Beta. I was unaware this feature that has been touted for years was still considered Beta. Looking on the order page, basic autopilot sure sounds like it's a full release, not Beta.

View attachment 896879

Sure, FSD, definitely Beta. But Basic Autopilot? No way was that ever made clear to me. I even found it funny that there was a waiver we had to agree to when we enabled the autopilot setting in the vehicle. I assumed it was a liability waiver in the event of a wreck, but now I am unsure if it was that or a disclosure that this was Beta software. Seems like if you sell a vehicle with that feature, this should have been included in the MVPA?

I can't say I entirely disagree with the points made by @TheareticalOne. This was never made clear during the purchase process that even basic autopilot was a beta feature.

Agreed, even when you know it’s beta you don’t know what that means in day to day experience. I ordered when MYs were first available so had 6 months or so before taking delivery. Did lots of research (also owned an M3 previously) so wasn’t surprised but most are unprepared. All fine with me as I really enjoy the whole (mostly) experience but then I don’t rely on it to make a living.

 

[Paul1]

Tesla needs to get their act straight... Quality of $70k vehicle from tesla vs. Quality of non Tesla around $70k day and night difference... panels aligned, seats securely mounted, etc. Not to mention paying over $70k for performance calipers in Red/Yellow, etc. and getting a plastic cover is just scam.