The radar changed at the same the time. The 2.5 AP computer uses the 2 outputs from the continental radar...
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"The S and X are better cars than the Model 3" - Elon
- Thread starter viper2ko
- Start date
Cheburashka
Active Member
Yep, exactly. Radar switch was made with AP 2.5
Also 2.5 has redundant wiring for steering control.
It's obvious AP2.0 was a mistake and has mostly been abandoned.
If Tesla had unambiguously good news on this for the Model S/X (even in the form currently sold) they would have told us so.
In my view the fact that they chose to delay this and be ambiguous about V2+V3 changes means they are not ready to sell V3 Model S/X yet and current Model S/X will not likely support V3 levels.
As said so much for the Model S/X being always better — the list of things they are missing compared to Model 3 getting longer all the time (interior camera, all sorts of interior features, charging, real-world range, deployed software features, track mode, CCS connector in Europe etc).
It is easy to see. When something big and new happens it is always on the Model 3 now.
Tesla really needs to get that Model S/X upgrade out if this narrative is to ever change.
In my view the fact that they chose to delay this and be ambiguous about V2+V3 changes means they are not ready to sell V3 Model S/X yet and current Model S/X will not likely support V3 levels.
As said so much for the Model S/X being always better — the list of things they are missing compared to Model 3 getting longer all the time (interior camera, all sorts of interior features, charging, real-world range, deployed software features, track mode, CCS connector in Europe etc).
It is easy to see. When something big and new happens it is always on the Model 3 now.
Tesla really needs to get that Model S/X upgrade out if this narrative is to ever change.
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Remember how Tesla communicated that to us though... no big deal... AP 2.5 is just ”AP 2.1” really...
It took the community and reality unfolding for us to find out otherwise.
Sorry, but I have to ask about two of these:
1) What interior features? Model 3 interior looks like a Kinder surprise toy compared to Model S, in my humble opinion.
2) Track mode? Why is that such a big deal?
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It is true that Model 3 lacks a second display but Model S lacks these things Model 3 has:
- No interior camera in Model S
- No dual phone chargers in Model S
- No pulldown rear armrest in Model S
- No frunk hooks in Model S
- No interior coat hooks in Model S
- No regular sized door pockets in Model S
- No adjustable seat-belt height in Model S
Model 3 has all of the above. No big deals in themselves, but taken all together it is certainly starting to add up. Also Model 3 has the fancy next-gen ventilation and arguably the media controls on the steering wheel are improved and decidedly next-gen too.
Aside from the dual screens I am hardpressed to think many things the current Model S has interior-wise that Model 3 does not other than ventilated seats in the P model, the heating in the steering wheel and more room — especially given that Tesla discontinued some differentiating options...
The point isn’t so much that it is a big deal, but an example of growing list of new features Tesla has developed and integrated into their latest and greatest (arguably the Model 3) while leaving their older models to languish. Track Mode is one such example. Supercharging V3 is now another etc.
Anyway, for those wondering why Track Mode in a Model S, I would say for the same reason BMW M5 has the M mode (and more). Latest gen M5 and Model S are within an inch the same length...
Shock-On-T
⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️⚡️
The tech in the Model S induction motors are over 100 years old, and the Model 3 reluctance motors are like 50 years old.
The reluctance motor is more efficient and cheaper to make, but requires more advanced electronics which weren’t possible until more recently.
Very complex topic, but the summary is that both motor types are excellent, both over 90% efficient, but the reluctance motor has a few % better efficiency and is cheaper to make.
Tic-tac-toe
Member
Here is the MS P100D against the BMW M5, Panamera Turbo S hybrid, AMG GT 4.... the M5 can’t launch properly
These are the latest and greatest performance, 4 door, full sized sedans from the Germans against the “needs an immediate refresh” MS. The ole gal didn’t do badly (understatement). Hahaha!
Enjoy!
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Here is the MS P100D against the BMW M5, Panamera Turbo S hybrid, AMG GT 4.... the M5 can’t launch properly
These are the latest and greatest performance, 4 door, full sized sedans from the Germans against the “needs an immediate refresh” MS. The ole gal didn’t do badly (understatement). Hahaha!
You miss my point which was a large sedan can still benefit from a mode suited for track driving. The M5 and Model S are pretty similarly sized. Straight-line performance is not what a Track Mode is needed for.
The M5 obviously had a botched launch in that case but I do not dispute the prowess of EVs on 0-60 at all. I would not drag-race factory standard ICEs whats the point anymore, they have lost that game.
Tic-tac-toe
Member
You miss my point which was a large sedan can still benefit from a mode suited for track driving. The M5 and Model S are pretty similarly sized. Straight-line performance is not what a Track Mode is needed for.
The M5 obviously had a botched launch in that case but I do not dispute the prowess of EVs on 0-60 at all. I would not drag-race factory standard ICEs whats the point anymore, they have lost that game.
Yes, I know track mode is for the track... but I only ever drive +9 over the speed limit
and never on a track in my life. Straight line performance is what effects my daily driving the most.I was sad about the M5.
Yes, I know track mode is for the track... but I only ever drive +9 over the speed limit
I was sad about the M5.
I think the M5 would have been similar to the other ICEs had the launch not been botched. The M5 driver clearly failed with it, it was way too much behind to be realistic. But Tesla would have won this test of course even if the M5 had succeeded in its launch.
The new M5 has other redeeming qualities though. The handling is said to be good and it has a real RWD mode in addition to AWD and an active differential. And this is the kind of area where a Model S Track Mode could help Tesla compete.
Interesting about the other 2.5 hardware differences... I’d not seen the camera changes either! It was ‘just’ CPU/wiring/radar. Def fascinating they upgraded so much and passed it off as ‘2.1/redundancy’.
As for other reasons to not do the S/X upgrade ‘yet’, I thought it was all over TMC that the 18650 contract was ending at the end of 2018. Now we think it’s longer?
As for other reasons to not do the S/X upgrade ‘yet’, I thought it was all over TMC that the 18650 contract was ending at the end of 2018. Now we think it’s longer?
Sunshine State
Automotive Enthusiast
Not sure how familiar those guys are with the P100D but the difference would have even been greater if the battery was charged to more than 2/3, with higher state of charge the P100D performance is greater and it likely would have easily held off the others in 50 mph roll start and been even quicker in the 1/4 mile. Eventually due to higher top speeds the others would win at an unlimited distance but in the real world who is going much over 100? The launch mode doesn’t require much to enable, the guy was doing more than is necessary.Here is the MS P100D against the BMW M5, Panamera Turbo S hybrid, AMG GT 4.... the M5 can’t launch properly
These are the latest and greatest performance, 4 door, full sized sedans from the Germans against the “needs an immediate refresh” MS. The ole gal didn’t do badly (understatement). Hahaha!
Enjoy!
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I totally disagree. How many Model S owners have a need or a want to take it to a track even once in their lifetime? I would never and I will never. I couldn't care less about M5's or any other car's track performance.
I would much rather Tesla focuses on one or two things (which now are 3 and Y and hopefully service!), so the company survives and thrives in the long run than have them spread themselves even thinner than they already are by working on completely unimportant features such as track mode (at least unimportant for a great majority of owners I am sure).
Model S time will come again once Tesla figures itself out, be patient.
I hope this "mistake" can be fixed even if it means a retrofit at an extra cost because this directly affects customer safety.
It is one thing to think about Tesla’s survival, another thing to be honest about what happened: It is not true that Model S / X will always be better than Model 3.
They are, in many ways, worse than Model 3.
I think that's the wrong way to look at it. In my opinion, a more correct statement would be the improvements of the S and X, after a refresh, will be greater than the improvements in the 3 after a refresh. So, depending upon when you purchase, the 3 may or may not be better than the S or X. Right now it is (unless you need the extra room).
My comment was relative to Tesla’s claim that Model S/X will *always* be better than Model 3.
That is not true.
What you say can of course be true but it has little bearing on Tesla’s claim of always.
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