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The Shame...

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Eclectic, Jul 22, 2016.

  1. Eclectic

    Eclectic Member

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    We live in an area with a HUGE concentration of EVs, particularly Teslas. One of the local malls has two free chargers that are clearly marked as for EVs only, when charging, with time limits on use.

    I was by the mall late this afternoon and saw that my wife had parked her Tesla in one of the charging spots, but I noticed that the car wasn't plugged in. I texted her to ask if maybe someone unplugged the car (no response).

    So when she got home I asked what happened. She had no idea what I was talking about. I explained what I saw and she said "oh, after I parked I didn't want to bother with getting the adapter out."

    I was mortified. She asked what the problem was. I told her. I told her it is very bad form to take up a charging stall anywhere if you're not charging. She said "well I don't read those forums, so I had no idea." [Yes, I did get a bit incredulous at that response and she got defensive, but that's for a marriage therapy forum]

    She's been driving Teslas for years now and, I'm ashamed to say, I think she thinks that EVs come with special parking spots called reserved charging locations.

    I'll try to get over this, but it is a message to all of us: Even those closest to us may need a charging etiquette intervention.
     
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  2. EVTECH

    EVTECH Member

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    I did the same thing when my fiance driving a Volt parked in a spot for charging only. I moved her car to the very back of the parking lot as punishment without her knowing. She hasn't done it since she had to take that long walk
     
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  3. AndreSF

    AndreSF Member

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    IMO it's a general issue with positioning of the EV spots in prime parking locations that contributes to such behavior. Off to talk to my wife about this though... :)
     
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  4. Oil4AsphaultOnly

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    I dread the day when my wife drives an EV and does the same thing. She would totally give me that same line about "not reading the forums". :(
     
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  5. 808?

    808? Member

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    Charging is not parking.
     
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  6. S4WRXTTCS

    S4WRXTTCS Active Member

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    Hmmm. Maybe my perpetual singleness isn't such a bad thing after all.
     
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  7. Candleflame

    Candleflame Member

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    the problem gets needlessly provoked by charging spots being always right next to the stores entrance for some reason.
     
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  8. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    So are the handicapped spots, but people know not to park there even if they don't read the handicapped forums.
     
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  9. 21miDay

    21miDay Member

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    One reason is that it is closer to the power source.
     
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  10. Chopr147

    Chopr147 Active Member

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    Well, some even use the handicapped spots! One reason the summons is so expensive. Despicable behavior deserves to pay :) NY does not yet have too many EV charging spots at malls and such. But the few I have seen were prime parking so I parked my Yukon XL and shopped for a few hours
     
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  11. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    #11 Ulmo, Jan 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
    Sorry to hijack your good thread, but I was responding to another thread of someone asking for help, and I realized I wasn't helping them that much, but still had some points to consider with that occasional (not frequent) sneer we hear about at offices about Teslas vs. Leafs/Fiats. This must be an office thing, and not at all related to the electric vehicles, I concluded. In fact, in my experience, most Leaf owners I meet are the nicest people, and come help me find a good spot to charge. If anything, we should learn good etiquette from most short range EV owners who often use charging stations, because most of them are very practiced at it, beyond what most Tesla drivers will have to learn. I always treat those who treat me well well as well.

    I believe that is something we hear about offices every so often, and is more about the office and the people than about the cars; most Leaf owners I've met are extremely nice people, and don't behave that way at all. But, here's some points to consider while mulling over your office politics considerations. Perhaps they aren't really discussing cars at all, but some sort of office politics situation. But here goes -- mostly irrelevant to Leafs and Fiats, by the way, as I said, but great counterpoints:
    1. Depends where we're going next in our Tesla. We could even need to charge more due to our extended range by having more possible places to go, and the ability to use it, and a bigger battery needing and allowing more charge.
    2. They could have bought a Tesla. They saved money.
    3. Our lifestyle, monetary requirements (including errands, work, income), and general investments have been made to match our car range capabilities. It would be nearly impossible for most of us to suddenly change that on a whim just because some short range EV didn't want us to have medium to long range EV range. For instance, we might live further away. Or, we might have not yet installed a charger capable of charging in the required time for our list of drives coming up. Or any of a number of other things. Just because a Leaf can't go visit their friends doesn't mean we aren't already scheduled to go see ours, and would lose much of our life if we cancelled.
    4. They might need a charge, whereas sometimes we can go to a SuperCharger if we need to.
    5. When I actually do need a charge, I often am stuck with competing for Fast DC chargers with all those short range electrics, because only half my non-home charging situations happen in reasonable driving range of a SuperCharger: first come first serve, and fill up as long as we can block the other cars, with personal negotiations seeming to be the method. I've already been forced to wait a few times, just like SuperChargers.
    6. I can make it to work and home without a charge; that same commute (40kWh average, 48kWh max (typical detours required on my route)) would be impossible in competing EV's. I don't need to charge at work for this.
    7. Solar power is mid-day. That is the healthiest, most efficient, and proper use of the sun. California ISO - Renewables Reporting shows a huge amount of sun energy available mid-day yesterday. While it still isn't all of the production mid-day (look further down on that page) and isn't surplus, we are getting ready for that style of use within the next few decades. But, if you look even further down on that page, you can see the "net hourly load" after taking out solar and wind dipping the most 10am-3pm out of the ENTIRE 24 HOUR DAY. For production planning, we would be helping the utilities by using energy during that time of day. It's definitely something that all daytime parking spots should have: a way to charge. It's not our fault if the port capacity lags the userbase. We help generate the demand.
    8. I have a "60"kWh car. A typical max detours commute takes 48kWh. If I add even one errand to that, I can get way beyond my "60"kWh battery capacity even if I leave home at 100% (which is currently my full time practice since I have a software limited "75"kWh battery), so in order to arbitrage the ability to do errands or go on a surprise date, I would very much like to charge during the day. I never know when I will need to add charge to my car on the wrong side of a rush hour, adding 2 hours to my driving and basically killing my entire schedule (and making my sleep worse, killing my health and performance).
    9. If I wake up early, like today, my car is not fully charged when I am willing and able to start my commute, and therefore I need to charge once I get to my work destination area. Today, I'm considering using a convenient SuperCharger near my current work (Mountain View) to bridge this gap, especially since I plan on errands. But, what if I didn't have a SuperCharger available? Chademo is too slow to pop over to fill up before work, even if I'm early, and Level 2 is nowhere near fast enough to wait for (it's a plug it in and walk away level).
    10. You can tell the Leafs and Fiats are lying about your "enough range" as soon as they start buying the new 60 model Leafs coming out; suddenly, it won't be about "enough range" being a fairness trait -- they'll change their rules to once again benefit themselves the most. I have seen this all the time with baby boomers changing the rules constantly to benefit themselves over me and others that don't fit in with them. I suspect cheap EV buyers are the same. Just watch them climb all over themselves to say they still have priority now that their range is more than a Tesla. (When the Leaf 60's come out, my Tesla 60 will have degraded to the point that the Leaf has more range than my Tesla, and many Leaf owners don't traverse thousand foot hills daily like I do; more than ever, I would need a charge when Leafs do not.)
    11. Leafs and Fiats were bought by people that don't need a Tesla to reach work. Teslas were bought by people that need a Tesla to reach work. The Leafs and Fiats (short range EV's) probably are very wealthy people who can afford to live nearby, whereas many medium and long range EV's are and very much in the future will be used by those who are poorer and must live further away. If anything, we should feel lucky the Leaf and Fiat owners aren't giving us money like we're strippers in a bar in some demeaning way as a message of our inferiority; if they're acting jealous, that's much preferable. We bought into that with our longer range EV, so we should use that advantage.
    12. When I first bought my first Mercedes, it's because I realized taking care of myself is superior. I have a superiority complex, and I often show it by being gracious to other people who don't take care of themselves properly. One way I get to show this graciousness now that I've gotten my Tesla Model S (which compared to a Mercedes S or E class is decidedly less superior, but still tolerable in most circumstances (the Model X is less bad)) is to maximize the useful range of my Tesla's battery capacity when sharing charging spots with the short range vehicles. Yes, I need to charge, and I need to charge even more than most short range EV's could even dream of being able to charge, but I can shift my charging (at considerable cost to myself) to other locations. However, my graciousness shouldn't be confused with a fairness doctrine or an equal cost of me just scuttling out of the way of Leafs and Fiats. I think in general, a lot of Tesla owners are able to show this level of magnanimous behavior. Don't get me wrong; it's extremely patronizing. Any short range EV buyer knows going in that they will be patronized in this manner on occasion. It's like buying any type of cheap thing.
    Many reasons why charging a Tesla at the same priority of a Leaf/short range EV is OK. Some reasons why short range EV's need it ever so slightly more than us, but that's only a reason for the property to install more ports. And at least a few points that show short range EV's are being dishonest. And 1 point about us being magnanimous.
     
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  12. Ulmo

    Ulmo Active Member

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    #12 Ulmo, Jan 19, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2017
    Yes. I really dislike that. One thing I would change about ALL of the shopping charging locations is I would want them all as far as possible away from the stores. That is how I like to park, to avoid damage to my car (I call it defensive parking). I hate all of the problems associated with the charging locations near to the stores: people mad at me for taking a closer spot. People mad at me for being in a closer spot and not "using" it by going shopping nearby. People who consider parking in the closer spot for them. People constantly looking at the empty close spots and having to process that they are not allowed to park there. And worst of all, too many other cars parked near my car and driving nearby and people walking nearby, because, for some reason, almost everyone wants to be close to the stores. Moving those charging locations to the furthest areas of the parking lots would solve this.

    I hope any shopping areas that install more charging spots put them as far away as possible from their stores.
     
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  13. bro1999

    bro1999 Active Member

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    Happy wife, happy life (and lots of swallowed pride)
     
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  14. gregd

    gregd Active Member

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    There was an interesting "Letter to the Editor" in our local newspaper recently (Reader Input: Charging and parking | Auburn Journal), complaining about the new EVgo chargers that got installed right in front of a store in one of our shopping centers. There were a few disturbing statements in the letter, including that the store manager claimed they couldn't force ICEs not to park there, but what got my attention was that the store had originally tried to locate the charging slots some short distance away in the lot. They were turned down by the city, citing ADA requirements among other things.

    I responded (Reader Input: Welcome EV community | Auburn Journal), focusing on the benefit to the community that the charging spots created, as supported by comments posted on PlugShare. These aren't seen by their users as "privileged parking". But still, I wonder how we (the EV community) can combat this feeling in the community, when the city's actions cause Handicapped parking and other highly desired spots to be turned into EV charging?
     
  15. Oil4AsphaultOnly

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    Wow, that's some terribly short-sighted planning by the city! Maybe suggest a second set of chargers (for none handicapped users) where they originally planned it? Kind of how handicapped parking spaces are separate from the rest?

    Edit: This way, the handicapped spaces are still for the handicapped, but now with charging capabilities.
     
  16. Naonak

    Naonak Member

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    I just wanted to point out that CHAdeMo is almost as fast as a Supercharger if your SoC is > 50%, which is probably is, or close to it, so if the CHAdeMo is closer, you might as well go there.
     
  17. henderrj

    henderrj Member

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    As a Kia SoulEV driver it was irritating to see a 90d in the charging spot at the mall. Especially considering I needed only 10 more miles of charge! When the young woman came out 20 minutes later it was real hard not to get bitter. (My wife lost that battle!)
     
  18. Electric700

    Electric700 Active Member

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    Why get irritated at all? What if the 90D driver had 3 miles of range left? We need to put this kind of energy into requesting more charging spots ;) The more, the better for all EV drivers.
     
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  19. davewill

    davewill Member

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    This whole thing of getting indignant over other people's use of public charging is pointless and ultimately defeating. The guys with small batteries get mad at the guys with big batteries. The guys with >7kW chargers get upset because someone with a 3kW charger is "wasting" a spot. EVERYONE seems to rag on the PHEV guys using a spot even though they are just trying to do more driving on electric. Yes some kind of charging etiquette makes sense, but there's no objective way of judging someone else's usage and confronting strangers who may be in the right is not the way to go.

    First come, first served, and obey any signage. Other than that, getting mad is pointless.

    The problem is not people using public charging, but that there is not enough of it.
     
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  20. phaduman

    phaduman Member

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    Simple parking tickets could be useful. Private parking areas: the mall parking enforcement folks can just start to issue parking tickets ($25?) for illegal parking for a EV (or any car) that is in a EV spot and not plugged in....my wife hates tickets to the core and would quite quickly adapt to this.
     

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