The shudder problem: Current status (end of February 2020)

[ElectricSteve]

I was at my SC today to pick-up my All-Weather Floor Mats. I ran into the chief technician and we started talking. I had two topics in my head and this is one of them:

> Why does my MX LR Raven shudder on "Standard" suspension mode since day 1. What he explained next lead me to creating this topic. It should put an end to speculations and uncertainty about the shudder issue.

First off: the shudder problems in pre-Raven and Raven have different causes. Yes the symptoms are almost indistinguishable between the two generations but they do NOT have the same root-cause.

On pre-Raven, the problem is the front motor-mounts / clevis-mount.
On pre-Raven's, installing the new hardware should fix the problem WHEN THE CAR IS DRIVEN NORMALLY and not driven like a maniac, flooring it at every stop-light. Such behaviour will wreck anything. I saw a post of somebody saying "Tesla never told me I cannot floor it every time". Well sorry Sir but you are an idiot.

In Raven, the new mounts are installed from the factory. The problem here are re-designed front-axles. The part of the Axle between the two CV-Joints starts to vibrate under medium to heavy torque-load on some cars. Not all X Ravens are affected and because of this, Tesla is still not in the clear as to why not everybody has the problem.

The current status of the Raven Shudder problem is "under investigation".

So that's it. Don't mix up Raven and pre-Raven anymore please, as the root causes are NOT the same.
Pre-Raven is fixed, Raven not yet.

 

[TexasTeslaRacing]

Our MX started to get the "Shakes" after 5,000 miles. Very noticeable on standard ride height, less so on low and very hard to feel on very low. Only did maybe 7-10 launches and that's all it took to get the shutter. A bit disappointing, but still a fun vehicle to drive.

 

[ElectricSteve]

My Raven X only shudders with the suspension in Standard and above AND under medium to strong accelleration.
In "Low" and "very low" there is no shudder at all. Ever.
This corresponds to what the technician said that only in "Standard" (and above), the angle of the CV-Joints is steep enough to cause issues on some cars.

What frustrates the investigation is that most Raven's are fine. So why, still a sizeable number of cars, do have issues, some even from "birth" like mine, is not understood yet. What is the difference between two same cars where one is fine and the other has the shakies.

Must be frustrating as an engineer though. Developing an improved version of the front-axles with nothing but good intentions, testing them, eventually releasing them for production, only to find out later that the improvement(s) actually causes issues again on some cars.

This is also the reason why i'm not having my axles replaced now. It won't help or at least not for long. It's just a waste of time. I'll wait until they found out what's causing it and have developed a proper remedy.

 

[TexasTeslaRacing]

I agree with you on the "wait until there is a better solution" strategy.

 

[Cuttin]

For raven x waiting makes sense but maybe not as you might get new part that won't fail. Especially if now you'd be more careful.

For pre-raven. There is a fix like op said and that should obviously be done.

I absolutely disagree with op about driving like a maniac.
Many people got these cars bc of the specs. I hit it hard from almost every light. Puts a smile on My face. Everytime. Obviously the smile is bigger if there's a decent car and not a corolla next to me.

Point is. Your not sold a car that you should only floor occasionally, you should be able to floor it often and drive it rough. Etc.

Now, I think they should come up with some disclaimer and limit torque in anything but low or very low. But that needs to be clear.

They haven't done so, so I'm assuming it's a small percentage of failures. Especially given most people already do not drive aggressively.

I got this car bc I love the tech and it's specs. Don't care much for planet or greenery or whatever. I know I burn alot more electricity And honestly couldn't care less if the electricity comes from wind solar or coal. and it does cost me more to drive fast, but until Bernie wins it's a free country.

 

[ElectricSteve]

I absolutely disagree with op about driving like a maniac.
Many people got these cars bc of the specs. I hit it hard from almost every light.

I'll repeat what I said in another topic (quote myself). Then, let's agree to disagree.
_________

"These cars are insanely power-full, can rip axles apart when exposed to the full brunt of these motors and the manufacturer HAD to reduce power to keep things in one piece. Those axles are not made out of some space-alien-unobtanium-alloy. It's just too much for the materials used. Using materials that can actually sustain such loads would make the cars much more expensive. Hypercars use these.

Besides the materials/alloys used in those axles, there is the issue with the axle-joint. In ride-height modes other than low/very low, the angle of the axle-joints is too steep. I understand that. I therefore do not reasonably expect full power to be available in modes other than low/very low.
I have no conformation of this at all (it's all level "rumours") but the theorie exists that later on, Tesla found out it's still too much oomph so they reduced the torque the front motor puts out some more, to not damage the car. I'd rather have a car that stays in one piece than one that rips itself apart by overdoing it. But that's just my logic.

To be fair, Tesla made a design mistake by putting too much strain on the materials used and designing the axle-angle in higher ride modes to be too steep from day one. I fully agree on that. But they recognised their mistake and made an adjustment (reducing the max. load on some components).
And they should not have sold the car the way they did, by claiming it can embarrass exotic sports cars at the drag-strip during the lifetime of the vehicle. Do stunts like that too often and the car will get damaged."

 

[VikH]

On pre-Raven, the problem is the front motor-mounts / clevis-mount.
On pre-Raven's, installing the new hardware should fix the problem WHEN THE CAR IS DRIVEN NORMALLY and not driven like a maniac, flooring it at every stop-light. Such behaviour will wreck anything. I saw a post of somebody saying "Tesla never told me I cannot floor it every time". Well sorry Sir but you are an idiot.

What does that mean? Can I floor it once a day/week/month/year? A performance model should be able to be used in a performance fashion.

 

[Cuttin]

I'll repeat what I said in another topic (quote myself). Then, let's agree to disagree.
_________

"These cars are insanely power-full, can rip axles apart when exposed to the full brunt of these motors and the manufacturer HAD to reduce power to keep things in one piece. Those axles are not made out of some space-alien-unobtanium-alloy. It's just too much for the materials used. Using materials that can actually sustain such loads would make the cars much more expensive. Hypercars use these.

Besides the materials/alloys used in those axles, there is the issue with the axle-joint. In ride-height modes other than low/very low, the angle of the axle-joints is too steep. I understand that. I therefore do not reasonably expect full power to be available in modes other than low/very low.
I have no conformation of this at all (it's all level "rumours") but the theorie exists that later on, Tesla found out it's still too much oomph so they reduced the torque the front motor puts out some more, to not damage the car. I'd rather have a car that stays in one piece than one that rips itself apart by overdoing it. But that's just my logic.

To be fair, Tesla made a design mistake by putting too much strain on the materials used and designing the axle-angle in higher ride modes to be too steep from day one. I fully agree on that. But they recognised their mistake and made an adjustment (reducing the max. load on some components).
And they should not have sold the car the way they did, by claiming it can embarrass exotic sports cars at the drag-strip during the lifetime of the vehicle. Do stunts like that too often and the car will get damaged."

I saw that post. Ur basically saying same thing.

We WILL agree to disagree. Lol.

Next poster brings a valid point.
What's an "allowed" number of floorings?

Seems subjective. According to you, very rarely. According to me and some others, constantly.

 

[Qbenjamin]

I'm with minority in this scenario, as I didn't buy this car to drive it like a 4 cylinder SUV. I noticed that any sudden acceleration in my X was causing the shudder to happen. That was at every height and I didn't have to be flooring it too hard. After the shudder was fixed, the "X" is so smooth now, like I'm riding on clouds (20's on it atm).

 

[Hugh-SG]

Shuddering is fixed: Service Bulletin out on Hard Acceleration "Shudder"

Sorry for the duplicate as I feel my original went in via the wrong area.

My CPO M-X is still under 4 year CPO warranty with 8 year CPO power train warranty.

Is the repair of this problem covered under warranty or would it be an expensive out of pocket repair bill for me?

I am getting a mild Shudder now with medium firm acceleration on Freeway on ramps (and No, I am not stomping it to the floor unless I absolutely have to, I know better then that). I do want to get many, many years out of this lovely car in my soon to arrive retirement but the Shudder is getting worse and I do not want any harm to come to my M-X.

Thank you for any information you may have.

Kindest regards,
Hugh-SG

 

[Cuttin]

Sorry for the duplicate as I feel my original went in via the wrong area.

My CPO M-X is still under 4 year CPO warranty with 8 year CPO power train warranty.

Is the repair of this problem covered under warranty or would it be an expensive out of pocket repair bill for me?

I am getting a mild Shudder now with medium firm acceleration on Freeway on ramps (and No, I am not stomping it to the floor unless I absolutely have to, I know better then that). I do want to get many, many years out of this lovely car in my soon to arrive retirement but the Shudder is getting worse and I do not want any harm to come to my M-X.

Thank you for any information you may have.

Kindest regards,
Hugh-SG

If under warranty then it should be covered. Go asap before you run out. Make sure you get the new part if it's PRE raven. Or get something if POST raven, although it seems they don't have a good fix yet for post raven. But maybe if you get new parts and drive very carefully it won't happen again?

 

[edd--]

by the way, it's not only X'es suffering from this problem. I drive a raven performance model S and have the same problem, even after having the axles replaced once, the shudder came back after a week or so ...

 

[Cuttin]

by the way, it's not only X'es suffering from this problem. I drive a raven performance model S and have the same problem, even after having the axles replaced once, the shudder came back after a week or so ...

That's news to me. Thought it's only X.

Bummer.

 

[FatherTo1]

Raven S here. Had both half-shafts replaced three months ago and shudder has returned. I don't feel like I drive the car that hard. If anything, I've driven it slower after the half-shaft replacement. Before the service I averaged 280 Wh/m, after replacing half-shafts I have brought my lifetime average down to 270 Wh/m.

The original invoice listed version B and D parts for half-shafts but no mention of Clevis mount -- seems to support OP's report that Ravens already have the new Clevis mount. This time I am requesting both half-shafts be the latest 'D' version.

 

[ReachX]

Pre-Raven here. Had half-shafts replaced in addition to the clevis motor mount for my Performance X. I do not think they are NOT a problem for pre-Raven models.

I think the OP's declaratory statements are half baked and should not be taken as gospel. As with anything on the internet.

 

[ElectricSteve]

I think the OP's declaratory statements are half baked and should not be taken as gospel. As with anything on the internet.

That information comes from the chief Tech at my SC. Not from me. I'm just relaying the information and I think I was quite elaborate.
But think whatever you want about it. Your opinion is not important to me.

 

[SMSMD]

Did not get the shudder after service today. Invoice shows the repairs done. Hope it remains shudder free. Have lived with it since 2016.

 

[pereiks]

I've also been told that the Raven shudder have a different nature. I've been told that they suspect that the half-shafts contract too much when cold and that is causing the shudder. Not sure how accurate is it. I'm also having shudder on 2020 LR MX on normal and less often on low suspension settings and usually it's indeed when I accelerate hard in the morning.

 

[SMSMD]

Today i tested out sudden acceleration in standard suspension repeatedly; for the first time in all these years it did not happen.

 

[Etmaniac]

I have a Raven X LR. Shudder is worse when on standard ride hight. Low ride a lot less and very low even less shudder. Shudder happens even with normal acceleration but is for sure worse when pushing it harder. Temperature does not seem to matter much. Tesla service team have said that Tesla is working the issue, replacing parts will not help they said, nor are they allowed to do so. Guess they need to figure the problem out first.