The shudder problem: Current status (end of February 2020)

[K2500Z71]

Are you sure the P/Ns are the same? I saw a different set of P/N's from when I had the half shafts replaced last year (2020 Raven.) The clevis repositioning also makes a difference. Have not heard a reoccurrence since the TSB hit, so that says something.

I just went back and looked at both invoices and I was mistaken. The end part of the part numbers “113-00-B” and “119-00-B” were the same but the prefix “1420” is different so these are indeed different.

 

[Mobster]

I was at my SC today to pick-up my All-Weather Floor Mats. I ran into the chief technician and we started talking. I had two topics in my head and this is one of them:

> Why does my MX LR Raven shudder on "Standard" suspension mode since day 1. What he explained next lead me to creating this topic. It should put an end to speculations and uncertainty about the shudder issue.

First off: the shudder problems in pre-Raven and Raven have different causes. Yes the symptoms are almost indistinguishable between the two generations but they do NOT have the same root-cause.

On pre-Raven, the problem is the front motor-mounts / clevis-mount.
On pre-Raven's, installing the new hardware should fix the problem WHEN THE CAR IS DRIVEN NORMALLY and not driven like a maniac, flooring it at every stop-light. Such behaviour will wreck anything. I saw a post of somebody saying "Tesla never told me I cannot floor it every time". Well sorry Sir but you are an idiot.

In Raven, the new mounts are installed from the factory. The problem here are re-designed front-axles. The part of the Axle between the two CV-Joints starts to vibrate under medium to heavy torque-load on some cars. Not all X Ravens are affected and because of this, Tesla is still not in the clear as to why not everybody has the problem.

The current status of the Raven Shudder problem is "under investigation".

So that's it. Don't mix up Raven and pre-Raven anymore please, as the root causes are NOT the same.
Pre-Raven is fixed, Raven not yet.

Shudder "under investigation". That's a good one! My service center told me that in 2016, 2017,2018,2019,2020..........

 

[tsxl]

I am in Toronto, Canada... I have a 2016 p90dl and I got the half-shafts done this month. It seems to drive very smooth now and no shudder.
Thanks to this thread i was able to confirm the latest part numbers.
The cost to do them were roughly around $1900 CDN, out of pocket of course.

 

[dmurphy]

Shudder "under investigation". That's a good one! My service center told me that in 2016, 2017,2018,2019,2020..........

You realize the post you responded to is a year and a half old, right? Since then, we have seen a revised service bulletin, new parts, new procedures and not one - not one - report of it happening after this last fix.

So I'd suggest trying it again ... sounds like they finally have it nailed.

 

[ohmman]

So I'd suggest trying it again ... sounds like they finally have it nailed.

I wish I could share your enthusiasm, but even my SC told me "it's just another TSB. There will be another one after this."

I've rarely had a stronger desire to be wrong. Though I do kind of get a thrill from being wrong, so maybe I'm overstating things...

 

[dmurphy]

I wish I could share your enthusiasm, but even my SC told me "it's just another TSB. There will be another one after this."

I've rarely had a stronger desire to be wrong. Though I do kind of get a thrill from being wrong, so maybe I'm overstating things...

I’ll be happy to admit if I’m wrong about it, too. I’d just think that by now, we’d have heard from someone coming back and telling us “this fix sucks, it’s happening again!”

So that’s giving me that little flash of hope I guess!

 

[Mobster]

This fix sucks. It came back. (yeah I know it's an old thread but my problem lingers on even after the service bulletin "fix"...so I rant) And they say "we are continuing to look into it."

 

[Richbot]

I've now done about 4300 miles with the new shafts and the Tesla Signature Founders Edition Members Only Model X "brrrt" noise has not come back. It was definitely reproducible by 4000 miles on the old shafts, though only if I used the higher suspension settings a lot.

I can't imagine it's fixed forever, what is? But signs point to maybe, headed toward fixed, for me

 

[dmurphy]

This fix sucks. It came back. (yeah I know it's an old thread but my problem lingers on even after the service bulletin "fix"...so I rant) And they say "we are continuing to look into it."

So, if you have the service receipt, can you double check that they actually used the new parts? I know shortly after this bulletin came out, some folks were getting stuck with the old parts. Want to make sure they didn't do that to you!

Otherwise, I believe you're the first report we've seen here that the fix isn't the fix .... Unless maybe something else is wrong?

 

[Richbot]

Are they using the refresh shafts on non-Ravens? I thought they took a different shaft this whole time

 

[mxnym]

Are they using the refresh shafts on non-Ravens? I thought they took a different shaft this whole time

See this quote earlier in the thread:

Some posters reported getting various forms of pushback on getting the halfshafts replaced because the problem would reoccur, and that engineering was working on a fix. This TSB has new part numbers, covers all model years (pre refresh), and has an extensive verification and break in procedure, including an explicit note to run the car in STANDARD for verification after replacement. It certainly looks like the “fix”

My read of that infers that the shaft for non-Ravens changed again when the Raven fix was released. My service center acknowledges a new TSB for my 2017, but still claims it still isn't permanent and therefore not covered by warranty. Others are getting it covered by warranty at other service centers. YMMV

 

[Hodginator]

Just had my half-shafts replaced with the new parts (Raven). Fingers crossed. Service has really improved. They kept me up to date on the repairs and were really professional. Glad to see the old Tesla service is back.

 

[tnots]

I just brought mine in for something else today and I mentioned the service bulletin and they completed it on our 2019 Raven without doing any road testing or even asking me a question about it. It was all touchless so I didn't see anyone at all anyway. Afterwards, there were no noticeable creaks or noises and the driver seat was adjusted so they likely did the 'break in' exercise.

View attachment 664243

Hi Everyone, so the shudder problem came back and this time it shuddered immediately upon acceleration with a little warm up in the beginning and then getting aggressive around 40, 50, etc. The X (2019 Raven) has been in the shop for a week and has been escalated through three technicians who have reviewed the suspension, can reproduce it, tried realigning the tires, changing tires, adjusting suspension (it doesn't happen as badly at Low height), and are just about stumped. At this point, the next option (which we have approved) is to replace all of the rotors/brakes as they haven't been maintained (shame on us) since we originally purchased and it's been about 25k miles. After this, they are going to see if this helps.

All being said, I don't think this will ever go away and it's a design flaw...

Appreciate any feedback from others who have gone down this path with brakes/rotors...

 

[K2500Z71]

FWIW, I’ve had the latest fix and it’s also coming back. It’s different now though… more like a higher frequency vibration… about 2x the number of pulses felt with the old shudder, but less intense for now. I’ll keep watching to see how it progresses. I’m trading this vehicle before the warranty ends so I’m not too worried about it. I have a Cybertruck AND a Rivian on order to replace it.

 

[Mark J]

The only modification that I have done to my car was during last July, I had the N2itive’s Alignment Kit 1 installed which got rid of the shudder, and also lowers the car about 1” in standard without wearing the inside of the tires. The shudder issue is caused by the drive shafts being at too large of an angle from the wheel to the gear box, which destroys the CV joints. No different than when as a kid I put a lift kit in my pickup, but ended up destroying the universal joints in a short time. So to avoid this happening, you can lower the car to reduce this angle, but then the car will wear out the inside of the tires very quickly but the outside tread looks like no wear. So this kit replaces the linkage in both rear wheels so the camber can be adjusted and the lowering links are installed at all 4 wheels. I had to drive 400 miles to the coast to a shop to do this install and align the car and the first thing I noticed after installing the kit and aligning the car is my WH-Mile improved quite a bit, any where from 280 - 325 WH-Mile . I attached the alignment sheet showing the alignment before the kit was installed and not able to adjust the camber. (A side note, I had the Tesla shop align the car right before I drove to the coast in the hopes this would reduce the wear on my tires) and the bottom of the page shows after the kit was installed and the final alignment. Hope the link works. Please let me know if it doesn't.

 

[tnots]

The only modification that I have done to my car was during last July, I had the N2itive’s Alignment Kit 1 installed which got rid of the shudder, and also lowers the car about 1” in standard without wearing the inside of the tires. The shudder issue is caused by the drive shafts being at too large of an angle from the wheel to the gear box, which destroys the CV joints. No different than when as a kid I put a lift kit in my pickup, but ended up destroying the universal joints in a short time. So to avoid this happening, you can lower the car to reduce this angle, but then the car will wear out the inside of the tires very quickly but the outside tread looks like no wear. So this kit replaces the linkage in both rear wheels so the camber can be adjusted and the lowering links are installed at all 4 wheels. I had to drive 400 miles to the coast to a shop to do this install and align the car and the first thing I noticed after installing the kit and aligning the car is my WH-Mile improved quite a bit, any where from 280 - 325 WH-Mile . I attached the alignment sheet showing the alignment before the kit was installed and not able to adjust the camber. (A side note, I had the Tesla shop align the car right before I drove to the coast in the hopes this would reduce the wear on my tires) and the bottom of the page shows after the kit was installed and the final alignment. Hope the link works. Please let me know if it doesn't.

Very fascinating result! I've often thought about going down the N2itive route but figured it was more marketing rather than a true type of solution. I'm on the east coast so not sure who would be able to do this type of work, but the alignment sheet you attached tells the story of before and after and that the result is undeniable.

 

[tnots]

UPDATE: Replacing the brakes/rotors did not make a difference so they have ordered front half shaft replacement parts and will notify when this is available for another service appt. Overall, same story as everyone else....

 

[STAR172E]

I have a 2019 pre Raven modelX.
From drive shafts we’re replaced after about 15k km. But problem returned 3k later. SC wait for new ones. I waited. New ones installed 6 months ago at about 36km. noticed a different kind of vibration shortly afterwards, which has gradually got worse, but SC just thought it was a drive shaft issue to replaced one of them again at 40k. Now at 45k and the other drive shaft shuddering and vibration still there. Drive with engineer who agreed car was vibrating and booster on the road than normal. Also told me that in the Munich SC the had been swapping out drive shafts at a rate of 40 a week! But that since the new design this has Drope s to a couple a week. And that basically keeping it in low, avoiding hard acceleration was the only real long term fix. I explained I did not floor it much, but did drive fast (Germany 160kmh (100mph) normal, occasionally creep up to 200km. Very rarely push to 240khm 150mph) Basically driving that fast puts a lot of pressure on the drive shafts too, possibly more as driving for minutes rather than seconds.

Seems that rear motor needs replacing and that was cause of vibration I noticed. I suspect that vibration accelerated the drive shaft decay. SC seems to agree that is possible. They are going to replace the lot under warranty and then also calibrate the car camber and toe for low. (Officially they are not allowed to optimised for low, but given excessive inside rear tyre wear and mainly motorway driving they are going to make an exception…)

but I have also read elsewhere here that it is not possible to set the rear camber for low without non Tesla parts?
Ideas?

 

[Bladerunner196]

The only modification that I have done to my car was during last July, I had the N2itive’s Alignment Kit 1 installed which got rid of the shudder, and also lowers the car about 1” in standard without wearing the inside of the tires. The shudder issue is caused by the drive shafts being at too large of an angle from the wheel to the gear box, which destroys the CV joints. No different than when as a kid I put a lift kit in my pickup, but ended up destroying the universal joints in a short time. So to avoid this happening, you can lower the car to reduce this angle, but then the car will wear out the inside of the tires very quickly but the outside tread looks like no wear. So this kit replaces the linkage in both rear wheels so the camber can be adjusted and the lowering links are installed at all 4 wheels. I had to drive 400 miles to the coast to a shop to do this install and align the car and the first thing I noticed after installing the kit and aligning the car is my WH-Mile improved quite a bit, any where from 280 - 325 WH-Mile . I attached the alignment sheet showing the alignment before the kit was installed and not able to adjust the camber. (A side note, I had the Tesla shop align the car right before I drove to the coast in the hopes this would reduce the wear on my tires) and the bottom of the page shows after the kit was installed and the final alignment. Hope the link works. Please let me know if it doesn't.

Had this kit installed also. Solves shudder. High quality and works as advertised.

 

[Fred74]

I'got the new front half shafts installed for about 1k and there's some kind of vibration return, dough it's not exactly the same as before and I could live with it if it does not get any worse, it's not that auditable as before, it more like distant vibrations you feel in the steering wheel.

Fingers crossed that it doesn't get any worse....