TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

The Tesla Motors mass market car....???

Discussion in 'Future Cars' started by tdelta1000, May 5, 2011.

  1. tdelta1000

    tdelta1000 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,667
    Location:
    South Florida
    #1 tdelta1000, May 5, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2012
    Will the automotive market ever see a mass market car designed and built by Tesla Motors??? I'm not sure but I would i like to see that happen. In the past 18 months, I have seen several manufacture design and in some cases put small and cheap EVs on the road. Will TM be able to compete in this arena? If TM is going for an SUV and then a Coupe when will we expect to see a TM mass market EV? Just had some questions.
     
  2. strider

    strider Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    2,920
    Location:
    NE Oklahoma
    They are talking about a $30k price point vehicle but it will be several years. I think it's a good decision as the market is crammed w/ EV's at that price point (Leaf, Coda, and upcoming Ford, VW, Audi, BMW EV's). Like the Roadster, they're going after a segment that isn't currently served by EV's (luxury/sport sedans).
     
  3. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,266
    Given the estimated cost of just the 160 mile battery pack (there's an article somewhere that derived an educated guess), it seems unlikely we'll see a mass market price with a good range unless battery price per mile of range changes significantly.
     
  4. tdelta1000

    tdelta1000 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,667
    Location:
    South Florida
    #4 tdelta1000, May 6, 2011
    Last edited: May 9, 2011
    You guy both have good points but I think it will be a tough road to produce a, sub $30K quality, EV despite TM's successes thus far. I keep mind that TM has talked about a new Roadster and a SUV prior to the mass market EV.
     
  5. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,252
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    IMHO, The Toyota connection is the biggest factor saying that it could happen.
    Along with the fantastic deal they got on NUMMI->"Tesla Factory", they also have some ability to cooperate with Toyota who are masters of high volume, low cost, automotive mass production.
    Even if Tesla doesn't do it soon maybe we see more Tesla tech in a Toyota branded model? (Rav4-EV2 first, then perhaps a lower priced small sedan after?)
     
  6. newelectriccars

    newelectriccars New Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
    Messages:
    3
  7. tdelta1000

    tdelta1000 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,667
    Location:
    South Florida
    Hey TEG... your opinion is very valuable but I hink it will be quite some time before we see a Tesla "mass market" EV. IMHO, the dev of the SUV, Model S coupe and Roadster will delay and may even halt the TM vision of a "mass Market" EV. I may be worng but recent TM media releases show a push to other offerings first.

    Toyota could very well be the key in bring the TM vision to fruition because of their large production capabilities. How readily is toyota willing to help TM build an EV ahead or along side of its Prius line? Only time will tell what direction this will go.
     
  8. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,252
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Toyota is so big. If they wanted, I could imagine that they could have one small team helping with whatever they need to support Model S variants, and at the same time move forward on their own designs. I guess a bigger question would be about Model S power-train tech. The RAV4-EV2 prototype shows "1st gen" Roadster power-train tech. When/if will Toyota get to use the new liquid cooled Model S motor and cylindrical inverter? Will that make it into the production RAV4-EV2? Or any Toyota model ever?
     
  9. tdelta1000

    tdelta1000 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,667
    Location:
    South Florida
    TEG, I agree with you that Toyota can come in and make things happen at a fatser pace. I thought the Roadster power-train was just for the demonstration RAV4. It would be nice to see the new Model S setup make into the RAV4 because I think it has the potential to stregthen the relationship between TM and Toyota.
     
  10. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,853
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Reality check: as far as most people know, Nissan is first to market with an electric car (it's what they are telling their customers). They're not going to sit on their hands. By the time Tesla is ready to go for the smaller cars, isn't Nissan going to be pretty well established in that market?

    On the other hand, I see Tesla has a huge opportunity in the higher end market.
     
  11. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,424
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    I'm sure Tesla will find a way to differentiate their offering in the $30k market. Consider how many ICEs are available in that price range. It was always Tesla's goal to get down to that price range, and I'd be surprised if that changes, given that Tesla has the large Nummi factory already available. At a time at which the Model X was already in the plans, the time frame for Bluestar was still mentioned as about 2015-2016 (I think), although I don't think that was a fixed date, more an intent.
     
  12. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    Franz!
     
  13. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,853
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Ok... If they can build a low-cost car with 200 mile range and no one else can, then they'll blow the doors off everyone. Let's hope they can maintain their technology lead.
     
  14. tdelta1000

    tdelta1000 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,667
    Location:
    South Florida
    Doug, I agree.
     
  15. tdelta1000

    tdelta1000 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2009
    Messages:
    1,667
    Location:
    South Florida
    #15 tdelta1000, Jan 9, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2012
    This concept drawing of what could be the elusive Tesla Motors mass market car. This is a David Imai design who is currently employed with Tesla Motors.

    c01v01.JPG

    More information about the designer could be found here. A fellow TMC member (TEG) provided the us with initial designer's information on this link.
     
  16. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2009
    Messages:
    4,424
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    It does appear to have a Tesla nose. Perhaps one of several inspirations?
     
  17. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    11,923
    Looks like a vw beetle
     
  18. WhiteKnight

    WhiteKnight _____ P85 #549 _____ Sig Red / Sig White

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    627
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Would just need to be stretched for 4 doors. It will be bubbly / slippery because drag coefficient is key. It cannot be boxy, even in the back.
     
  19. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    Where are the "cat eye" glows above the headlights?

    Frantz wants to do a two two door. I hope this is it.
     
  20. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,050
    #20 stopcrazypp, Jan 9, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2012
    It's actually okay to be boxy in the back, because of the "Kamm effect", where given the suggestion of the ideal teardrop shape in the front, you can cut off the tail end and still have very similar aerodynamics.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kammback

    In fact, a lot of modern cars have abruptly ending rear edges to reduce rear turbulence, and there are certain boxy/edgy shapes you can apply to the front that actually do better than less boxy shape (because it reduces turbulence in other areas, like the wheel wells).
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/motoring/2008578336_aerocars02.html
     

Share This Page