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The thing I thought I’d like the most about my Model 3 is the thing I like the least

I know I’m going to catch some flak for this thread whatever I do, so I will try to head off at least some of it by saying up front that I still love my Model 3 overall, think it’s better than other EVs available at the same price point for a variety of reasons, and I have no intention of swapping it for something else. I’m sure I’ll get a flood of “well if you hate it so much why don’t you sell it!!” replies despite having said this 😆

But today I was ‘hypermiling’ down the motorway, sat behind a lorry that was doing a steady 56mph. I don’t normally try to squeeze out every last drop of efficiency like that, but my home charger is broken at the moment and rapid charging costs are ruinous, so needs must! As I did this, I became more and more annoyed that the car would frequently back off a few mph, let some distance build up to the lorry, then surge back up to my set speed (60mph), close right up to the lorry, then back off again, over and over. I find the adaptive cruise control in the Model 3 frequently does this. It doesn’t match the speed of the vehicle in front, it sort of matches the speed of the vehicle in front within a 5mph or so range, backing off and closing up again frequently. It is annoying.

I then thought back to my previous two cars that had adaptive cruise control, which were both VWs. In those cars, the speed always matched exactly to the vehicle in front. No backing off and surging forward, it was extremely precise. Why is the VW system so much better? Presumably because it uses a radar to detect the distance rather than relying on cameras.

It then occurred to me that when I bought the Tesla, I’d believed the hype about its ‘self-driving’ aids, believed it was the leader in this technology, and it was the thing I was most interested in trying out. However, I now think that in the real world, Tesla’s implementation of this is much worse than VW’s, and presumably other traditional manufacturers too. I tried the Enhanced Autopilot as well, but got my money back as, Autopark aside, it was hopeless. The thing I thought I would like most about the Model 3 is the thing I like the least.

Now, that’s ok overall. I’ve discovered over my time owning the car that there are many many things I love about this car, and overall those things make up for the crappy driver aid implementation. But I thought it worth posting my opinion in case belief that Tesla’s driver aids are more advanced than others is a reason anyone here is considering buying a Model 3. If you think that’s the car’s USP, and it is really important to you, then you will be disappointed. You’ll find loads of other amazing things about the car that you love, but you will be disappointed in the self-driving tech on UK roads in 2022.

I also know that data scientists are going to set me on fire for this thread, because I don’t understand the awesome potential of vision based systems, and that the AI models will learn and improve over time. That’s fine, but I bought a car in 2022 to work as a car in 2022. I didn’t buy the car for the joy of being part of a research project, or in the hope that in 5-10 years time it will surpass the abilities of cars that rely on radar. If you’re happy to accept lousy driver aid performance to be at the vanguard of a machine learning revolution then fine, but I just want features on my car to work now, like they did on my VWs.

But again, to repeat one last time - I prefer my Model 3 to my previous cars overall, and have no desire to get rid of it.

0x0-Model3_20.jpg

(Featured Image Courtesy of Tesla, Inc)
 
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Undecided_2

Member
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Jan 21, 2022
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Helensburgh
My main concern is all the talk of phantom braking - has that been an issue ? - I don’t use cruise control now but wanted to try autopilot when my M3 arrives maybe November
The adaptive CC works as well as any other car I’ve used Merc/Audi/BMW and none of those were perfect.

A lot of owners appear to have issues with AP and NOA. NOA - for us - has done some weird stuff so I don’t use it anymore.

Phantom braking on mine is usually when passing a lorry and watching the screen it appears to jump into my lane. The speed drop is about 10-15mph which feels a lot stronger than it really is. Definitely not emergency braking.
 
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init6

Active Member
Oct 16, 2020
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Well I can fiddle all I like with the settings, but it wont go more tham 10 kmh above what the car thinks is the speed limit. I have spots on the highway (130 kmh limit) where "it" is convinced theres a 30 kmh speed limit, and reduces speed accordingly, thats some dangerous stuff there, and no other systems I have tried have such "forced" max speed, above what the car think is the speed limit. Daily frustrating & dangerous situations occur!
@DrChaos is talking about the option to set the speed to the current speed - not the speed limit. Then you can choose whatever speed you want.
 

Undecided_2

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Jan 21, 2022
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Helensburgh
I don't know if others find this, but when watching the visualisation, cars are rock steady in their lane, but trucks often dance around in and out of their lanes for a moment before settling. I expect this leads to the PB. The visual object recognition needs some work on larger objects.

One U.K. owner said that their experience using AP/NOA in Europe was much better and with stable graphics. I think the software struggles with driving on the Left.
 
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Adopado

Well-Known Member
Aug 19, 2019
6,833
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One U.K. owner said that their experience using AP/NOA in Europe was much better and with stable graphics. I think the software struggles with driving on the Left.

I wouldn't have thought that on a dual carriageway driving on the left should be an issue. In some countries, particularly USA, vehicles routinely pass each other on both sides so the car has surely been developed with this "awareness".
 

Undecided_2

Member
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Jan 21, 2022
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Helensburgh
I wouldn't have thought that on a dual carriageway driving on the left should be an issue. In some countries, particularly USA, vehicles routinely pass each other on both sides so the car has surely been developed with this "awareness".
However, I doubt it’s just as simple as the car is now driving on the left hand side. CC/AP/NOA won’t undertake vehicles on the right. I’ve worked in tech for decades and issues with software can be weird and have wonderfully odd behaviour sometimes even with subtle changes. Tesla develops for driving on the right hand side predominately. So mirroring it to the Left may causes odd behaviour. Maybe our friends in EMEA could chime in.

When stationary the graphics do a dance with objects on the left hand side
 
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I don't even know what that means. Surely you can set your car to drive at, say 110kmh and it will stay at 110kmh (subject to the caveats in the manual). Are you saying you can't do this?
No. If i set speed to 80, the correct speed limit, the car might for example be convinced the limit is 60 (wrongly), and I cannot set AP higher than 60+10, hence driving 70 in a 80 zone.
 

GRiLLA

Active Member
Jul 5, 2020
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Want to have a look at those posts again and tell me who wrote them?
@GRiLLA sorry for hacking into your account :)
Forgiven, if you could respond to some emails while you are in there that would be great.

Anyway, this concept of 'dodgy software' is rather weird. Software is a machine that takes inputs and produces outputs, it's not got human attributes, it's not going to be 'dodgy' or going to have bad days etc. There is clearly a wide variation in people's experiences with the same software, there is clearly some difference in the inputs to create different outputs. I use it daily and simply don't have these issues that others experience, as much as I don't deny your experiences you can't deny mine.

There would seem to be three possible area of input that could vary to give the different outputs on the same software

1. The specific car and it's calibration etc
2. The external environment, the specific roads, weather, lighting, other traffic etc.
3. The input from the drivers in terms of configuration, follow distance, expectations and specific steering input when on TACC.

It would seem to be that this conversation highlights issues when changing lanes from people without FSD/EAP. This may well be why I have a different experience as I'm using auto lane change almost exclusively on motorways, maybe it drives differently to using base AutoPilot then stepping down to TACC to manually steer into a new lane. That's a significant difference.
 
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pgkevet

Active Member
Jul 1, 2019
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There would seem to be three possible area of input that could vary to give the different outputs on the same software

1. The specific car and it's calibration etc
2. The external environment, the specific roads, weather, lighting, other traffic etc.
3. The input from the drivers in terms of configuration, follow distance, expectations and specific steering input when on TACC.
There's a fourth possibility that tesla may have scattered variations of software even with the same release number by some additional factor such as some VIN digits - enough monkeys/typewriters approach...
 

init6

Active Member
Oct 16, 2020
2,294
1,641
Scotland
No. If i set speed to 80, the correct speed limit, the car might for example be convinced the limit is 60 (wrongly), and I cannot set AP higher than 60+10, hence driving 70 in a 80 zone.
That's really weird. I can drive at 70 mph, pull the stalk down once and the car will stay at 70mph. I can (and often do) adjust the speed with the right scroll wheel. Have you set the Set speed to "Current Speed" or "Speed Limit"?
 

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