The thing I thought I’d like the most about my Model 3 is the thing I like the least

I know I’m going to catch some flak for this thread whatever I do, so I will try to head off at least some of it by saying up front that I still love my Model 3 overall, think it’s better than other EVs available at the same price point for a variety of reasons, and I have no intention of swapping it for something else. I’m sure I’ll get a flood of “well if you hate it so much why don’t you sell it!!” replies despite having said this

But today I was ‘hypermiling’ down the motorway, sat behind a lorry that was doing a steady 56mph. I don’t normally try to squeeze out every last drop of efficiency like that, but my home charger is broken at the moment and rapid charging costs are ruinous, so needs must! As I did this, I became more and more annoyed that the car would frequently back off a few mph, let some distance build up to the lorry, then surge back up to my set speed (60mph), close right up to the lorry, then back off again, over and over. I find the adaptive cruise control in the Model 3 frequently does this. It doesn’t match the speed of the vehicle in front, it sort of matches the speed of the vehicle in front within a 5mph or so range, backing off and closing up again frequently. It is annoying.

I then thought back to my previous two cars that had adaptive cruise control, which were both VWs. In those cars, the speed always matched exactly to the vehicle in front. No backing off and surging forward, it was extremely precise. Why is the VW system so much better? Presumably because it uses a radar to detect the distance rather than relying on cameras.

It then occurred to me that when I bought the Tesla, I’d believed the hype about its ‘self-driving’ aids, believed it was the leader in this technology, and it was the thing I was most interested in trying out. However, I now think that in the real world, Tesla’s implementation of this is much worse than VW’s, and presumably other traditional manufacturers too. I tried the Enhanced Autopilot as well, but got my money back as, Autopark aside, it was hopeless. The thing I thought I would like most about the Model 3 is the thing I like the least.

Now, that’s ok overall. I’ve discovered over my time owning the car that there are many many things I love about this car, and overall those things make up for the crappy driver aid implementation. But I thought it worth posting my opinion in case belief that Tesla’s driver aids are more advanced than others is a reason anyone here is considering buying a Model 3. If you think that’s the car’s USP, and it is really important to you, then you will be disappointed. You’ll find loads of other amazing things about the car that you love, but you will be disappointed in the self-driving tech on UK roads in 2022.

I also know that data scientists are going to set me on fire for this thread, because I don’t understand the awesome potential of vision based systems, and that the AI models will learn and improve over time. That’s fine, but I bought a car in 2022 to work as a car in 2022. I didn’t buy the car for the joy of being part of a research project, or in the hope that in 5-10 years time it will surpass the abilities of cars that rely on radar. If you’re happy to accept lousy driver aid performance to be at the vanguard of a machine learning revolution then fine, but I just want features on my car to work now, like they did on my VWs.

But again, to repeat one last time - I prefer my Model 3 to my previous cars overall, and have no desire to get rid of it.

(Featured Image Courtesy of Tesla, Inc)

 

[Velums]

I didn’t go through all 14 pages of replies, but in case no one has already mentioned it, I’d like to say I’ve experienced the same phenomenon on the States. It was really annoying. Then I figured it out.

When I’m behind an 18 wheeler in the outermost lane, Autopilot will slow down a bit to allow more room in front of the car whenever there’s an upcoming exit. Immediately after passing the exit, it will speed back up again.

I believe the purpose of this is to give the system enough room to see all the lines defining the exit to avoid hitting a “gore point” on the exit.

I’ve noticed that the same phenomenon doesn’t happen when I’m following a truck in a lane that doesn’t have exits.

 

[init6]

this is the pure definition of Phantom breaking.

No one is suggesting it doesn't happen. There is just a difference in how often it happens. From nearly never to almost every trip. @GRiLLA is certainly right about the people who get it most often being the least keen to investigate why.

 

[Rooster6655]

Is that Tesla or Regulations? (Although if BMW can do hands-free below 40MPH on motorway then clearly Tesla could too ...)

What I mean is there is no standard cruise control without the traffic aware part or standard speed limiter, so its either TACC/Autopilot which will has limited ability when cars on sides of the road or nothing at all. I am not sure of regulations but I would assume there not being a problem for having a speed limiter vs manual control and no speed limiter.

For example in a 30 zone I want to be limited to 30, if I enable TACC then if there are cars on the sides then there is a good chance of it stopping unnecessarily.

 

[ACarneiro]

No one is suggesting it doesn't happen. There is just a difference in how often it happens. From nearly never to almost every trip. @GRiLLA is certainly right about the people who get it most often being the least keen to investigate why.

I have better things to do with my life, if I’m honest.
That’s for Tesla to figure out. If other want to investigate, more power to them.

 

[WannabeOwner]

this is the pure definition of Phantom breaking.

No more than once per 1,000 miles and only ever when passing a juggernaut ? for someone doing 10,000-ish miles a year that's once-a-month at the most. What I seem to reading here is some people who have far more trouble than that, as in "every trip"

I've had people here telling me that the when-passing-a-truck scenario is specifically not phantom braking - that is a vehicle recognition issue or (perhaps) if I check the dashcam footage I will find that the lorry "moved" - enough to spook AP - and that phantom braking is other scenarios - like sun-angle or bridge-shadow.

My point is why do some people seem to have way more trouble that others. I've had Tesla cars of various different build-years and not had a problem with any of them. I have a Feb 2022 Model-Y (dunno for sure but I assume "No radar") and I have no trouble with that either (except very occasionally [with all of them] when passing a big truck; never in any other scenario)

So seems to me to be configuration, or some variation in setup vs. software code.

 

[DaveNN]

you are wrong.
parallel perking assistant has squeezed Mondeo or BMW in the spots which, after first glance when I pass by, I would never even try to fit in

Perhaps, you're not very good at parallel parking?
In addition, have you ever considered that you beingb squeezed into a spot may make it difficult ( if not impossible) for the vehicles to the front and rear to extricate themselves?

 

[yessuz]

Perhaps, you're not very good at parallel parking?
In addition, have you ever considered that you beingb squeezed into a spot may make it difficult ( if not impossible) for the vehicles to the front and rear to extricate themselves?

no.
when you are driving large cow like Mondeo (MY 2015-) it's actually hard to feel the limitis.

No, when I squeeze in, usually there's plenty of space. and actually, in majority of the cases, when the gap is very narrow - then other motorists park the way it gives them much more space in front/rear

 

[Hurricane]

I have better things to do with my life, if I’m honest.
That’s for Tesla to figure out. If other want to investigate, more power to them.

My thoughts exactly. I’m really not interested in what causes the frequent PB I experience, I just want Tesla to sort it out. After nearly 3 years I’m not holding my breath.

 

[DaveNN]

no.
when you are driving large cow like Mondeo (MY 2015-) it's actually hard to feel the limitis.

No, when I squeeze in, usually there's plenty of space. and actually, in majority of the cases, when the gap is very narrow - then other motorists park the way it gives them much more space in front/rear

Hard to feel the limits?
If there is plenty of space, it's hardly a squeeze.. even more of a reason to not rely on self parking,

 

[yessuz]

Hard to feel the limits?
If there is plenty of space, it's hardly a squeeze.. even more of a reason to not rely on self parking,

no.
you drive such car, you pass the gap, car indicates that there's a parking space. I am like - wtf - a bit tight, maybe too tight.

when it parks - it is not that tight.

 

[DaveNN]

no.
you drive such car, you pass the gap, car indicates that there's a parking space. I am like - wtf - a bit tight, maybe too tight.

when it parks - it is not that tight.

I pass a gap, whether I was driving my 595 , Velar or Model 3.
I pull alongside.
I go another car length , I swing in.

We are never going to agree that you need to develop your parking skills...even though you should..

 

[Xdama]

Im more than certain that such makes auto parking systems are great but if you need a system to do it for you then....

You shouldn’t be driving

 

[yessuz]

I pass a gap, whether I was driving my 595 , Velar or Model 3.
I pull alongside.
I go another car length , I swing in.

We are never going to agree that you need to develop your parking skills...even though you should..

never needed for 22 years. do not need now.
but it's very nice and useful addition.

 

[Xdama]

My thoughts exactly. I’m really not interested in what causes the frequent PB I experience, I just want Tesla to sort it out. After nearly 3 years I’m not holding my breath.

Plus 1 for that sentiment. I’m now at a stage where I never use TACC if wifey is in the car & I only use it if traffic is very light when I’m solo. It may as well be removed from the car for me personally, it just doesn’t fill me with confidence, which defeat’s the object of it imo.…….as I have said in other threads though, I find adaptive cruise very unnatural in any car though. I was taught to look 4-5 vehicles in front and ease off the throttle not drive up and brake, which is essentially what adaptive cruise does

 

[Casss]

Plus 1 for that sentiment. I’m now at a stage where I never use TACC if wifey is in the car & I only use it if traffic is very light when I’m solo. It may as well be removed from the car for me personally, it just doesn’t fill me with confidence, which defeat’s the object of it imo.…….as I have said in other threads though, I find adaptive cruise very unnatural in any car though. I was taught to look 4-5 vehicles in front and ease off the throttle not drive up and brake, which is essentially what adaptive cruise does

I have had an amazingly problem-free few weeks on TACC/AP in the Y recently, until Saturday, at a moment in the journey when my wife was fast asleep...

The mother of all phantom brakes, followed by

Wife and child were not best impressed.

 

[candida]

at a moment in the journey when my wife was fast asleep...
Wife and child were not best impressed.

This, too. And now she really doesnt want to travel in it any more. Pretty hopeless for a family car.

1701. No bloody A, B, C or D....

 

[Xdama]

This, too. And now she really doesnt want to travel in it any more. Pretty hopeless for a family car.

1701. No bloody A, B, C or D....

This was pretty much wifey’s response after the last time it happened. Iirc her words were “that stays off while I’m in the car or you get a kick in the cahones if it does that again” …….I’m not willing to risk it

 

[AutomaticMan]

Ok, I was away from the forum for a few days and there are no 17 million pages on this thread... what happened???

I haven't gone back and read through it all yet, so apologies if anyone asked me a question I didn't reply to. But I wanted to put an update because... <dramatic plot twist music>... I've had a bit of a change of heart since my opening post!

I think I mentioned that driving a courtesy M3 that had Enhanced Autopilot (EAP) made me question my previous conclusion that it was rubbish after trialling it when I first bought the car in Feb. I now think that, actually, because I was still brand new to the car and not totally comfortable with it, didn't yet have muscle memory for the controls, etc. that I hadn't given it a fair try. By the way, did loads of people on this forum warn me that I shouldn't get EAP on day 1 of ownership and instead wait until I was used to the car? Yep. Did I listen? Nope. Were they right? Looks like it!

So I bought EAP for my Model 3 and, actually, all the driver aids seem to 'come together' somehow better when you use Navigate on Autopilot. Maybe Tesla's answer to "why is basic Autopilot worse than traditional car maker's equivalents?" might be "because our vision is for people to use our whole package of driver aids together, and buy EAP (or FSD)."

One negative I still have is that it makes odd decisions about when to change lanes sometimes. Solution: I turned off speed-based lane changes. Now I just manually initiate the lane change when I want it to happen. Seeing as even with speed-based lane changes turned on, you still have to confirm by indicating, I just indicate when I want it to change lanes and it's no more work than confirming the change would be anyway, but I make better decisions. If legislation is ever changed to allow lane changes in the UK without confirmation, I might switch speed-based lane changes back on because even if it still makes odd decisions sometimes, they will annoy me less if I'm not having to manually confirm or cancel them each time I think. I mean, if the car changes from an empty lane 1 into an empty lane 2 and then back again a few seconds later, it might lead to other motorists wondering what I'm doing, but it's no skin off my nose so long as it doesn't hold anyone up.

And otherwise, it seems a lot better! The car seems much more willing to accelerate up to set speed mid-lane change when it is doing the lane change for you, so there's a lot less need to have to manually accelerate because of it waiting an age to start returning to the set speed after a manual lane change.

I also haven't had a single phantom braking incident since getting EAP. What I did have instead once when I initiated a lane change from lane 3 to 2 into a blind spot of a lorry that was in lane 1 (which is bad driving on my part anyway, and I usually try not to do it) is that instead of slamming on the brakes part way through the lane change as it previously did in this scenario, it instead returned me to lane 3, waited a second until I had moved beyond the lorry in lane 1, and then completed the change into lane 2. I mean, still not ideal behaviour, but better than slamming on the brakes!

Also, not having all the constant bonging of cancelling/re-engaging Autopilot interrupting your music when you change lanes is a godsend.

So, I still think that Tesla's driver aids aren't quite as space age as the hype would suggest, but when you pay for the full package of them (or close to the full package... FSD in the UK doesn't offer much more than EAP though), they work together to iron out some of the annoyances you get with the basic Autopilot alone in my experience.

EAP is a lot of money. But if you've sunk like £50k+ into buying a car in the first place, may as well pay a little more to get the full experience I think.

So, yep, I've changed my mind a little since my first post... sorry for wasting 15 pages worth of all your time replying!

 

[yessuz]

Ok, I was away from the forum for a few days and there are no 17 million pages on this thread... what happened???

I haven't gone back and read through it all yet, so apologies if anyone asked me a question I didn't reply to. But I wanted to put an update because... <dramatic plot twist music>... I've had a bit of a change of heart since my opening post!

I think I mentioned that driving a courtesy M3 that had Enhanced Autopilot (EAP) made me question my previous conclusion that it was rubbish after trialling it when I first bought the car in Feb. I now think that, actually, because I was still brand new to the car and not totally comfortable with it, didn't yet have muscle memory for the controls, etc. that I hadn't given it a fair try. By the way, did loads of people on this forum warn me that I shouldn't get EAP on day 1 of ownership and instead wait until I was used to the car? Yep. Did I listen? Nope. Were they right? Looks like it!

So I bought EAP for my Model 3 and, actually, all the driver aids seem to 'come together' somehow better when you use Navigate on Autopilot. Maybe Tesla's answer to "why is basic Autopilot worse than traditional car maker's equivalents?" might be "because our vision is for people to use our whole package of driver aids together, and buy EAP (or FSD)."

One negative I still have is that it makes odd decisions about when to change lanes sometimes. Solution: I turned off speed-based lane changes. Now I just manually initiate the lane change when I want it to happen. Seeing as even with speed-based lane changes turned on, you still have to confirm by indicating, I just indicate when I want it to change lanes and it's no more work than confirming the change would be anyway, but I make better decisions. If legislation is ever changed to allow lane changes in the UK without confirmation, I might switch speed-based lane changes back on because even if it still makes odd decisions sometimes, they will annoy me less if I'm not having to manually confirm or cancel them each time I think. I mean, if the car changes from an empty lane 1 into an empty lane 2 and then back again a few seconds later, it might lead to other motorists wondering what I'm doing, but it's no skin off my nose so long as it doesn't hold anyone up.

And otherwise, it seems a lot better! The car seems much more willing to accelerate up to set speed mid-lane change when it is doing the lane change for you, so there's a lot less need to have to manually accelerate because of it waiting an age to start returning to the set speed after a manual lane change.

I also haven't had a single phantom braking incident since getting EAP. What I did have instead once when I initiated a lane change from lane 3 to 2 into a blind spot of a lorry that was in lane 1 (which is bad driving on my part anyway, and I usually try not to do it) is that instead of slamming on the brakes part way through the lane change as it previously did in this scenario, it instead returned me to lane 3, waited a second until I had moved beyond the lorry in lane 1, and then completed the change into lane 2. I mean, still not ideal behaviour, but better than slamming on the brakes!

Also, not having all the constant bonging of cancelling/re-engaging Autopilot interrupting your music when you change lanes is a godsend.

So, I still think that Tesla's driver aids aren't quite as space age as the hype would suggest, but when you pay for the full package of them (or close to the full package... FSD in the UK doesn't offer much more than EAP though), they work together to iron out some of the annoyances you get with the basic Autopilot alone in my experience.

EAP is a lot of money. But if you've sunk like £50k+ into buying a car in the first place, may as well pay a little more to get the full experience I think.

So, yep, I've changed my mind a little since my first post... sorry for wasting 15 pages worth of all your time replying!

Ah, your tread was on the front page

 

[AutomaticMan]

Ah, your tread was on the front page

Fame at last… and I missed it??