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The thing I thought I’d like the most about my Model 3 is the thing I like the least

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I know I’m going to catch some flak for this thread whatever I do, so I will try to head off at least some of it by saying up front that I still love my Model 3 overall, think it’s better than other EVs available at the same price point for a variety of reasons, and I have no intention of swapping it for something else. I’m sure I’ll get a flood of “well if you hate it so much why don’t you sell it!!” replies despite having said this 😆

But today I was ‘hypermiling’ down the motorway, sat behind a lorry that was doing a steady 56mph. I don’t normally try to squeeze out every last drop of efficiency like that, but my home charger is broken at the moment and rapid charging costs are ruinous, so needs must! As I did this, I became more and more annoyed that the car would frequently back off a few mph, let some distance build up to the lorry, then surge back up to my set speed (60mph), close right up to the lorry, then back off again, over and over. I find the adaptive cruise control in the Model 3 frequently does this. It doesn’t match the speed of the vehicle in front, it sort of matches the speed of the vehicle in front within a 5mph or so range, backing off and closing up again frequently. It is annoying.

I then thought back to my previous two cars that had adaptive cruise control, which were both VWs. In those cars, the speed always matched exactly to the vehicle in front. No backing off and surging forward, it was extremely precise. Why is the VW system so much better? Presumably because it uses a radar to detect the distance rather than relying on cameras.

It then occurred to me that when I bought the Tesla, I’d believed the hype about its ‘self-driving’ aids, believed it was the leader in this technology, and it was the thing I was most interested in trying out. However, I now think that in the real world, Tesla’s implementation of this is much worse than VW’s, and presumably other traditional manufacturers too. I tried the Enhanced Autopilot as well, but got my money back as, Autopark aside, it was hopeless. The thing I thought I would like most about the Model 3 is the thing I like the least.

Now, that’s ok overall. I’ve discovered over my time owning the car that there are many many things I love about this car, and overall those things make up for the crappy driver aid implementation. But I thought it worth posting my opinion in case belief that Tesla’s driver aids are more advanced than others is a reason anyone here is considering buying a Model 3. If you think that’s the car’s USP, and it is really important to you, then you will be disappointed. You’ll find loads of other amazing things about the car that you love, but you will be disappointed in the self-driving tech on UK roads in 2022.

I also know that data scientists are going to set me on fire for this thread, because I don’t understand the awesome potential of vision based systems, and that the AI models will learn and improve over time. That’s fine, but I bought a car in 2022 to work as a car in 2022. I didn’t buy the car for the joy of being part of a research project, or in the hope that in 5-10 years time it will surpass the abilities of cars that rely on radar. If you’re happy to accept lousy driver aid performance to be at the vanguard of a machine learning revolution then fine, but I just want features on my car to work now, like they did on my VWs.

But again, to repeat one last time - I prefer my Model 3 to my previous cars overall, and have no desire to get rid of it.

0x0-Model3_20.jpg

(Featured Image Courtesy of Tesla, Inc)
 
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I became more and more annoyed that the car would frequently back off a few mph, let some distance build up to the lorry, then surge back up to my set speed (60mph), close right up to the lorry, then back off again, over and over.

Is Tesla running Two different sets of AP code? On our 2017 X, if you close up to a car ahead, it'll just at the distance I set, and just follow. I've never experienced what you describe on AP?
 
That’s not really true though, is it? Most modern cars are looking beyond their own lane, that’s why they also have much better blind spot detection and automatic lane changing.
Blind spot detection is via radars in the rear wings and bumper and essentially independent of cruise control. But Tesla don’t want lots of independent systems and sensors that just do one function.
 
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, I can barely remeber the last time AP aborted a lane change.
Mine aborts after a few seconds and at longest a minute. It brakes every time I pass a lorry. In stop start traffic it accelerates and brakes hard and times out if changing lane. On navigate on AP it came off on to a slip road and slowed to 5 mph and the steering wheel was juddering. I tried using auto park and that was hysterical, it was like a drunk was trying to park the car! I’ve given up using most of the driving aids or putting them on the lowest setting that I can. I wish I could turn them off properly. 😕

It is going into the SC as I regularly get camera issue warnings - and they get worse at nighttime - and the SOS eCall message popping up.

Maybe I have a ghost in the system! 🤪
 
Other cars have better driver assistance features than AP on M ways?

Can you post a link?

AP on the Mway has been damn good in my experience for the last 12 months+. I use it pretty much the time on Mway runs, lane changes even in traffic is pretty smooth/good these days, I can barely remeber the last time AP aborted a lane change.

BMW and Mercedes off the top of my head.

From personal experience, the driver assistance plus system on my X3 is superior in that it maintains speed and distance, there’s no phantom braking and the automated lane changing is smooth. Added bonus, when you indicate to change lanes it will start to speed up before moving into the next lane.

The sad thing is, this is BMWs effort from 2016, their newer driver assistance professional on newer cars is even better - it even lets you be hands free on motorways under 40 mph, great for traffic jams.

Blind spot detection is via radars in the rear wings and bumper and essentially independent of cruise control. But Tesla don’t want lots of independent systems and sensors that just do one function.
I guess that explains why autopilot isn’t very good.
 
But today I was ‘hypermiling’ down the motorway, sat behind a lorry that was doing a steady 56mph. I don’t normally try to squeeze out every last drop of efficiency like that, but my home charger is broken at the moment and rapid charging costs are ruinous, so needs must!
You weren't hypermiling, you were just annoying yourself about TACC. To get any reasonable fuel saving you have to be closer to the lorry than the safe stopping distance. Driving at 50mph would have given you more saving and you could have enjoyed the journey a bit more :)
 
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there’s no phantom braking and the automated lane changing is smooth....

.....I guess that explains why autopilot isn’t very good.

Phantom braking use to be an issue some 12 months ago, but it rarely happens now if ever in our car. Lane changes are always smooth, my wife cannot tell the difference between me or AP doing it....so that might be just my own driving:).

Blindside detection actually work really well in the Tesla. It saved my bacon at least once recently, when I tried to change lane to make way for a lorry joining from the slip road. I had a quick glance in the mirror saw nothing, turned the wheel, all hell broke loose, the wheel fought me and the dash alarmed/lit up like a Xmas tree, quater of a second later a van was in my vision passing me.

It odd there is such variation in AP experiences, the biggest issue with AP is having to torque the wheel every 20-30 seconds or so, otherwise for Mway trips AP on our car does I would say 95% of the 'driving' these days.
 
Phantom braking use to be an issue some 12 months ago, but it rarely happens now if ever in our car. Lane changes are always smooth, my wife cannot tell the difference between me or AP doing it....so that might be just my own driving:).

Blindside detection actually work really well in the Tesla. It saved my bacon at least once recently, when I tried to change lane to make way for a lorry joining from the slip road. I had a quick glance in the mirror saw nothing, turned the wheel, all hell broke loose, the wheel fought me and the dash alarmed/lit up like a Xmas tree, quater of a second later a van was in my vision passing me.

It odd there is such variation in AP experiences, the biggest issue with AP is having to torque the wheel every 20-30 seconds or so, otherwise for Mway trips AP on our car does I would say 95% of the 'driving' these days.
You’re a lucky one.
In my experience, phantom braking has indeed decreased over the last couple of years but it is still very much “a thing”.
Also, it’s “a thing” that I never ever experienced in my previous VW group cars.
I am also unimpressed with AP, although I still think my M3 is by far the vast car I’ve ever owned.
 
I used to be able to use cruise control on a 30mph street in my old 10 year card, now with the super advanced autopilot this isn't possible without it nagging or needing intervention every other minute.

The voice control for phone calls on my 10 year old car also worked flawlessly compared to the Tesla, I gave up hope for improvement as couldn't make any calls on it for years, hopefully one day they will bother to fix it so I can call a contact like its 2010
 
I wonder if the variability comes down to some people have worked out when it’s ok to avoid issues. Some people are having lane change issues on A roads, personally I’d never even try on an A road, if I used any of the systems it would just be TACC. On motorways I might use lane change but only if the traffic is quite light and relatively spread out and then it’s fine. I find/feel the systems aren’t worth using in really heavy traffic in any car. We have it in both cars (the other a BMW) and I use it the same in both and both cars work pretty reliably in what I ask them to do, but I don’t ask them to do too much. I think it’s madness trying to use these systems on 2 way roads, urban areas, country lanes or complex busy motorways and yet some try, the systems engage, and then fail.
 
Blindside detection actually work really well in the Tesla. It saved my bacon at least once recently, when I tried to change lane to make way for a lorry joining from the slip road. I had a quick glance in the mirror saw nothing, turned the wheel, all hell broke loose, the wheel fought me and the dash alarmed/lit up like a Xmas tree, quater of a second later a van was in my vision passing me.
Doesn’t sound ideal to me. You probably gave the van driver a heart attack as you moved and if he braked then it could of set off a congestion shockwave.

If you were in a vehicle with normal blind spot detection when you looked in your mirror you would have seen the warning light and that would have been the end of it - no need for the system to even take active measures.
 
OP’s experience matches mine. When we first got the car it was over sensitive. It was overly adjusting to small changes in what it sensed ahead and the ride was twitchy. At some point they fixed it but now it’s far too slow to adjust speed down when catching up. It then drifts back - and if the vehicle in front accelerates it can be extremely slow to match so a very large gap builds up.

OTOH when in very slow traffic the car in front accelerates a bit, the Tesla lurches forwards then hits the brakes. I’ve had a couple of cars with adaptive cruise control and I’ve never seen anything this inept.

Re phantom braking it has improved but it’s still there. It also aborts lane changes and is generally way too slow to accelerate into clear space when pulling out. Aborted changes are less common now but part of that is knowing what situations will trigger an issue and avoiding them.
 
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If true, then it is even more baffling why Tesla’s system is so much worse than VW’s. I assumed it was because Tesla was relying on camera data rather than radar data, but if not then there’s even less of an excuse for its poor performance.

The other thing VW’s system did, which was lovely, was that as soon as you put on your indicator to overtake it would start accelerating back up to your set speed. This matched normal driving so much better, because most people don’t wait until they’ve fully completed the lane change (plus a second or two for Tesla’s system to be confident that you have completed the lane change) before they start accelerating. It’s annoying to cars coming up behind you in the lane you’ve just pulled into if you then take an age to start accelerating after pulling into their lane.

For this reason, when I overtake in the Tesla I manually accelerate with the pedal, rather than waiting for the car to do it. In my VWs I never had to do this. I could drive happily for 100s of miles without touching any pedals.

I agree with this point on VW cruise control accelerating when overtaking. Even my VW Transporter campervan does this, it’s entirely logical.

That said, I have no real issues with Tesla’s implementation now that it can be set to current speed rather than speed limit. The initial speed limit only implementation was ridiculous but they fixed it. And that’s a key benefit of Tesla software, it is regularly updated to make things better (generally) or, admittedly, occasionally worse (recent UI change that I still don’t like).
 
Phantom braking use to be an issue some 12 months ago, but it rarely happens now if ever in our car. Lane changes are always smooth, my wife cannot tell the difference between me or AP doing it....so that might be just my own driving:).

Blindside detection actually work really well in the Tesla. It saved my bacon at least once recently, when I tried to change lane to make way for a lorry joining from the slip road. I had a quick glance in the mirror saw nothing, turned the wheel, all hell broke loose, the wheel fought me and the dash alarmed/lit up like a Xmas tree, quater of a second later a van was in my vision passing me.

It odd there is such variation in AP experiences, the biggest issue with AP is having to torque the wheel every 20-30 seconds or so, otherwise for Mway trips AP on our car does I would say 95% of the 'driving' these days.

I agree, phantom braking hasn’t been an issue for me for a while, had a few scary incidents of it but can’t recall the last one it was certainly over a year ago. So that’s definitely improved.

Having to move the steering wheel every 20-30 seconds is the reason I usually use only TACC rather than AutoPilot on most journeys. If I have to have my hands moving the wheel every 20-30 seconds at random points on the road, I’m as well steering it myself. Generally I find that a more relaxed driving experience.
 
I agree with this point on VW cruise control accelerating when overtaking. Even my VW Transporter campervan does this, it’s entirely logical.

That said, I have no real issues with Tesla’s implementation now that it can be set to current speed rather than speed limit. The initial speed limit only implementation was ridiculous but they fixed it. And that’s a key benefit of Tesla software, it is regularly updated to make things better (generally) or, admittedly, occasionally worse (recent UI change that I still don’t like).
Except setting it to current speed and not speed limit means it will ignore even more speed limit changes than it does otherwise.
 
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If you were in a vehicle with normal blind spot detection when you looked in your mirror you would have seen the warning light and that would have been the end of it - no need for the system to even take active measures.

Or in our Lexus I could have just moved and caused a crash but the car has actual way to intervene to prevent a crash!
 
Having to move the steering wheel every 20-30 seconds is the reason I usually use only TACC rather than AutoPilot on most journeys.

You don't have to move the wheel, just put some pressure on it. I have to say it does what it's suppose to do, make you hold the wheel at all times.

I don't think I've ever just used TACC without AP, not sure I can think of a situation on the Mway when I would just use TACC?
 
Or in our Lexus I could have just moved and caused a crash but the car has actual way to intervene to prevent a crash!
I think the point was a decent blind spot warning would have made you aware before you tried to make the move, surely that has to be the first line of safety?

Most modern cars also do lane assist if you ignored the warnings and they'd intervene too. They also have cross traffic alert to stop you pulling out of a parking spot, forwards or backwards, if a car or bike is cycling past.