The thing I thought I’d like the most about my Model 3 is the thing I like the least

I know I’m going to catch some flak for this thread whatever I do, so I will try to head off at least some of it by saying up front that I still love my Model 3 overall, think it’s better than other EVs available at the same price point for a variety of reasons, and I have no intention of swapping it for something else. I’m sure I’ll get a flood of “well if you hate it so much why don’t you sell it!!” replies despite having said this

But today I was ‘hypermiling’ down the motorway, sat behind a lorry that was doing a steady 56mph. I don’t normally try to squeeze out every last drop of efficiency like that, but my home charger is broken at the moment and rapid charging costs are ruinous, so needs must! As I did this, I became more and more annoyed that the car would frequently back off a few mph, let some distance build up to the lorry, then surge back up to my set speed (60mph), close right up to the lorry, then back off again, over and over. I find the adaptive cruise control in the Model 3 frequently does this. It doesn’t match the speed of the vehicle in front, it sort of matches the speed of the vehicle in front within a 5mph or so range, backing off and closing up again frequently. It is annoying.

I then thought back to my previous two cars that had adaptive cruise control, which were both VWs. In those cars, the speed always matched exactly to the vehicle in front. No backing off and surging forward, it was extremely precise. Why is the VW system so much better? Presumably because it uses a radar to detect the distance rather than relying on cameras.

It then occurred to me that when I bought the Tesla, I’d believed the hype about its ‘self-driving’ aids, believed it was the leader in this technology, and it was the thing I was most interested in trying out. However, I now think that in the real world, Tesla’s implementation of this is much worse than VW’s, and presumably other traditional manufacturers too. I tried the Enhanced Autopilot as well, but got my money back as, Autopark aside, it was hopeless. The thing I thought I would like most about the Model 3 is the thing I like the least.

Now, that’s ok overall. I’ve discovered over my time owning the car that there are many many things I love about this car, and overall those things make up for the crappy driver aid implementation. But I thought it worth posting my opinion in case belief that Tesla’s driver aids are more advanced than others is a reason anyone here is considering buying a Model 3. If you think that’s the car’s USP, and it is really important to you, then you will be disappointed. You’ll find loads of other amazing things about the car that you love, but you will be disappointed in the self-driving tech on UK roads in 2022.

I also know that data scientists are going to set me on fire for this thread, because I don’t understand the awesome potential of vision based systems, and that the AI models will learn and improve over time. That’s fine, but I bought a car in 2022 to work as a car in 2022. I didn’t buy the car for the joy of being part of a research project, or in the hope that in 5-10 years time it will surpass the abilities of cars that rely on radar. If you’re happy to accept lousy driver aid performance to be at the vanguard of a machine learning revolution then fine, but I just want features on my car to work now, like they did on my VWs.

But again, to repeat one last time - I prefer my Model 3 to my previous cars overall, and have no desire to get rid of it.

(Featured Image Courtesy of Tesla, Inc)

 

[MrT3]

Or in our Lexus I could have just moved and caused a crash but the car has actual way to intervene to prevent a crash!

Let’s not get into ridiculous comparisons. If your Lexus doesn’t have BSM then the Tesla will be better. But compared to a vehicle with traditional BSM, the Tesla system is inferior.

 

[init6]

Other makers have variable systems too. My last BMW was soooo slow to overtake in CC and my Tesla is much much better. Auto wipers are much better in the Tesla than the not inexpensive 5 series I had. In fact the Tesla has improved in the 18 months I've had it. I'd have been stuck with the BMW system for the duration of the lease.

There are no perfect cars. You have to decide what is important to you and live with the compromises that decision entails.

 

[DM206433]

Completely agree with everything the OP has said about his Model 3 - I have just about the same experience in mine.

It’s an incredible drivetrain paired with half baked software. If I could take the Tesla motors/battery and pair them with BMW’s latest iDrive system that’d be just about perfect for me. My M135i’s infotainment and assistance systems were an absolute world ahead of my Model 3’s.

 

[MkPotato]

Having come from an Audi, I’d agree that whilst Tesla may have been ahead a few years ago, the smart systems are a bit of a mixed bunch now the other manufacturers have been at it for a while.

Particularly the Audi speed limit recognition was much better (although not perfect). Also, it seems ridiculous that the Tesla lane-keeping cancels itself when apply any turn to the steering wheel (but at the same time nags you to keep your hands on the wheel - it’s a terrible system). Similarly Audi would let you change lanes then resume lane-keeping when you’ve moved. There’s no reason that Tesla couldn’t implement it the same way. Instead they’ve chosen to make it very user-hostile.

Plus the auto wipers are very poor compared to Audi (Which again weren’t perfect).

 

[Wol747]

I think the thing that annoys me - and many others - is contained in one word: Hubris.
It's not confine to Tesla: it appears to be the defining characteristic of so much of the IT world from "smart" TVs, most modern cars, so-called "artificial intelligence" and the rest.
What I mean is that we, the consumer, gets to pay for and own various products that are advertised as being capable to do XXX and YYY and ZZZ: we find that many of the promises don't work or only partially work - yet the designers plough on with "updated" versions in the belief that what they've sold actually does what it says on the tin.
So we, the consumer, is the white rat doing the testing - but no-one actually looks at the testing data and says" hang on, we aren't actually doing what we said we could.
I bought a smart TV: excellent picture and sound that is good enough that I can understand some of the BBC series' dialogue <g>. When I got it home the remote has one button on it - you talk to the thing to change channels, bring up the menus etc. Nine times out of ten the screen then shows the message "I'm sorry, I'm rather busy at the moment - try again later". BUSY AT WHAT FOR GOD'S SAKE !!!
Tesla are rapidly getting to this stage. Although one or two updates have improved some things for some people there's an awful lot of the software that is frankly not fit for purpose - and this in a 2 1/2 tonne machine on public roads.
In the US and Canada the beta testing rolls on with complex programming driving private testers who have little or no idea how the car is MEANT to react to various situations. Arguably FSD software is orders of magnitude more complex than that in aircraft - test pilots aren't given a new plane to test without deep knowledge about its capabilities and methodology.
I used to be a Musk fan, I love driving the car but I wouldn't dream of buying shares. I can see the day when those who bought the FSD have to be refunded.

 

[GRiLLA]

Never had an experience like the OP, but perhaps I've also not tried to drive at 56mph close to a lorry in order to save 50p.

Aren't all the other systems variants of Intel MobileEye, rather than being built by manufacturers. We have some variant of that on our Leaf as Pro Pilot, it's a convenient driver aid but no where near as relaxing to use on a long journey as AutoPilot.

I think giving trials of FSD is the wrong move, it takes more than 24hrs to learn how to use it correctly. I think it's like one pedal driving, first few times I used it I was all over the place, but now I drive significantly more smoothly than before. You need to know what you are doing.

I've got a new Model 3 coming on 30/6, it'll be interesting to see if it drives the same as my current as it really bewilders me how people report so many issues. If I can exclude cars being different then it's clearly the driver.

 

[Peter 224]

I'm another who will end up in the Flames of Musk...

Tesla has the best battery and motor software control of any vehicle I've driven. It remains streets ahead of the competition. The other features range from good (Audio) through iffy (wipers) to terrible (Cruise Control)
The rest of the car is OK, but somewhat built to the overall price point.

We have a 2014 Morgan +8 with late 1990s BMW electronics and with that I can set the cruise control or speed limiter.
We have a 2017 Mercedes AMG C43. All the driver assistance works better than the Tesla.

Tesla's hyped "Self Driving" is about as true to promise as the promises of most politicians: I'll be long dead and buried before both the Stonehenge bypass and reliable self driving cars are a reality.

 

[Hurricane]

If I can exclude cars being different then it's clearly the driver.

I disagree. If I’m driving along the motorway using NOA and the car slams the brakes on for no discernible reason then it’s not the fault of the driver. If the wipers don’t work fast enough in heavy rain then wipe away like mad in clear sunshine it’s nothing to do with the driver. If the auto lights don’t dim in time for oncoming cars so you keep getting flashed it’s nothing to do with the driver.

I can’t explain why different drivers have different experiences. But we clearly can’t blame Tesla’s utterly brilliant, best in the world, leagues ahead of anyone else software so let’s blame the driver.

 

[Artiste]

I can’t explain why different drivers have different experiences. But we clearly can’t blame Tesla’s utterly brilliant, best in the world, leagues ahead of anyone else software so let’s blame the driver.

it still amazes me that there are people who will tolerate no criticism of Tesla, however much that criticism might be deserved.

 

[Adopado]

But today I was ‘hypermiling’ down the motorway, sat behind a lorry that was doing a steady 56mph. I don’t normally try to squeeze out every last drop of efficiency like that, but my home charger is broken at the moment and rapid charging costs are ruinous, so needs must! As I did this, I became more and more annoyed that the car would frequently back off a few mph, let some distance build up to the lorry, then surge back up to my set speed (60mph), close right up to the lorry, then back off again, over and over. I find the adaptive cruise control in the Model 3 frequently does this. It doesn’t match the speed of the vehicle in front, it sort of matches the speed of the vehicle in front within a 5mph or so range, backing off and closing up again frequently. It is annoying.

If you are close enough to an HGV to actually save more energy you are too close to be safe (i.e. 2 main issues: to close for HGV to see you in his/her mirrors ... and also well inside a safe braking distance.) You will make gains from driving at the slower speeds of course, whether or not you are tucked up behind an HGV.

I'm no great fan of the TACC but if set at max distance my own car doesn't close up and back off in the way described (though I do recall this inconsistent behaviour on earlier software versions ... I'm not on the very latest but I'm on 2022.12.3.2).

 

[GRiLLA]

I disagree. If I’m driving along the motorway using NOA and the car slams the brakes on for no discernible reason then it’s not the fault of the driver. If the wipers don’t work fast enough in heavy rain then wipe away like mad in clear sunshine it’s nothing to do with the driver. If the auto lights don’t dim in time for oncoming cars so you keep getting flashed it’s nothing to do with the driver.

I can’t explain why different drivers have different experiences. But we clearly can’t blame Tesla’s utterly brilliant, best in the world, leagues ahead of anyone else software so let’s blame the driver.

So you both can't explain the difference while also being completely confident that it's not the driver, gotcha.

 

[Undecided_2]

You have to be really close to benefit from the slip stream of a lorry. You’ll get turbulence first then smooth air. 25 years ago when I drove trucks the optimum was about 8-feet distance. I would do it if the truck in front knew. They would benefit as well especially up hills. They would put the hazards on to warn if they needed to slow/brake. Totally dangerous. I’ve experimented on motorcycles and it’s just too close to do safely unless you’re Rossi.

Cruise at 56 mph and you’ll still save KW. Electric motors are incredibly efficient in our cars. Less wind resistance equals less energy use.

 

[Lee Davis]

Another wild experience this morning on the M6 North just south of Stone. In the second from outside lane. Our MY had been going well using NOA, but suddenly breaks hard and turns sharply right. With my hands on the wheel I caught it, but it could have been terrible. When my wife and I calmed down we tried to determine what caused it. Our hypothesis (and we think we're right) is there has been some past roadworks, and it can still faintly see the previously painted lanes. We believe the car has become confused at the lanes and taken evasive action.

It would be nice if instead in this situation, the car provided a strong alarm asking the driver to take over instead and only if there is no response from the driver take action. Also it would be great if there was an option to automatically record xx seconds/minutes of footage prior to any intervention the car has made for driver review and possibly submission to Tesla.

 

[MrT3]

So you both can't explain the difference while also being completely confident that it's not the driver, gotcha.

How can it possibly be the fault of the driver if the system incorrectly detects a threat and slams on the brakes?

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

I've long felt things like phantom braking varies depending on time of year (shadow length), whether you're limited by the car in front or free running, actual speed, etc, relatively subtle differences that you might not notice between one day and the next, but things do change. If you drive in heavy rush hour traffic you might have an entirely different experience to someone driving the same bit of tarmac an hour later when the sun is higher, the traffic lighter, and you choose to drive 5 mph slower. so maybe if there is a driver element, although it's too strong to say "fault", a possible explanation is they use the systems to a different degree and in different situations.

The alternative is you put 10 different Teslas in identical situations and they all behave differently. Thats probably more scary for Tesla.

 

[GRiLLA]

How can it possibly be the fault of the driver if the system incorrectly detects a threat and slams on the brakes?

1. too much speed
2. too short follow distance
3. using it on inappropriate roads with parked cars, pedestrians, cyclists etc.
4. there was a perfectly good reason to brake, just the driver didn't see it

 

[mswlogo]

I’ve seen reports of this cycling before. I never had it in my 3, X or S.

One thing I always do is set travel distance to max. And even that is uncomfortably close sometimes.

 

[candida]

Our hypothesis (and we think we're right) is there has been some past roadworks, and it can still faintly see the previously painted lanes. We believe the car has become confused at the lanes and taken evasive action.

I've had this in the days when I used Autopilot (I dont anymore, I stick to TACC, and I dont like that); it was where there had been very longstanding contraflow since stood down and the car definitely saw the old (badly erased) lines. Terrifying

 

[candida]

4. there was a perfectly good reason to brake, just the driver didn't see it

Oh come on. There was a giant invisible mushroom propagating ricin spores in that shadow under a motorway bridge???

 

[AutomaticMan]

I did put ‘hypermiling’ in quotes I think? I meant to anyway.

I didn’t set the following distance to 1 to get the slipstream, just because at motorway speeds that felt like the right distance (I could see the lorry’s mirrors). If I set the following distance further, when the lorry and I move into the overtaking lane when someone else is going even slower, it would leave a big gap between the lorry and I which invites other people to cut in. I could change the follow distance whenever I need to overtake each time though I suppose as it’s easy to do. I will try that and see if it surges forward and back less when set at a longer follow distance and report back.

Why not 50mph? Because I’d be going slower than every lorry on the road and it’d be carnage with them all trying to overtake me incredibly slowly. Adaptive cruise control (when it works) makes it easy to just pick a lorry, match its speed and follow it.

Why drive so slow to save money anyway? As I said, I don’t normally. My home electric charger is broken at the moment so I’m trying to maximise efficiency until it’s fixed. There’s no Supercharger near me, so I have to fight over the few old, half-broken rapid chargers from other charging networks in the area. More than once I’ve tried every rapid charger in my town, only to find them all broken, so sat instead at Tesco for hours on the 7kW chargers instead. Not to mention, the rapid chargers are vastly more expensive than home charging would be.

This is why I care about efficiency more than I normally do at the moment! Normally I do 75mph. Home charger engineer is coming out on the 28th to inspect so I’m keeping fingers crossed it’s a quick fix

Though, to balance out my whining about the ACC being rubbish, since my charger broke and I have been driving for efficiency, the Tesla has amazed me. I’ve never got efficiency figures even close to this on my previous VW EVs (e-Golf and ID3). So efficiency is one of the many positives about the M3 that mean I have no desire to sell it despite the rubbish driver assistance aids.