Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

The thing I thought I’d like the most about my Model 3 is the thing I like the least

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I know I’m going to catch some flak for this thread whatever I do, so I will try to head off at least some of it by saying up front that I still love my Model 3 overall, think it’s better than other EVs available at the same price point for a variety of reasons, and I have no intention of swapping it for something else. I’m sure I’ll get a flood of “well if you hate it so much why don’t you sell it!!” replies despite having said this 😆

But today I was ‘hypermiling’ down the motorway, sat behind a lorry that was doing a steady 56mph. I don’t normally try to squeeze out every last drop of efficiency like that, but my home charger is broken at the moment and rapid charging costs are ruinous, so needs must! As I did this, I became more and more annoyed that the car would frequently back off a few mph, let some distance build up to the lorry, then surge back up to my set speed (60mph), close right up to the lorry, then back off again, over and over. I find the adaptive cruise control in the Model 3 frequently does this. It doesn’t match the speed of the vehicle in front, it sort of matches the speed of the vehicle in front within a 5mph or so range, backing off and closing up again frequently. It is annoying.

I then thought back to my previous two cars that had adaptive cruise control, which were both VWs. In those cars, the speed always matched exactly to the vehicle in front. No backing off and surging forward, it was extremely precise. Why is the VW system so much better? Presumably because it uses a radar to detect the distance rather than relying on cameras.

It then occurred to me that when I bought the Tesla, I’d believed the hype about its ‘self-driving’ aids, believed it was the leader in this technology, and it was the thing I was most interested in trying out. However, I now think that in the real world, Tesla’s implementation of this is much worse than VW’s, and presumably other traditional manufacturers too. I tried the Enhanced Autopilot as well, but got my money back as, Autopark aside, it was hopeless. The thing I thought I would like most about the Model 3 is the thing I like the least.

Now, that’s ok overall. I’ve discovered over my time owning the car that there are many many things I love about this car, and overall those things make up for the crappy driver aid implementation. But I thought it worth posting my opinion in case belief that Tesla’s driver aids are more advanced than others is a reason anyone here is considering buying a Model 3. If you think that’s the car’s USP, and it is really important to you, then you will be disappointed. You’ll find loads of other amazing things about the car that you love, but you will be disappointed in the self-driving tech on UK roads in 2022.

I also know that data scientists are going to set me on fire for this thread, because I don’t understand the awesome potential of vision based systems, and that the AI models will learn and improve over time. That’s fine, but I bought a car in 2022 to work as a car in 2022. I didn’t buy the car for the joy of being part of a research project, or in the hope that in 5-10 years time it will surpass the abilities of cars that rely on radar. If you’re happy to accept lousy driver aid performance to be at the vanguard of a machine learning revolution then fine, but I just want features on my car to work now, like they did on my VWs.

But again, to repeat one last time - I prefer my Model 3 to my previous cars overall, and have no desire to get rid of it.

0x0-Model3_20.jpg

(Featured Image Courtesy of Tesla, Inc)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I know I’m going to catch some flak for this thread whatever I do, so I will try to head off at least some of it by saying up front that I still love my Model 3 overall, think it’s better than other EVs available at the same price point for a variety of reasons, and I have no intention of swapping it for something else. I’m sure I’ll get a flood of “well if you hate it so much why don’t you sell it!!” replies despite having said this 😆

But today I was ‘hypermiling’ down the motorway, sat behind a lorry that was doing a steady 56mph. I don’t normally try to squeeze out every last drop of efficiency like that, but my home charger is broken at the moment and rapid charging costs are ruinous, so needs must! As I did this, I became more and more annoyed that the car would frequently back off a few mph, let some distance build up to the lorry, then surge back up to my set speed (60mph), close right up to the lorry, then back off again, over and over. I find the adaptive cruise control in the Model 3 frequently does this. It doesn’t match the speed of the vehicle in front, it sort of matches the speed of the vehicle in front within a 5mph or so range, backing off and closing up again frequently. It is annoying.

I then thought back to my previous two cars that had adaptive cruise control, which were both VWs. In those cars, the speed always matched exactly to the vehicle in front. No backing off and surging forward, it was extremely precise. Why is the VW system so much better? Presumably because it uses a radar to detect the distance rather than relying on cameras.

It then occurred to me that when I bought the Tesla, I’d believed the hype about its ‘self-driving’ aids, believed it was the leader in this technology, and it was the thing I was most interested in trying out. However, I now think that in the real world, Tesla’s implementation of this is much worse than VW’s, and presumably other traditional manufacturers too. I tried the Enhanced Autopilot as well, but got my money back as, Autopark aside, it was hopeless. The thing I thought I would like most about the Model 3 is the thing I like the least.

Now, that’s ok overall. I’ve discovered over my time owning the car that there are many many things I love about this car, and overall those things make up for the crappy driver aid implementation. But I thought it worth posting my opinion in case belief that Tesla’s driver aids are more advanced than others is a reason anyone here is considering buying a Model 3. If you think that’s the car’s USP, and it is really important to you, then you will be disappointed. You’ll find loads of other amazing things about the car that you love, but you will be disappointed in the self-driving tech on UK roads in 2022.

I also know that data scientists are going to set me on fire for this thread, because I don’t understand the awesome potential of vision based systems, and that the AI models will learn and improve over time. That’s fine, but I bought a car in 2022 to work as a car in 2022. I didn’t buy the car for the joy of being part of a research project, or in the hope that in 5-10 years time it will surpass the abilities of cars that rely on radar. If you’re happy to accept lousy driver aid performance to be at the vanguard of a machine learning revolution then fine, but I just want features on my car to work now, like they did on my VWs.

But again, to repeat one last time - I prefer my Model 3 to my previous cars overall, and have no desire to get rid of it.

View attachment 819366
(Featured Image Courtesy of Tesla, Inc)
You missed the most important feature in a great ADAS: OTA and the ability to improve over time. Most other manufacturers will sell you a 2022 ADAS and 5 years from now it will be dangerously out of date. Nobody does OTA as well as Tesla, particularly with driving control systems, as opposed to infotainment. The continuous improvements in my Model 3 Autopilot over the past 2-1/2 years is outstanding, too many to list all. One example, on a two lane road and it recognizes a cyclist on the shoulder, reduces speed and moves to the middle to give room, awesome. In Canada I have never seen that in any other ADAS, and it will save lives; more important to me than how fast it accelerates into a passing lane.. I see improvements, well beyond what is in update release notes, every month or two, and as FSD and TeslaVision improves so will capabilities in Autopilot.. I am a transportation engineer and Director of technology strategy at a multi billion dollar freight transportation company, and I believe Autopilot will keep my family safer than any other ADAS over the coming years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: timberlights
A huge part of the reason I bought my M3 was for the "self-driving" and autopilot features. I love the car and have no regrets, but definitely put too much stock into Tesla's claims about self-driving. My last car was a VW also, and I'm pretty disappointed with how, frankly, bad Tesla Autopilot is in my experience. I'm optimistic it will get better, but it's way further back than I thought it would be.
 
You missed the most important feature in a great ADAS: OTA and the ability to improve over time. Most other manufacturers will sell you a 2022 ADAS and 5 years from now it will be dangerously out of date. Nobody does OTA as well as Tesla, particularly with driving control systems, as opposed to infotainment. The continuous improvements in my Model 3 Autopilot over the past 2-1/2 years is outstanding, too many to list all. One example, on a two lane road and it recognizes a cyclist on the shoulder, reduces speed and moves to the middle to give room, awesome. In Canada I have never seen that in any other ADAS, and it will save lives; more important to me than how fast it accelerates into a passing lane.. I see improvements, well beyond what is in update release notes, every month or two, and as FSD and TeslaVision improves so will capabilities in Autopilot.. I am a transportation engineer and Director of technology strategy at a multi billion dollar freight transportation company, and I believe Autopilot will keep my family safer than any other ADAS over the coming years.
You think manufacturers are putting out ADAS that will be “dangerously out of date” in five years? What is going to change on roads worldwide in five years or how will these systems degrade?

What other ADAS have you experienced? Evasive steering assist is not exclusive to Autopilot.
 
Well, I wake up in the morning, jump in my car, and once out of the driveway, engage FSD (beta), and it takes me, with ZERO INTERVENTIONS OR DISENGAGEMENTS 55 miles to work and stops in my work parking lot. When you find another car that can accomplish this, RIGHT NOW, let me know...
You have to be on high alert for an hour or so. That's not a pleasant commute.

If they ever get it right, it will be amazing, but it's looking increasingly unlikely.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NewEnglandCld
I think you’d be surprised at what other systems are technically capable of, but Tesla is the only manufacturer who is so liberal with allowing drivers to use the functions and the risks that entails.

Many ADAS on the roads right now are MobilEye technology implemented differenty — MobilEye is also the original foundation of Tesla’s systems before they parted ways. Manufacturers limit the functionality and try to build systems that are easy to use, intuitive, and as foolproof as possible, but MobilEye tech right now can certainly attempt maneuvers like FSD Beta while putting the onus on the driver to be constantly vigilant and correct where necessary.

I don’t think any other company wants their customers taking on that risk and having bad experiences, particularly when it comes to stuff like advanced cruise control. Companies want their customers to get what they expect and for it to perform a narrow range of functions very well if not flawlessly rather than doing a broad range of stuff sorta ok.
 
Last edited:
You missed the most important feature in a great ADAS: OTA and the ability to improve over time. Most other manufacturers will sell you a 2022 ADAS and 5 years from now it will be dangerously out of date. Nobody does OTA as well as Tesla, particularly with driving control systems, as opposed to infotainment. The continuous improvements in my Model 3 Autopilot over the past 2-1/2 years is outstanding, too many to list all. One example, on a two lane road and it recognizes a cyclist on the shoulder, reduces speed and moves to the middle to give room, awesome. In Canada I have never seen that in any other ADAS, and it will save lives; more important to me than how fast it accelerates into a passing lane.. I see improvements, well beyond what is in update release notes, every month or two, and as FSD and TeslaVision improves so will capabilities in Autopilot.. I am a transportation engineer and Director of technology strategy at a multi billion dollar freight transportation company, and I believe Autopilot will keep my family safer than any other ADAS over the coming years.
every car manufacturer does updates these days.
my 2019 bmw 330e used to receive updates every now and then OTA. it also had app to control car... so nothing new. with one of the updates it pushed Android Auto and Apple car play functionality. it (AA/ACP) worked wireless as well...
 
as requested by numerous requests

Phantom braking on Motorway - Blue truck at 53rd second...

clear vision, clear sky. passed like 100s of trucks like that today, but it just decided to brake. pressed accelerator immediately, but short speed decrease is visible...
It’s obviously your fault the car shat itself and slammed the brakes on for no good reason
 
Then it cannot figure out the speed limits, and constantly choose the lowest limit it can think of, having me drive without DCC since I'm not following traffic (Mine have radar). The Golf just allowed me to set the speed I wanted, and that was it.

Is that a change in EU compared to US? In my new US model there are two modes, one for speed limit detection +/- offset and set by user. The first one is confused frequently so I switched to set by user like every other car. Is that not available on your software?

You can choose whether Traffic-Aware Cruise Control engages at the currently detected speed limit or your current driving speed. Touch Controls > Autopilot > Set Speed and choose either Speed Limit or Current Speed. If you choose to engage Traffic-Aware Cruise Control at the currently detected speed limit, you can specify an offset. Touch Set Speed Offset. You can choose a Fixed offset, in which the cruising speed adjusts by a specific number of km/h on all roads, or a Percentage offset, in which the cruising speed is adjusted as a percentage of the road's detected speed limit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: init6
as requested by numerous requests

Phantom braking on Motorway - Blue truck at 53rd second...

clear vision, clear sky. passed like 100s of trucks like that today, but it just decided to brake. pressed accelerator immediately, but short speed decrease is visible...

I think it's apparent what's happening at that moment: the tarp on the truck cargo body is very reflective and there are trees and sky apparently visible in the reflection. That doesn't quite makes sense to the nnet. The recognition that there is a truck there vs a wtf becomes less certain and it brakes in the face of uncertainty as it can't predict "this is a truck moving forward in its own lane and isn't intersecting mine". Or possibly the texture and movement makes it look like it might be moving left to right. The vision nets don't work completely like human visual cortex (which we don't understand at higher levels), it builds hierarchical mathematical features of patches of pixels. Convolutional neural networks are known to be more sensitive to textures (contrast/shapes in small/medium areas) for discrimination than humans would be as humans have a better intuitive sense of "what is the full extent of the object or really 'what is the physical object' here'?"

This is a downside of trying to be "smart", i.e. looking at objects not in your own driving lane and trying to pre-emptively predict and react. A simpler system can be more reliable for the common case as it only looks straight ahead but then it loses in other circumstances.
 
Last edited:
as requested by numerous requests

Phantom braking on Motorway - Blue truck at 53rd second...

clear vision, clear sky. passed like 100s of trucks like that today, but it just decided to brake. pressed accelerator immediately, but short speed decrease is visible...
It probably saw that mobile car crash in the inside lane :)

But seriously, could it have mistaken the flashing reflection on the top most car as indicators? Would make sense that the car transporter was the cause if you've passed hundreds of 'normal' trucks.
 
It probably saw that mobile car crash in the inside lane :)

But seriously, could it have mistaken the flashing reflection on the top most car as indicators? Would make sense that the car transporter was the cause if you've passed hundreds of 'normal' trucks.
No. Because i get same behavior once in a while when dar, when light but cloudy, etc.
 
I think it's apparent what's happening at that moment: the tarp on the truck cargo body is very reflective and there are trees and sky apparently visible in the reflection. That doesn't quite makes sense to the nnet. The recognition that there is a truck there vs a wtf becomes less certain and it brakes in the face of uncertainty as it can't predict "this is a truck moving forward in its own lane and isn't intersecting mine". Or possibly the texture and movement makes it look like it might be moving left to right. The vision nets don't work completely like human visual cortex (which we don't understand at higher levels), it builds hierarchical mathematical features of patches of pixels. Convolutional neural networks are known to be more sensitive to textures (contrast/shapes in small/medium areas) for discrimination than humans would be as humans have a better intuitive sense of "what is the full extent of the object or really 'what is the physical object' here'?"

This is a downside of trying to be "smart", i.e. looking at objects not in your own driving lane and trying to pre-emptively predict and react. A simpler system can be more reliable for the common case as it only looks straight ahead but then it loses in other circumstances.
So you’re saying it does stupid things because it’s trying to be smart? 🤣

No, I don't have to be on "high alert". I monitor what the car is doing, but it's SIGNIFICANTLY less stressful than actually driving.
There’s really no need to shout.
 
  • Like
Reactions: candida
No. Because i get same behavior once in a while when dar, when light but cloudy, etc.
Wonder if it’s the straps flapping in the wind making it look like the lorry is pulling out?

People have said it’s often on soft sided lorries so I wonder if it is the sonar sensors rather than the vision pick up movement? Hopefullly it’s something they can easily fix, doesn’t look like a complex problem.
have you submitted this to Tesla as a bug, could be something specific to to RHD cars they don’t see often?
 
Wonder if it’s the straps flapping in the wind making it look like the lorry is pulling out?

People have said it’s often on soft sided lorries so I wonder if it is the sonar sensors rather than the vision pick up movement? Hopefullly it’s something they can easily fix, doesn’t look like a complex problem.
have you submitted this to Tesla as a bug, could be something specific to to RHD cars they don’t see often?
how to submit?