The thing I thought I’d like the most about my Model 3 is the thing I like the least

I know I’m going to catch some flak for this thread whatever I do, so I will try to head off at least some of it by saying up front that I still love my Model 3 overall, think it’s better than other EVs available at the same price point for a variety of reasons, and I have no intention of swapping it for something else. I’m sure I’ll get a flood of “well if you hate it so much why don’t you sell it!!” replies despite having said this

But today I was ‘hypermiling’ down the motorway, sat behind a lorry that was doing a steady 56mph. I don’t normally try to squeeze out every last drop of efficiency like that, but my home charger is broken at the moment and rapid charging costs are ruinous, so needs must! As I did this, I became more and more annoyed that the car would frequently back off a few mph, let some distance build up to the lorry, then surge back up to my set speed (60mph), close right up to the lorry, then back off again, over and over. I find the adaptive cruise control in the Model 3 frequently does this. It doesn’t match the speed of the vehicle in front, it sort of matches the speed of the vehicle in front within a 5mph or so range, backing off and closing up again frequently. It is annoying.

I then thought back to my previous two cars that had adaptive cruise control, which were both VWs. In those cars, the speed always matched exactly to the vehicle in front. No backing off and surging forward, it was extremely precise. Why is the VW system so much better? Presumably because it uses a radar to detect the distance rather than relying on cameras.

It then occurred to me that when I bought the Tesla, I’d believed the hype about its ‘self-driving’ aids, believed it was the leader in this technology, and it was the thing I was most interested in trying out. However, I now think that in the real world, Tesla’s implementation of this is much worse than VW’s, and presumably other traditional manufacturers too. I tried the Enhanced Autopilot as well, but got my money back as, Autopark aside, it was hopeless. The thing I thought I would like most about the Model 3 is the thing I like the least.

Now, that’s ok overall. I’ve discovered over my time owning the car that there are many many things I love about this car, and overall those things make up for the crappy driver aid implementation. But I thought it worth posting my opinion in case belief that Tesla’s driver aids are more advanced than others is a reason anyone here is considering buying a Model 3. If you think that’s the car’s USP, and it is really important to you, then you will be disappointed. You’ll find loads of other amazing things about the car that you love, but you will be disappointed in the self-driving tech on UK roads in 2022.

I also know that data scientists are going to set me on fire for this thread, because I don’t understand the awesome potential of vision based systems, and that the AI models will learn and improve over time. That’s fine, but I bought a car in 2022 to work as a car in 2022. I didn’t buy the car for the joy of being part of a research project, or in the hope that in 5-10 years time it will surpass the abilities of cars that rely on radar. If you’re happy to accept lousy driver aid performance to be at the vanguard of a machine learning revolution then fine, but I just want features on my car to work now, like they did on my VWs.

But again, to repeat one last time - I prefer my Model 3 to my previous cars overall, and have no desire to get rid of it.

(Featured Image Courtesy of Tesla, Inc)

 

[Type2]

So not a software error then?

No, half baked software is definitely a Tesla speciality

 

[PerBB]

Do you have EAP or normal??

Normal

 

[PerBB]

That's really weird. I can drive at 70 mph, pull the stalk down once and the car will stay at 70mph. I can (and often do) adjust the speed with the right scroll wheel. Have you set the Set speed to "Current Speed" or "Speed Limit"?

Once on the stalk is only dcc, and there I can do whatever, but twice (AP) includes the 10kmh limit above the cars crap perception of speed limits

 

[Marty3SR+]

Agree. I don't recognise that description at all. Mine seems to work just fine

Same here. I was thinking something was defective on his until I read the posts about radar vs vision. Makes me glad I got mine when I did. Not to mention I paid a lot less and got it very quickly.

 

[DrChaos]

Trucks seem to jump lane as you get about a 45 degree angle behind them and close up. Further in front I’ve not seen that much movement. Perhaps the cameras have issues with more perpendicular movement especially with flat sided vehicles. Less differential in size to judge distance relative speed?

It's also possible that if the truck has two rear axles and two sets of tires, the vision sees those as features suggestive of a van or car. Humans integrate all parts of scenes and objects better than AI systems, which tend to find local textures and patches and then make probabilistic models/guesses from collections of them.

 

[candida]

It's also possible that if the truck has two rear axles and two sets of tires, the vision sees those as features suggestive of a van or car. Humans integrate all parts of scenes and objects better than AI systems, which tend to find local textures and patches and then make probabilistic models/guesses from collections of them.

But it renders them as trucks?

 

[yessuz]

Normal

Ah. Eap acts different

 

[init6]

Here's an interesting thing in the manual:

In situations where the speed limit cannot be detected when Autosteer is engaged, Autosteer reduces your driving speed and limits the set cruising speed to 45 mph (70 km/h).

The last time I can recall getting Phantom braking I'm sure I noticed the speed limit drop. There's a junction near Stirling where a 30MPH road runs parallel to the off ramp and I'm sure at the time I thought it had picked up the wrong speed limit. Might be worth trying to glance at the speed limit when PB occurs to see if the car has lost the true speed limit. Might also explain why it occurs near bridges (which may have lower limits set).
Just a thought.

 

[Wol747]

Here's an interesting thing in the manual:

The last time I can recall getting Phantom braking I'm sure I noticed the speed limit drop. There's a junction near Stirling where a 30MPH road runs parallel to the off ramp and I'm sure at the time I thought it had picked up the wrong speed limit. Might be worth trying to glance at the speed limit when PB occurs to see if the car has lost the true speed limit. Might also explain why it occurs near bridges (which may have lower limits set).
Just a thought.

That’s certainly a common cause of PBs, but many are not easily explained.
They have definitely become less frequent this last few years - for example slamming on the brakes approaching an overbridge at the crest of the road isn’t the problem it often was.

 

[init6]

for example slamming on the brakes approaching an overbridge at the crest of the road isn’t the problem it often was.

Wasn't that one of the problems with radar? Perhaps that has been mitigated or now less common since they removed the radar.

 

[PerBB]

Here's an interesting thing in the manual:

The last time I can recall getting Phantom braking I'm sure I noticed the speed limit drop. There's a junction near Stirling where a 30MPH road runs parallel to the off ramp and I'm sure at the time I thought it had picked up the wrong speed limit. Might be worth trying to glance at the speed limit when PB occurs to see if the car has lost the true speed limit. Might also explain why it occurs near bridges (which may have lower limits set).
Just a thought.

The forced speed reduction on AP to speed limits gives a txt on the screen, "limiting speed bla bla...". Never saw that during phantom breaking, and phantom breaking is also much more abrupt.

 

[DaveNN]

I have found that the automous cruise control is far far better than that in jags and RR previously. At least the model 3 does not anchor up when about to pass a larger vehicle , when driving in narrower lanes.
As self parking...after my Jag tried to stove me into a mini....that was in a supposed empty bay- and the tooling about as the system tries to find a big enough gap when parallel parking ... not for me.

 

[init6]

As self parking...after my Jag tried to stove me into a mini....that was in a supposed empty bay- and the tooling about as the system tries to find a big enough gap when parallel parking ... not for me.

I once had a BMW with excellent self parking. Managed to squeeze into a very tight space. So tight I had to do a 15 point turn to get it back out

 

[yessuz]

I have found that the automous cruise control is far far better than that in jags and RR previously. At least the model 3 does not anchor up when about to pass a larger vehicle , when driving in narrower lanes.
As self parking...after my Jag tried to stove me into a mini....that was in a supposed empty bay- and the tooling about as the system tries to find a big enough gap when parallel parking ... not for me.

Experience with Ford's (Mondeo 2015) and BMW self parking is only positive

 

[init6]

Experience with Ford's (Mondeo 2015) and BMW self parking is only positive

Ford/BMW fan-boy!

 

[yessuz]

Ford/BMW fan-boy!

 

[DaveNN]

Im more than certain that such makes auto parking systems are great but if you need a system to do it for you then....

 

[WannabeOwner]

Added bonus, when you indicate to change lanes it will start to speed up before moving into the next lane.

I'm pretty sure I have that, but the car in front has to be considerably slower than my target speed. maybe I'm kidding myself - definitely remember when that OTA came in for MobileEye, so maybe I'm confusing it with that?

I used to be able to use cruise control on a 30mph street in my old 10 year card, now with the super advanced autopilot this isn't possible without it nagging or needing intervention every other minute.

Is that Tesla or Regulations? (Although if BMW can do hands-free below 40MPH on motorway then clearly Tesla could too ...)

Except setting it to current speed and not speed limit means it will ignore even more speed limit changes than it does otherwise.

I have mine set to current-speed, and I'm not aware its missing any speed-change for speed signs (except motorway) ... can you tell me what scenario does it have different behaviour? I'd like to try that out

There is clearly a wide variation in people's experiences with the same software, there is clearly some difference in the inputs to create different outputs. I use it daily and simply don't have these issues that others experience, as much as I don't deny your experiences you can't deny mine.

That's my view too. I sometimes (subjective guess 1x per 1,000 miles) get sharp braking when passing a juggernaut - the same distance / colour etc. as all the other juggernauts I've passed ...), but I don't remember getting phantom braking for anything else - such as sun angle / bridge shadow etc.

This is on MS, M3 - 2019 vintage (previous MS was MobileEye) and MY

There must be some reason others are getting frequent braking

I once had a BMW with excellent self parking. Managed to squeeze into a very tight space. So tight I had to do a 15 point turn to get it back out

What no UNPARK option?

 

[yessuz]

Im more than certain that such makes auto parking systems are great but if you need a system to do it for you then....

you are wrong.
parallel perking assistant has squeezed Mondeo or BMW in the spots which, after first glance when I pass by, I would never even try to fit in

 

[yessuz]

That's my view too. I sometimes (subjective guess 1x per 1,000 miles) get sharp braking when passing a juggernaut - the same distance / colour etc. as all the other juggernauts I've passed ...), but I don't remember getting phantom braking for anything else - such as sun angle / bridge shadow etc.

This is on MS, M3 - 2019 vintage (previous MS was MobileEye) and MY

There must be some reason others are getting frequent braking

this is the pure definition of Phantom breaking.