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The UK police, the YouTuber and FSD...

CMc1

supercharge.info editor
Aug 2, 2019
1,426
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North, UK
The good, the bad and the ugly?

Wiltshire police warn ‘Tesla Driver’ about using FSD on quiet 5am Sunday morning roads as the vehicle was ‘in control’ and not the driver, thus potentially breaking the law.

Tesla driver under fire from police for testing Autopilot in YouTube video

A Tesla Model 3 owner in the United Kingdom has been warned by police to not test the Autopilot capability of his electric car again because the feature is still illegal in the region.

The Tesla Driver YouTube channel showed his Model 3’s ability to navigate a notorious mega-roundabout in the United Kingdom, known as the Swindon roundabout.

The video, uploaded on August 16, showed the Model 3’s performance when attempting to navigate the roundabout. It was unsuccessful in its attempts, aborting the navigation during the several attempts that Tesla Driver recorded for his channel.


However, Wiltshire Police are now indicating that Tesla Driver was breaking the law and have formally warned him to not attempt to display the feature’s capabilities again.

“The UK’s current legislation does not allow for their [self-driving cars] use on public roads,” a spokesperson for the Wiltshire Police Department told the BBC, according to the Swindon Advertiser.

The U.K. has had several delays in both Autopilot and Full Self-Driving capabilities arriving in the region. The European Union has strict laws on the development of these capabilities, which is why Tesla’s self-driving features have not arrived in the region yet. Some countries in the EU, like Sweden, are working on revising the self-driving experimentation.

However, the spokesperson for the Wiltshire Police didn’t say that it would be a forever thing, because they expect self-driving vehicles to arrive in the area eventually. But for now, they advise people to not use the features if their cars are capable of using them.

“The development of self-drive cars appears to be accelerating and no doubt will be part of our world in the future, perhaps very soon,” the spokesperson said.

The issue with Tesla Driver’s video is that the car was ultimately controlling the movements, and not the operator himself. This is a breach of laws, which require the person behind the wheel to be dictating the vehicle’s moves while it is in operation.

“The driver in the YouTube video is breaking the law when he allows the car to take control as he is not in proper control of his vehicle and, if stopped by officers, would be asked to attend court,” the spokesperson added.

The Police Department did accept the fact that Tesla Driver attempted to navigate the roundabout while it was relatively empty on the road, which increased the safety of the experiment altogether.

“To put this into context, though, we accept he was doing this at 5am on a Sunday and the roads were very quiet. However, he was still breaking the law when allowing the car to effectively take over.”
 

Durzel

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
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Bath, UK
Clickbait story about a clickbait YouTuber.

Would not be in the least bit surprised if he reached out himself to get this statement from Wiltshire Police who, as is not altogether unpredictable, showed that they are clueless as to the capabilities of the car and the Law.

Net result - more views for his videos, and he can post one with a title saying "UK POLICE CLAMP DOWN ON ME.. MUST SEE" or some other crap, with 10 minutes of filler and 10 seconds of something vaguely relevant to the title.
 

Durzel

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
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Bath, UK
You're getting sucked in with this, I'm sorry to say. Where has it been said that they're shutting him down? They've made a statement that applies to every Tesla owner out there, and in fact if you read the statement applies to every car driver.

It's fairly obvious that you shouldn't take your hands completely off the wheel even though the car allows it for a few seconds, as you patently aren't in control if it decides to do something dramatic. That's why it requires pressure on the wheel.

"Wiltshire Police has said the driver may have been breaking the law". You could be breaking the Law if you play about with the screen too much while you're driving, or if you're doing any number of other things that distract you from driving, and they see you. This is not exclusive to Teslas. There's some distance between "you may be breaking the Law" and "we're shutting this guy's YouTube channel down" (which has never been said).

I also stand by my point that all of his videos have clickbait titles, a little snippet of what the video is supposed to be about at the start, and then 10+ minutes of monetisation fluff before the money shot. I guess that doesn't bother everyone, but it seems disingenuous to me (particularly the overly dramatic titles).
 

Neilio

Member
Jul 8, 2020
845
495
Brentford
You're getting sucked in with this, I'm sorry to say. Where has it been said that they're shutting him down? They've made a statement that applies to every Tesla owner out there, and in fact if you read the statement applies to every car driver.

It's fairly obvious that you shouldn't take your hands completely off the wheel even though the car allows it for a few seconds, as you patently aren't in control if it decides to do something dramatic. That's why it requires pressure on the wheel.

"Wiltshire Police has said the driver may have been breaking the law". You could be breaking the Law if you play about with the screen too much while you're driving, or if you're doing any number of other things that distract you from driving, and they see you. This is not exclusive to Teslas. There's some distance between "you may be breaking the Law" and "we're shutting this guy's YouTube channel down" (which has never been said).

I also stand by my point that all of his videos have clickbait titles, a little snippet of what the video is supposed to be about at the start, and then 10+ minutes of monetisation fluff before the money shot. I guess that doesn't bother everyone, but it seems disingenuous to me (particularly the overly dramatic titles).
They don’t do thAt all? Have you ever seen his videos? As the previous poster said he’s very articulate, explains his actions well and seems genuinely enthusiastic about autonomous driving and demonstrates not only a cars ability and where it’s lacking but also where roads are lacking and making it difficult for autonomous vehicles. I think his content is really well considered and presented.
 
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Durzel

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,923
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Bath, UK
They don’t do thAt all? Have you ever seen his videos? As the previous poster said he’s very articulate, explains his actions well and seems genuinely enthusiastic about autonomous driving and demonstrates not only a cars ability and where it’s lacking but also where roads are lacking and making it difficult for autonomous vehicles. I think his content is really well considered and presented.
I have watched them in the past, and I agree he's articulate, etc, but the point remains - his videos have clickbait titles, are far longer than they need to be (for monetisation purposes only), have a brief clip of what the video is supposed to be about at the start, and the money shot somewhere around the end. it's so predictable, too.

His latest one is called "Autopilot DOESN'T stop for Seagulls!" and is 16 minutes long. Cmon man. Without even watching it I can tell it's going to be one incident of a seagull being vaguely in frame, and another 15 minutes of fluff for monetisation purposes.

I accept that this is the way to play YouTube, and "don't hate the player, hate the game", but it winds me up because it's so blatently gaming the audience.
 
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Watts_Up

Active Member
Mar 4, 2019
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In a galaxy far, far away
The good, the bad and the ugly?

Wiltshire police warn ‘Tesla Driver’ about using FSD on quiet 5am Sunday morning roads as the vehicle was ‘in control’ and not the driver, thus potentially breaking the law.

Tesla driver under fire from police for testing Autopilot in YouTube video
How the Police would be able to determine if FSD is engaged or not ?

Also, this would apply to to any one using a Cruse Control ?

In Europe there are some limitations like the maximum wheels steering angle,
otherwise I don't think there is any mention of the type of road allowed or not for FSD.
 

CMc1

supercharge.info editor
Aug 2, 2019
1,426
1,277
North, UK
I say fair play. No one is forcing anyone to watch the videos. And if it’s his main source of income, which can be lucrative, then why not draw in more viewers.

Eagle eye viewers will know what’s worthwhile watching anyway. If it was “fake” then fair enough, but he’s reporting real scenarios majority of the time with a little bit exaggeration for entertainment value.

Outright lies and fabrication of the truth like the daily mail on the other hand is what should be banned. Tesla Drivers video are no way near that.
 

GRiLLA

Member
Jul 5, 2020
469
454
UK
I can't stand him, and think that his videos do harm to the cause of self-driving and to Tesla with his ludicrous claims and frankly dangerous misuse of Autopilot. It's a pure commercial deal, he would do or say anything at all to get views.

There are plenty of better channels.
 

bhav

Member
Feb 24, 2020
436
244
London, UK
I'm with @Durzel here.

He's guilty of being one of the biggest click-baiters I've seen in a long time.

He's constantly testing autopilot on roads it's *specifically* not designed for and it clearly states in the manual where it should be used, and yet he'll be startled when it does/doesn't work in other conditions and then post a video with an outlandish title.

Any of the "successes" he's posted of autopilot on city streets are total luck and nothing to do with autopilot actually being 'aware' of how to drive on that street/roundabout.

I think the police are probably right in this case anyway - ADAS, which is legal, requires you to be fully in control with your hands on the steering wheel and yet he'll frequently allow the car to steer out of control towards a kerb just to prove a point.
 

NorfolkMustard

Active Member
Apr 18, 2019
2,169
2,142
M3P w/FSD
"dictating the vehicle’s moves" and being in control of the car are different things. They specifically worded it as the former. Which makes any/all ADAS/auto emergency braking/auto emergency crash avoidance etc illegal in their eyes.
 

Glan gluaisne

Supporting Member
Sep 11, 2019
2,782
2,698
UK
Technically, the police are wrong in their interpretation of the law, in the context of the use of Autopilot in the UK right now, anyway. The law requires that the driver be in full control of the vehicle, and that remains the case when driving on Autopilot.

My guess is that the police have little or no understanding of the way that Autopilot really operates, or the measures that are built-in to ensure that the car's systems confirm that the driver is still in control. Might be an idea for someone to educate the police as to what Autopilot and FSD are really capable of doing, and the ways the car tries to continually monitor the driver's actions to ensure, as best it can, that the driver is in control.
 
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Gatsojon

Member
Aug 4, 2019
577
536
Manchester UK
I like his content. Agreed a bit longer than needed but then I wasn’t complaining about that whilst waiting the couple of months for my Tesla to land. Jeez, back in those dark days I’d watch all sorts of crappy Model 3 videos.
 
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Durzel

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
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Bath, UK
As bizarre as it sounds I don’t think the Police, individual Police forces at least, even individual officers, can be relied upon for up to the minute, precise understanding of all motoring laws.

That being said they are commenting on a driver not being in proper control, which is a specific offence that encompasses a variety of things that are not necessarily uniquely illegal, e.g. fiddling with the contents of a bag as you’re driving along, playing about with the in car display, etc where in their opinion it rises to the level of impaired driving.

I don’t know how they came to find this video, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the guy tried to get a statement himself to whip up some controversy. Be that as it may they haven’t really said anything beyond the fact that taking your hands off the wheel, Tesla or not, would ordinarily be treated as not being in proper control. I would tend to agree on principal. They haven’t said he’s being prosecuted, or anything else really, but it’s being conflated by some to suggest that AP is illegal or some other nonsense.
 
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Neilio

Member
Jul 8, 2020
845
495
Brentford
I don’t understand the click bait thing at all? Surely someone selling a product would advertise the product? Should he just put blank thumbnails and tittle his videos: FSD1, FSD2 etc?

Seems odd to be upset about someone advertising their product but fine.


I like the videos and think he comes across really well. Takes all sorts I guess
 

Durzel

Active Member
Jul 17, 2019
2,923
1,956
Bath, UK
Different strokes for different folks.

For me I feel like I can see behind the curtain, so to speak. The videos all follow the same format - a dramatic, hyperbolic title, a snippet of what the video is meant to be about up front, and then 10+ minutes of filler (enough to qualify for monetisation) before close to the end he gets to what the video was apparently supposed to be about in the first place. The reason it grates is because I know it’s done like that to game the YouTube monetisation algorithm, so I end up feeling manipulated and “used” watching it.

That, and as others have said above, he makes claims that aren’t accurate, passes off AP flukes as some kind of revelation, in scenarios AP isn’t even designed to deal with, etc. I ultimately just don’t think this content is posted in good faith, unlike - say - the Fully Charged stuff.
 
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NewbieT

Member
Aug 16, 2019
983
590
North West
I guess the law as it stands requires drivers to be in control of their car. The police take the view he wasn’t and have little choice but to uphold the law. Their response seems measured and appropriate to me under the circumstances.
 
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