The used Model S "Sweetspot" for bargain shoppers, Total budget $41k or less.

[CLOONEY003@GMA]

So for the past several weeks, I have been cramming as much Tesla knowledge down my throat to try and make sensible choices. I've made a couple of posts and I think I know where to go on the charging aspect of things now for my house but still feel a little squeamish about what to look for in buying a used Tesla Mosel S. I just sold my 2014 Lexus IS350 AWD for a decent profit and am looking to cut the gasoline out of my life for commuting to work. Sorry but I am not a fan of the Model 3(no heads up display, too small overall) and the Model S has such a "presence" that I really like not to mention roomy inside. My Lexus was very nice inside but it wasn't that roomy which is still ok, My wife and I don't have any children and we usually road trip in her Mazda CX-5. I don't have any plans to be driving a Tesla on long drives where I need to charge on the way. All of my travels will be well within range of the battery. I also don't mind tinkering with cars, I'm no mechanic but I know how to keep a car on the road without it breaking down. I'm a petrol head!

I live in Indiana so the weather is all over the place but I do not intend to drive the Tesla in the snow ( I have an older Trailblazer 4x4 for that.) but I will drive it in the winter when it is not snowing. I am also a performance enthusiast but it seems I am more fascinated with cars with quick acceleration and grip and also how sexy a car can look.

I feel the Model S fits this criteria like a glove.

Now I havent owned a RWD "car" since my first car a 1980 Chevy Monza and several Chevy S-10 pickup trucks, yes I had a GMC Syclone as well but it was AWD. All of my other vehicles have been FWD or AWD. But this is where my first question comes up that I fight myself over. AWD or RWD? Keep in mind I am budget conscious! I also dont need a "P" model either, these are plenty quick enough for me in the non "P" versions.

Question two, who should I buy from? Private seller or dealer or is there another resource I am not aware of? I have friends that can buy from auctions but those cars scare me.
My dealership experience in the last 3 weeks while looking in my area has been a disaster, no used car dealer close by knows anything about Tesla's and they let them sit on their lots without charging them. Then you ask for a test drive and they say they need charged first. I also ask questions and they give me BS answers, typical car salesman mumbo jumbo. I do not want to rush this process of finding a bargain Model S Deal and no dealer will "haggle" like they did back in the day.

I test drove a 2017 Model S 75D and loved it and the technology in it, but we couldn't agree on a price. I was amazed at seeing cars all around me showing up on the heads up display as I sat at a stop light, the whole time my wife was fiddling with the 17 inch screen. I love technology but am not sure if I would use it to its fullest on my daily commute. I also don't drive distracted like others around here on the road. I think just the thought of knowing its there is really enticing, but will I use it?

And the last question is battery size. Again, commuting only and no road trips. Id say the most I would ever drive in a day would be 150 miles, and that would be like once a month to visit family.

From looking around the forums here, it seems as though the most desirable Model S is the 2016.5 model and newer . I am assuming that is because of all of the cameras and AP2, remaining DU/Battery warranties and newer MCU? It seems however that only 2014-2015 are in my budget and if I do find that 2016 or 2017, its thousands of miles away.

I am interested in everyone's thoughts.

 

[PCMc]

2016 is a complex model year as there are actually three main different variants.

Cars produced prior to mid/late April 2016 have the original black over front end design. These will be AP1, or the first generation autopilot system.​

Cars produced between mid/late April and mid-Oct 2016 will have the new front fascia, but still have AP1.​

Cars produced after mid-Oct 2016 will be AP2, or the 8-camera based system.​

When you say 2016.5 model are most desirable, that gets into which of the 2016.5 models you're referencing. While the newer 8-camera system get's all the buzz for FSD, I would not count out an AP1 vintage mid-2016 car. I have a mid-2016 MS90D which I've owned since new, so just a little under 6 years. AP1 is very capable for interstate cruising with stable, predictable, lane keeping (auto steering) and radar assisted cruise control. Some actually feel for interstate driving AP1 is better than FSD as it seems much, much less prone to phantom braking.

I know you say you'll only use it for commuting with max 150 miles driving range, but many have found once they have their Model S they enjoy driving it so much, especially with autopilot on interstate, that it quickly becomes their preferred travel car. I have about 67k miles on my MS90D, about 40% of that is long range travel. I'll take driving it over any other car I own every chance I can get. Over Christmas holidays I did two round trips to east coast and back, one 1,500 miles in 3 days. The over 2,000 miles in 3 days. I've also driven it in all sorts of weather, including snow. Due to combination of AWD and the weight of the car, it actually handles really well in winter, even for me driving on the stock all-season tires (some in northern part of Indiana which gets much more lake effect snow do prefer switching to winter tires, especially if they have 21" wheels that tend to be performance summer tires).
So my recommendation is buy more range than you need and maybe consider a few months older car with AP1, although otherwise still roughly similar time left of battery and drive motor 8 year warranty. With getting an AP1 car you may find you can go up a notch in battery size for still about the same cost. In the winter you'll likely find you only get 75-80% of the range you do in the summer, so for you're 150 mile travel in cold Jan-Feb weather, I'd probably be looking for car with at least 250 miles of range.

If the car doesn't already, I would probably suggest you consider doing the MCU2 upgrade at some time. I finally bit the bullet and did that in mid-December. You'll find the navigation on the center console more responsive plus be able to stream video on the center console if that's a desire while supercharging if you do end up taking it on longer range trips.

I also agree that a P model is not really a big deal for me. I've driven them as a service loaner, but my my MS90D will still plant you back in your seat and honestly, after about 2 or 3 WOT launches my head starts to hurt from the acceleration forces. I can't even fathom what a new Plaid must be like.

There is an Indiana Tesla Owner's facebook page if you're not already aware. Sometimes owners will mention having a car for sale there. There are also a couple different websites which specialize in just used Tesla models.

Just my two cents. Good luck on your search.

 

[mswlogo]

Range is a big deal.

Take a 260 mile range car.

For daily use, you don’t want to charge it to 100%. Nor are you going to deplete it to 0%.

So immediately take 20% off that range number. 90% down to 10%.

Now take at least 5% off for degradation of a 5 year old car.

For winter, take another 20% off the range.

So now you are down to 55% of that 260 miles range. So on a daily basis your down to 143 miles range.

And my numbers are all on the generous side. I don’t like depleting my battery below 10%, ever, especially in winter. But many do.

 

[CLOONEY003@GMA]

Range is a big deal.

Take a 260 mile range car.

For daily use, you don’t want to charge it to 100%. Nor are you going to deplete it to 0%.

So immediately take 20% off that range number. 90% down to 10%.

Now take at least 5% off for degradation of a 5 year old car.

For winter, take another 20% off the range.

So now you are down to 55% of that 260 miles range. So on a daily basis your down to 143 miles range.

And my numbers are all on the generous side. I don’t like depleting my battery below 10%, ever, especially in winter. But many do.

I totally agree with your battery care philosophy.

 

[BrownOuttaSpec]

Just my two cents. Good luck on your search.

I 100% agree with this post.

The problem with looking for a $41k Tesla is that it is going to be at the end of it's "trouble-free lifetime". What I mean by that is that you are probably looking at something in the 2014-2015 MS85 range that is out of warranty and tiny problems are starting to pop up. Things like door handle motors, battery heater, cabin heater, AC compression, sunroof motor/seals, 12v battery, start to show their age and need replacement and become an unexpected $1k cost although some you can do yourself if you are even a little bit handy/adventurous. Throw in the possibility of the main HV battery issues in the next 1-5 years and you might have more repairs than you bargained for. Remember these were $100,000 cars when they were new so they can be expensive to fix. I'd suggest putting any money you save on gas into a 'rainy day fund' for any unexpected repairs.

Also, I would highly recommend doing the Infotainment upgrade which could cost you another $1,500, it makes the interface much snappier and feels like a new car. Additional older MCU1 cars pretty much stopped getting updates over a year ago (2021.24.28.2, latest version).

Direct Answers to your questions:
1. I would get AWD if you can find one in your budget. More even tire wear, better regen (I think), and obviously better traction. I think the tire wear is the biggest factor since a $1k set of tires can add up fast if you have to do it frequently. Since RWD uses the back tires for 100% of the acceleration and the regeneration I heard they wear down very quickly.

2. Private party vs dealer: Private party
I say private party since they will know way more than your average used car dealership and like you said probably wont leave the car sitting dead on the lot for days/weeks at a time and killing the battery. Also the dealer probably wont know ANYTHING about the car so they wont be able to answer any question you have and it isnt like a 3rd party used car dealership is going to be able to warranty the car in any meaningful way.

3. Battery size/cost: Early 2016 90 pack
2016.5 is most sought after since it is the first year of the AP2 which can eventually be upgraded to FSD (Also has the HEPA filter). An early 2016 will have AP1 and not be upgraded so it should be much cheaper. I say a 90 pack because the 85 packs have been known to be limited on their Supercharging rates but if you aren't doing that much then maybe it isn't of that much importance to you. The range difference between a 90 pack and an 85 pack is almost nothing in today's range due to the 90's degrading slightly more than an 85 pack. For example the typical range at 100,000 miles of a 90 pack is about 252, and the range of a 85 pack is about 249 miles. Those are just estimates, but you can you see that they are very close.

4. Other things to considers.

• If a car you like has bubble/goo in either the main screen or the screen behind the steering wheel maybe you can talk the person down on the price but just know that those 2 components will be replace when you do that Infotainment upgrade. So if you play your cards right you may be able to get that upgrade done later 'for free'
• I would look for "next gen seats" as an option for 2014-2015 years (standard for 2016), I feel as though they are much more comfortable.
• Every option I feel is "worth it". Air suspension probably being the most important but the premium package (power liftgate), hifi sound, cold weather package, etc. They all add comfort/convenience to the car that makes the experience even more enjoyable. Yes, they add to the "more things that can go wrong" bucket of possible repairs but it's nice to have these for everyday driving.

I own a early March 2016 MS90D and I love it! Here is a link I wrote about a trip to the mountains (Model S: Best Car ever for the Mountains!). Good luck in your purchase, used car prices are crazy and finding a MS in the low 40's might be difficult.

 

[BrownOuttaSpec]

Additionally 2 things.
1. The 'heads up display' where you see other cars is part of AP1 if the car doesn't have AP1 then you dont get that feature. Probably hard to find one that doesnt but just wanted to let you know that if you don't see it right away and only see the speed/regn meter then the car wont have that ability ever.
2. FYI: Even though the Model 3 looks way smaller on the outside its only about 10% smaller on the inside. They seem like there is a big difference but it really isn't. I still LOVE my 2016 MS90D and I am glad I didnt choose a model 3 when I was trying to make the decision between the 2.

 

[Plood]

It would be interesting to hear about “inflection points” of desirability at later and higher price points, or in future years. For instance, I’m happy with a 2018 P100d that is loaded (bought from a kind friend) and I suspect there is an earlier version that could be info upgraded for similar results.

Economically, used can be a terrific bargain that leaves ample budget for repairs out of warranty. I will have done about $1000 in interior trim to make new, info upgrade to remove yellow rectangle and some potential improvements. $1400 headlight with failed LED cosmetic segment is one of the costs that must be accounted for.

I wonder if dealers (and other buyers) undervalue some options like FSD and other upgrades that make those ones to look for at the higher dealer pricing. I’m fortunate that my friend ordered top of the line and spared no expense.

 

[CLOONEY003@GMA]

I am noticing it seems only 60,70,75 and couple 85 battery levels are the only thing in that Model year and price range online. Some are AWD and some RWD. I know what i would prefer but my budget sucks. I guess you could say I am trying to get the most with as little money as possible.

Crazy idea right??

 

[father_of_6]

Sorry but I am not a fan of the Model 3(no heads up display, too small overall)

Even though the Model 3 looks way smaller on the outside its only about 10% smaller on the inside.

Before you rule it out entirely, if you haven't driven a Model 3, I recommend you take a test drive.

I've read posts from people who didn't expect to like the Model 3, but after driving they were hooked.

My primary concern would be the battery. Replacing it costs more than $20k, and you're looking for a car that's near the end of it's warranty.

Also, I drove a 2016 Model S that wasn't nearly as nice as my Model 3... granted it was a loaner and probably lived a hard life, but wear aside it was a hunk of junk compared to a 3.

Worth taking a Model 3 for a spin, IMO.

 

[BrownOuttaSpec]

I am noticing it seems only 60,70,75 and couple 85 battery levels are the only thing in that Model year and price range online. Some are AWD and some RWD. I know what i would prefer but my budget sucks. I guess you could say I am trying to get the most with as little money as possible.

Crazy idea right??

I would stay FAR away from a 60s since they might not be able to supercharge. Also the 70s since they are a lot of research to know what one you got plus the range decrease vs an 85 pack as well. There is a article (link) and a spreadsheet around of people tracking what their 70/75 battery packs can do. It hurts my head trying to make sense of what you are really getting with a 70 pack and I don't think that Tesla offers "uncorking" anymore. You might get a deal but you'd probably get a dud with those smaller packs. Definitely worth going private party for those since the owner should be able to answer questions you have around the packs though.

 

[CLOONEY003@GMA]

Before you rule it out entirely, if you haven't driven a Model 3, I recommend you take a test drive.

I've read posts from people who didn't expect to like the Model 3, but after driving they were hooked.

My primary concern would be the battery. Replacing it costs more than $20k, and you're looking for a car that's near the end of it's warranty.

Also, I drove a 2016 Model S that wasn't nearly as nice as my Model 3... granted it was a loaner and probably lived a hard life, but wear aside it was a hunk of junk compared to a 3.

Worth taking a Model 3 for a spin, IMO.

I'm more thrown off by the lack of a heads up display on the Model 3. Im 49years old and I need to glance down, not over to the right. I think they are really nice cars, but it just isn't me.

 

[CLOONEY003@GMA]

So here's a deal until you read the CarFax!

Then you have something like this with a clean 2 owner Carfax. Manufacture date on this one is 5/16

I feel like I should be using more resources other than CarGurus, AutoTrader, Cars.com, FB Marketplace..etc

 

[roblab]

I'm more thrown off by the lack of a heads-up display on the Model 3. I'm 49years old and I need to glance down, not over to the right. I think they are really nice cars, but it just isn't me.

I own both the S and the 3, and so I think I can compare their displays. Sure, you're USED TO the display sitting right in front of you, but it takes only a few miles to get used to looking slightly to your right to see the speedometer on the 3, or any other information. I'm 78 years old, and I've never had any trouble learning to glance over to the center display on the 3 even though I usually drive my S. It probably won't take you one drive to get used to it. People can learn, even at the ripe old age of nearly fifty.

 

[CLOONEY003@GMA]

I own both the S and the 3, and so I think I can compare their displays. Sure, you're USED TO the display sitting right in front of you, but it takes only a few miles to get used to looking slightly to your right to see the speedometer on the 3, or any other information. I'm 78 years old, and I've never had any trouble learning to glance over to the center display on the 3 even though I usually drive my S. It probably won't take you one drive to get used to it. People can learn, even at the ripe old age of nearly fifty.

After i get an S i will think about a 3. Deal?

 

[mswlogo]

If someone is stretching their budge for a Model 3, it makes sense. Stretching a budget for old Model S, is nuts.

This is something people don't get.

A Model S is a $100K car, doesn't matter if you buy a brand new one or a 6 year old one, it's still expensive to own.

Let's do a little math.

I buy a brand new Model S for a $100K.

Keep it for 4 years. Latest features, no service fees because it's under warranty.
I sell it for $60K.

Cost to OWN for 4 years, $10K / year.

I buy a 6 year old Model S for $50K.

Keep it for 4 years. Doesn't have the latest features. No bumper to bumper, but does have DU and Battery covered until 8 years.

It needs door handles twice $2K
At year 3 it needs a new battery. $12K
At year 4 it needs a new DU. $8K (you sell 10 year old car with broken DU for $12K)

Cost to own for 4 years, $12.5K / year

You can get a heck of nice brand new car for $50K probably with a real HUD and Plug in Hybrid and be 90% as efficient and green.

If you do get an old S, plan to get a 3rd party warranty unless you can afford to do repairs on a $100K car.

I just looked up the tires on my Model S. They are $500.00 EACH !!!

 

[BrownOuttaSpec]

If someone is stretching their budge for a Model 3, it makes sense. Stretching a budget for old Model S, is nuts.

I agree with this as well...... @CLOONEY003@GMA If you are really stretching to afford this car, then you can't afford it. As I said above "Remember these were $100,000 cars when they were new so they can be expensive to fix.".

A new base model 3 would probably save you thousands of dollars over a used model S over the next 3-5 years between repairs (New car warranty), depreciation (new model 3 has all the HW for FSD eventually so should hold its value very well) and interest on the loan (Usually new car loans are lower rates than used car loans).

I still LOVE my 2016 MS90D that I bought for $50k but it came with an additional 4 year 50k mile warranty when I bought it from Tesla in 2019 which they no longer offer on used vehicles.

 

[father_of_6]

If someone is stretching their budge for a Model 3, it makes sense. Stretching a budget for old Model S, is nuts.

This is what I'm saying. Your budget is ballpark *brand new* Model 3... new car, new technology, new warranty, new BATTERY.

That same budget is going to get you a many years old Model S with tens of thousands of miles, battery wear and degradation, end of it's warranty, very expensive to repair, early technology (before they worked all the kinks out).

Sure, maybe everything will go okay with your 6 year old $41k Model S. Or maybe it'll need $20k worth of repairs in year 1. Are you prepared for that?

All I'd say is... before you totally write off the Model 3 because of the right-handed speedometer, I strongly suggest you take a test drive. The test drive is free, and you might just *love* the car.

 

[father_of_6]

One last thing... I find the lack of any display devices in *front* of me very nice in the M3. The road is the only thing to see... it's refreshing.

When you really need to look at the screen, it's negligible... you'd be comfortable with it in 15 minutes.

 

[Plood]

If someone is stretching their budge for a Model 3, it makes sense. Stretching a budget for old Model S, is nuts.

This is something people don't get.

A Model S is a $100K car, doesn't matter if you buy a brand new one or a 6 year old one, it's still expensive to own.

Let's do a little math.

I buy a brand new Model S for a $100K.

Keep it for 4 years. Latest features, no service fees because it's under warranty.
I sell it for $60K.

Cost to OWN for 4 years, $10K / year.

I buy a 6 year old Model S for $50K.

Keep it for 4 years. Doesn't have the latest features. No bumper to bumper, but does have DU and Battery covered until 8 years.

It needs door handles twice $2K
At year 3 it needs a new battery. $12K
At year 4 it needs a new DU. $8K (you sell 10 year old car with broken DU for $12K)

Cost to own for 4 years, $12.5K / year

You can get a heck of nice brand new car for $50K probably with a real HUD and Plug in Hybrid and be 90% as efficient and green.

If you do get an old S, plan to get a 3rd party warranty unless you can afford to do repairs on a $100K car.

I just looked up the tires on my Model S. They are $500.00 EACH !!!

Common sense for any luxury used car. But a prudent decision requires a good sense of the probabilities. I’d imagine that your scenario is probably in the 1%-10% probability zone. You probably have better data than I do on the need for battery and DU replacement in the first 10 years.

You also seem to be charging that buyer for a new DU and also selling it with a broken one.

But let’s suppose simplistically that the first 4 years the owner eats $10k depreciation per year and the next four years the owner eats $10k in repair and depreciation per year. Same cost to “rent” but you forget the cost of tying up the extra capital for the new owner.

In my case, the owner had $22.5k depreciation per year for the first four years. Plus some much smaller ownership expenses. It’s hard to come up with a repair scenario that bad for the next owner (me). Granted, I got an unusually good deal that isn’t typical. But I can be indifferent to a $1500 headlight replacement as a small cost compared to a big saving. I can even be indifferent to the resale effect of a drop of 10-20% in range

Warranties are profit generators for the underwriters so generally increase costs in the long run. Their purpose is for the owner who can only marginally afford the car and can afford a known warranty cost but not the low probably high expense.

It turns out that prices are information generated by multitudes of individuals operating freely with plenty of information and the only real mistake is thinking that there is one right answer.

Don’t forget twists like a vehicle owned by a business might be able to write off repair expenses but not the vehicle cost. And some people can self insure against low probability high cost risks and save money on the long run over multiple vehicles (and other insurance matters in life)

My assessment is that one should consider all the choices one can realistically afford and lean toward the one likely to keep you happiest the longest, because the major costs and risks are in the transition to a different vehicle. Do that every six years instead of four and you’ll be able to drive a nicer vehicle for the same effective cost.

 

[CLOONEY003@GMA]

Wow, this thread just got really depressing. I know its reality and maybe I am just dreaming and all of you make good points. But I just won an ebay bid on a Gen 3 Tesla Wall Connector. now I have a lump in my throat.

I cant even afford a Model 3.