The Volkswagen I.D. Is The Electric Future Of Compact Cars With A 373 Mile Range

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It’s like the old joke with the two hikers seeing a bear and realizing that you don’t need to be faster than the bear, just the other guy.

VW doesn’t have to be the best EV producer on the planet. They just need to beat the other producers not named Tesla to stay in the top few companies.

Of course the problem for them is different from Tesla’s. Currently they have the world’s largest ICE production that will anchor them finically unless they can scale it down on just the right speed.

The Chinese manufacturers are more in pure scale up mode which (plus huge government mandates to transition to EV) in my opinion, makes them the top challenger to Tesla.

 

[StealthP3D]

VW doesn’t have to be the best EV producer on the planet. They just need to beat the other producers not named Tesla to stay in the top few companies.

My preference is for electric cars to proliferate as fast as possible, regardless of the manufacurer. But so far I haven't seen anything compelling from VW.

It's about time they put somethong competitive (that we can actually drive) out into the marlketplace. Until then, it's all just hot air.

 

[Phrixotrichus]

You didn't answer my question.

Do you hope that other people buy from companies you think suck?

I simply don`t care. Live and let Iive. I pretty much despise Apple, but people can buy whatever they want and they`re feeding a giant amount of employees.
I make decisions for myself, not for other people.

What happened to the car VW said (in 2016) they were releasing?

The Diesel scandal wasn`t a thing back then, so why screw their core business just for the environment......
The mass of the customers outside of some internet-boards don`t remember corporate promises for longer than 2 commercials anyways

 

[bxr140]

What happened to the car VW said (in 2016) they were releasing?

That’s a really really good point that I don’t think anyone considered.

If only VW would take Tesla’s lead here—we all know Tesla’s ability to release a car on schedule is beyond reproach....

 

[Eno Deb]

What happened to the car VW said (in 2016) they were releasing?

It will be released in 2020, just like they said in 2016.

Volkswagen ID: more details of all-electric concept car at Paris Motor Show

 

[mrbulk]

Like Tesla announcing cars years in advance? Osbourning sales from their legacy models?

Like it or not, it’s straight crazy to think VW won’t do everything in their power (even regardless of legality, if history is any indicator) to not just compete with but to beat Tesla at the EV game. They’re just not willing to risk the entire company on a vision, like Elon.

We have owned five different VW's over the recent years, all were great cars so it's not like I'm anti-VW, I truly hope they succeed and
"accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy" as in Tesla's mission statement. But I fail to see how they will keep selling ICE cars if VW now says it is EV's that are better and switching to 100% EV in the future. How do they resolve the disparity in their marketing campaigns? And as StealthP3D says, what happened to the car VW said back in 2016 they were releasing?

 

[CarlK]

We have owned five different VW's over the recent years, all were great cars so it's not like I'm anti-VW, I truly hope they succeed and
"accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy" as in Tesla's mission statement. But I fail to see how they will keep selling ICE cars if VW now says it is EV's that are better and switching to 100% EV in the future. How do they resolve the disparity in their marketing campaigns? And as StealthP3D says, what happened to the car VW said back in 2016 they were releasing?

VW and all others are still making most, if not all, of their profit from selling ICE cars. They also have hundreds of billions capital invetment in ICE plants and equipments not to mention all the past R&D spending that will take a long time to depreciate. What everyone of them is doing is to talk a lot and do very little with the hope that the EV transition will take as long as possible. Tesla's job is not to let them get their way.

 

[bxr140]

I fail to see how they will keep selling ICE cars if VW now says it is EV's that are better and switching to 100% EV in the future. How do they resolve the disparity in their marketing campaigns?

Companies transition from product to product all the time. The VW group has to deal with potential Osbourning on a constant basis across their business units, especially VW and Audi in the US, but also Seat and Skoda. It is a completely baseless suggestion that VW isn't hyper aware of BEV vs ICE cross contamination; it is completely unrealistic to think that VW is going to botch the transition from petrol to electrons.

And as StealthP3D says, what happened to the car VW said back in 2016 they were releasing?

I implied this earlier, but let me be a little more direct for those who may have missed my intent: That statement is a ridiculous and uninformed attempt at diversion. All manufacturers miss dates. Tesla has infamously missed release dates on EVERY SINGLE ONE of their models. The model S, for instance, was announced in 2008 and the prototype was revealed in 2009, but the car didn't start selling until over 3 years later in 2012. The X was delayed due to well documented design issues and the 3 of course had to go through 'production hell', neither of which would have ever been issues at an established car company anywhere near the magnitude experienced by Tesla.

In other words, let's try not to throw stones from inside our panoramic roofed [and very late delivered] Teslas.

 

[NeverFollow]

It will be released in 2020, just like they said in 2016.

Volkswagen ID: more details of all-electric concept car at Paris Motor Show

The VW ID will certainly be a popular car for the $30k announced based price.

I wonder if the battery will be use a coolant or air cool?

I imagine that there will be a Performance GT-ID with upgraded suspension and an Alltrack 4 Wheels drive?

 

[StealthP3D]

It will be released in 2020, just like they said in 2016.

Volkswagen ID: more details of all-electric concept car at Paris Motor Show

Whatever "it" is. The VW ID is a moving target. Originally, we were told it would have a range of between 250-373 miles (quite a large range but hey, it was a concept car).

Now, in 2019, over a year before the car could possibly be ready to buy, the most recent information from VW projects the range will be between 205-311 miles (with the disclaimer that's using the now obsolete WLTP testing protocol). The EPA range used by the Model 3 to achieve it's 310-mile range comes in a full 30-40% lower than the quoted WLTP testing protocol. Let's be generous and assume VW isn't stretching the truth and can actually meet the stated range and that it falls in the middle of the difference from EPA ratings (35% lower than WLTP). That means the ID will have an EPA range of 133 miles to 202 miles! That's still a wide range but even if it can meet the 202 miles (EPA), well, that's not the same car VW crowed about back in 2016. As a fan of EV's in general, I sincerely hope VW can put out a car with more than an EPA rating of 202 miles! Because, as we all know, the EPA range is not necessarily the same as the real world range, particularly in winter or at higher speeds!

Fully Charged Calls Volkswagen ID Prototype "Absolutely Amazing" | CleanTechnica

So, yeah, the VW concept car sounded great when I thought it would have a range of 250-373 miles but that's a far cry from 133 to 202 miles! So I stand by my original statement, what happened to the car VW originally said (in 2016) they were releasing? Because the ID is starting to sound more and more like a Chevy Bolt which has been available since 2017 and has not been selling well. I sincerely hope I'm wrong!

 

[StealthP3D]

In other words, let's try not to throw stones from inside our panoramic roofed [and very late delivered] Teslas.

You mean, everybody and their brother can throw stones at Tesla when they miss their self-imposed deadlines but it's OK if VW misses their self-imposed deadline of 2020 and we should just shut up and wait longer? If I recall, Tesla met or exceeded the projected range of the Model 3 but VW has walked back their earlier range predictions by a huge margin. And we still don't know if they will even meet that! VW is so late to the game it's almost comical. And they have at least 10 times the resources that Tesla ever had.

You would think VW's entry into "long range" EV's would blow Tesla's offerings out of the water but it's becoming more and more apparent that will not be the case.

 

[StealthP3D]

The X was delayed due to well documented design issues and the 3 of course had to go through 'production hell', neither of which would have ever been issues at an established car company anywhere near the magnitude experienced by Tesla.

I don't know why you put "established" car companies on a pedestal above Tesla. Look at the late to market Jaguar iPace. They announced the first production vehicles rolling off the assembly line back in November 2017 and in March 2018 claimed the production line was going smoothly, that they were not in "production hell". And yet, as of the beginning of December 2018, they had produced a total of only 4,663 iPace for the entire year to date! Tesla makes that many Model 3's in about 8 days!

Jaguar Now Sells Over 2,000 I-PACE Per Month

 

[Eno Deb]

Whatever "it" is. The VW ID is a moving target. Originally, we were told it would have a range of between 250-373 miles (quite a large range but hey, it was a concept car).

The range was probably an estimate based on the NEDC method, and reflects multiple battery options for different price points, as they have already confirmed. BTW, when the Model 3 was first announced, all they said is that it would have "at least 215 miles".

Now, in 2019, over a year before the car could possibly be ready to buy, the most recent information from VW projects the range will be between 205-311 miles (with the disclaimer that's using the now obsolete WLTP testing protocol). The EPA range used by the Model 3 to achieve it's 310-mile range comes in a full 30-40% lower than the quoted WLTP testing protocol.

WLTP is not obsolete but the new and more accurate standard (the obsolete one is NEDC). Not sure where you are getting 30-40%. The stated WLTP range of the Model 3 is 544km (~338 miles), which is actually only about 10% more than the rated EPA range.

Let's be generous and assume VW isn't stretching the truth and can actually meet the stated range and that it falls in the middle of the difference from EPA ratings (35% lower than WLTP). That means the ID will have an EPA range of 133 miles to 202 miles! That's still a wide range but even if it can meet the 202 miles (EPA), well, that's not the same car VW crowed about back in 2016.

How about we wait until we actually know something before we start taring and feathering them?

 

[StealthP3D]

Not sure where you are getting 30-40%.

I added the link for that claim in my post above and copied it below:

Fully Charged Calls Volkswagen ID Prototype "Absolutely Amazing" | CleanTechnica

How about we wait until we actually know something before we start tarring and feathering them?

Like I said, I sincerely hope the VW ID is a compelling long range car but it's looking less and less like something that will compare favorably with the Model 3 LR. Yes, it will cost less but I don't think even 210 miles EPA range will meet my needs.

 

[Eno Deb]

I added the link for that claim in my post above and copied it below:

Fully Charged Calls Volkswagen ID Prototype "Absolutely Amazing" | CleanTechnica

Again, WLTP is not the obsolete method. Whoever wrote that has no idea what they are talking about.

 

[StealthP3D]

Again, WLTP is not the obsolete method. Whoever wrote that has no idea what they are talking about.

I'm not up on all the range testing protocols but if the WLTP is even 30% higher than the EPA range numbers, it should be obsolete!

I like the EPA range numbers because I find they reflect the real world to about the same degree as the EPA MPG figures, they are achievable but only if driven with a light foot and sensible braking practices.

 

[Eno Deb]

I'm not up on all the range testing protocols but if the WLTP is even 30% higher than the EPA range numbers,

But it isn't.

 

[StealthP3D]

But it isn't.

Like I said, I'm not up on all the different testing protocols. Maybe you can provide a link that proves your point beyond showing one car model that doesn't fit the 30% figure.

 

[Eno Deb]

Like I said, I'm not up on all the different testing protocols. Maybe you can provide a link that proves your point beyond showing one car model that doesn't fit the 30% figure.

See my post above (#53).

 

[StealthP3D]

See my post above (#53).

Ummm...that's the post I was referring to when I said "Maybe you can provide a link that proves your point beyond showing one car model that doesn't fit the 30% figure."