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There may be trouble ahead... new AP and FSD limitations

Discussion in 'The UK and Ireland' started by VanillaAir_UK, Jun 28, 2020.

  1. VanillaAir_UK

    VanillaAir_UK Moderator UK and Ireland

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  2. John_L

    John_L Member

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    "They also establish a speed limit of 60 kilometres (37 miles) per hour."
    So that suggests that using ALKS on motorway standard dual carriageways is going to be almost impossible. Or have I miss read these articles?
     
  3. Drew57

    Drew57 Member

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    #3 Drew57, Jun 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
    Tesla already restrict those of us in Europe vs USA to features with regulatory approval, ie when I drive a Tesla on AP or FSD in California the time requirement to move the wheel is much longer than the 15 seconds or so here. No smart summon either.

    This suggests that over the air upgrades after Dec 31st this year might implement these changes & restrict usage to motorways/dual carriageways & then only contraflows below 60kmh/37mph? Might also explain the latest updates from 2020.24.6.x beginning to use the cabin camera?

    The other grey issue will be the UK following European regs after January 1st - for now we are harmonised & I suspect the UK will have so much to do that little details like this might just roll over from EU regs for a long time to come?
     
  4. Alex987854

    Alex987854 Member

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    I wouldn't panic. The article says it applies to level 3 automation. Autopilot/FSD is level 2.
     
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  5. ChrML

    ChrML Member

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    Exactly, so Tesla should not be affected. It's for hands-off systems like Audi was intended to get for highway driving in much traffic.

    These rules are intended for level 3 systems where the machine is responsible, hence the 60 km/h speed limit. They don't want people cruising the highway at 120 km/h without paying attention and then having to get contextual awareness to take over within seconds if something goes wrong. For that they want the system to be more capable (level 4), or hands-on at level 2 like AP is now.

    Should not be slowing innovation as you can do level 2 above these limits, and level 3 below, until the system is ready for level 4.
     
  6. NorfolkMustard

    NorfolkMustard Active Member

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    Here's the press release UN Regulation on Automated Lane Keeping Systems is milestone for safe introduction of ‎automated vehicles in traffic ‎

    and the full new reg ECE/TRANS/WP.29/2020/81 - E - ECE/TRANS/WP.29/2020/81

    They're UN regs agreed for harmonisation - we'll still be a member for basic reasons like making it easy for people to drive from/to France/Ireland.

    The first relevant reg was agreed 15 years before we joined the EU :)

    Agreement concerning the Adoption of Uniform Conditions of Approval and Reciprocal Recognition of Approval for Motor Vehicle Equipment and Parts, done at Geneva on 20 March 1958 (original version);
     
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  7. NorfolkMustard

    NorfolkMustard Active Member

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    #7 NorfolkMustard, Jun 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020
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  8. ElectricJoules

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    60 kph limit on roads equipped with a physical separation dividing traffic moving in opposite directions, where pedestrians and cyclists are prohibited.

    Hard to see where you could use such a system. Sounds like it has to be on a motorway or dual carriageway, and you are limited to 37mph. Useless!
     
  9. KennethS

    KennethS Supporting Member

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    Agreed. It's as if they deliberately adopted regulations that will effectively make it impossible to use a Level 3 system on any public road system. Likely this will also discourage efforts to develop any Level 3 system.
     
  10. bhav

    bhav Member

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    It would be useful if you were stuck in traffic on such a road I guess? E.g. M25, A40, etc...

    Right now level 2 is great except for requiring repeated intervention.

    I agree though that it's almost a missed opportunity to 1) allow in more conditions/higher speed and 2) bring in forward-looking rules/regulations that would potentially have encouraged some greater innovation getting to level 3.
     
  11. tsh2

    tsh2 Member

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    The point about switching screens kind of gives it away. If you're able to watch netflix whilst hands off, it really does make sense to ensure any potential accident is low impact. This seems like a fairly narrow niche application, but will probably still give some interesting data on reliability (should be close to a perfect self-drive scenario), and even if there are failures the only damage will be to hardware.
     
  12. Yev000

    Yev000 Active Member

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    So the way I'm reading this is in 2021 I'd be able to watch Netflix at 37 Mph - on roads with divided traffic - So in a traffic jam on the M25.


    OK. I suppose Traffic jams are a bit less boring now?


    I'd rather they sort out the turn speed regulations that are actually unsafe at Lev 2
     

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