There's no replacement for displacement...oh, really

[ggr]

0-60 is about as relevant in the real word as top speed. How often do you find yourself standing on the accelerator when the red light turns green?

Rather a lot, really...

 

[Chuck P85D]

but in no way shape or form is it a sports car with exceptional handling

you don't think the P85D's 1.00g of lateral acceleration qualifies it as exceptional handling?

have you driven the P85D? no, no you haven't.

but thank god you're here or this thread would have fizzled out a long time ago.

 

[efusco]

Embarrassing. 0-60 is relevant to top speed only to a soccer mom or person who isn't a performance enthusiast. Your opinion is void. Go tell McLaren that their P1's top speed is only as relevant as its 0-60 times, and tell Porsche their 918 Spyder is only relevant for 0-60 times. They will tell you that the car is not for them and if you want a quick grocery getter than is quick for 3 seconds from a stop, then that isn't your car. Your needs of a vehicle do not put the car in a special class. You just aren't into real performance cars- glad the Tesla fits your needs, but that doesn't make it more special or relevant to real sports sedans and sports cars.

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So now performance metrics will be based on if a little old lady can knock off quick times? Wow.

Please, lets not see bench racing opinions and guesstimates - EVs are simply not there yet. I believe in 15-25 years they will be, but lets settle down. The Model S will go into thermal limp mode in only a few laps. The car is good to beat cars off the line and that's it. Stop the comparisons already! It is ignorant.

Again, you miss the point. The point is not that nothing can beat the P85D, it is that there IS a replacement for displacement, and a very efficient and effective one. Given the motor size and cost compared to a similar engine size and cost the electric motor is inarguably more efficient and powerful. It is an excellent replacement for displacement. It has nothing to do with cornering. It doesn't even really have anything to do with 1/4 mile times. It certainly has zero to do with 60-0 times. But if you get 2 similarly built vehicles, making one electric and the other ICE the comparable torque, HP and thus conversion efficiency to the road is going to favor the electric easily.

Will the P85D beat every car...nope. But that wasn't the point of my "ignorant" meme...the point is that BEV is a very good replacement for displacement...that all other things being equal, that the BEV is better, faster and more powerful.

 

[dsm363]

How does the OP's meme of joking about "no replacement for displacement" have anything to do with how many passengers fit in the vehicle?

Yes the car (P85D) is quick from 0-60 with a single driver in it. Load the car up and it's in the 4's probably. It's irrelevant as the cars horsepower and torque DROPS from idle as it spins up, where ICE cars build power as they rev up. It's quick from 0-60 that's it, and when a full EV can have thousands of horsepower and run 200-300 MPH trap speeds in the 1/4 mile can it claim it has replaced displacement.

There are some AWD vehicles that can beat Corvettes and other sports cars off the line to 0-60 too. But who cares. It would destroy them in every other category because it's a real sports car. Who cares if it beat the car off the line. At the end of the day it still fails every other performance metric.

Because people are driving 200-300mph on public in family sedans all the time? I'm having a hard time understanding your argument. I brought up how many people in seats because you are comparing dedicated sports cars to a sedan. The fact a sedan can hang with a true sports car in acceleration to 60 or 100 mph is impressive. I certainly don't care if my daily driver can't go 300 mph.

 

[Vitaman]

"0-60 is about as relevant in the real word as top speed. How often do you find yourself standing on the accelerator when the red light turns green?"
My particular commute involves merging into ongoing traffic daily. This particular merging is much easier with instant torque. In my current car I have to go through the machinations of lowering the suspension and switching to Sport mode each time. It's worth it, but I for one can certainly take advantage of really good 0-60 times (0-40 is more accurate).

 

[zro ltr]

Loving this thread. I suppose there are no Youtube videos of the P85 beating, or coming damn close to beating, some of the other cars mentioned here. I must've imagined it.

 

[mdevp]

But when an EV edges in to what has been considered "supercar" territory in at least one metric is it interesting and worthy of note (even in a humorous way)? Absolutely.

+1 This is what you are not getting about the meme. Its kind of like when a comedian or a pro-wrestler runs and wins a senate or governor's race and actually does as well or even better then the hordes of lawyers usually filling that position. No one expects an EV that can haul a family of 5 that carries twice the amount of groceries AND gets 100 mpge. Then turns around and beats/equals muscle car/M car/amg on a quarter mile. Its funny b/c no one expects an EV to be in the conversation. That doesn't make us #####, and if you are being honest how many meme's are out there from ICE guys that make fun of EV/hybrids? Its all in good fun.

 

[Johan]

God one Fusco!

To the haters:

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

Embarrassing. 0-60 is relevant to top speed only to a soccer mom or person who isn't a performance enthusiast. Your opinion is void.
Please, lets not see bench racing opinions and guesstimates - EVs are simply not there yet. I believe in 15-25 years they will be, but lets settle down. The Model S will go into thermal limp mode in only a few laps. The car is good to beat cars off the line and thats it. Stop the comparisons already! It is ignorant.

Kills F Street in Auto cross.. that is closest to my daily driving style:tongue:
will challenge(almost always beat) M3, M5, CTS-V, g37, any F street car in autocross

set a record for 5 lap auto X enduro (sadly beat by 0.3s after my run...next year)




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0-60 is about as relevant in the real word as top speed. How often do you find yourself standing on the accelerator when the red light turns green?

hehe, really? I left foot brake for this!

 

[EarlyAdopter]

0-60 is about as relevant in the real word as top speed. How often do you find yourself standing on the accelerator when the red light turns green?

With a car that is completely silent, quite a bit actually.

Certainly more than I used to with some of the other cars mentioned in this thread.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

you don't think the P85D's 1.00g of lateral acceleration qualifies it as exceptional handling?

this is probably straight line accel that they are speaking of not cornering. standard P pulls ~ -.76 straight line
but I think my P gets a little over 1g, maybe 1.1g cornering w/ lighter 19" staggered 255/285 and ~38psi (based on dash cam and Ipod accelerometers)

 

[MikeC]

How often do you find yourself standing on the accelerator when the red light turns green?

Does anyone with a Model S not do that?

 

[Chuck P85D]

this is probably straight line accel that they are speaking of not cornering. standard P pulls ~ -.76 straight line
but I think my P gets a little over 1g, maybe 1.1g cornering w/ lighter 19" staggered 255/285 and ~38psi (based on dash cam and Ipod accelerometers)

yea i have a P85 and i'm sure that 0.76g lat is accurate.

what does the P85+ do, laterally?

do you think the P85D will trump the +?

 

[wk057]

yea i have a P85 and i'm sure that 0.76g lat is accurate.

what does the P85+ do, laterally?

do you think the P85D will trump the +?

The sales rep I spoke with about the P85D said that it uses similar components to the P85+. I expect it to do just as well or better.

 

[Perfect_Flaw]

I am pretty sure this shows you EV's a long time to go before they can replace an ICE's displacement.. was the P85 even moving?

 

[bonnie]

Mod note: Several posts moved to snippiness . Apologies to innocent bystanders.

 

[Perfect_Flaw]

LOL.. and a 4 Cylinder Honda Civic keeping up with then beating a Model S

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And an AUDI S4 quickly taking down a P85

 

[artsci]

I think this whole thread is totally worth ignoring. There's nothing to prove. A total waste of time and bandwidth.

 

[Canuck]

Damn, my dreams of winning at the racetrack in my Model S have just been dashed!

But my car sure is fun and for 100% of my driving, which is around town and on the highway. For that, I beat most cars off the line (not that I race them but sometimes I just can't help myself when they goad me on) and around here racing on the highway can get your vehicle seized -- so I still haven't seen how fast my car can actually go...

but I just pulled out of my spot at this weekends race at the track.

 

[dsm363]

I think this whole thread is totally worth ignoring. There's nothing to prove. A total waste of time and bandwidth.

Agreed. It is perfectly flawed.