Oh, she definitely does, and she does appreciate that.
There have been many helpful suggestions here that perhaps I should just start driving poorly.
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Things my wife said about Navigate on Autopilot tonight
- Thread starter AlanSubie4Life
- Start date
Oh, she definitely does, and she does appreciate that.
There have been many helpful suggestions here that perhaps I should just start driving poorly.
DopeGhoti
Active Member
I have a lot fewer than ten kilomiles on AP, and I have had one instance of 'phantom' braking on a limited-access highway with nothing on the road. Cresting a hill, it seemed that the radar noticed the large metal sign attached to an overpass and thought it was a stopped car for a moment. It did not trigger AEB, but it did try to aggressively slow the car for a little under a second. This is (one of many examples of) the reason you are directed to maintain attentive control.
That said, since I'm coming at this with a hypothesis already on the table as to what happened, I doubt I'd categorize it as "random" braking. But it is an example of the sort of thing that the NN needs to be tweaked for.
Perfectly said.
I'm stealing your words; that is going to be my new boiler plate reply every time someone throws up (and I mean the puking meaning here) yet another post about, "waaaaaah! Dev's sHuLd B FiXiNg FsD noT wRiTiNG GamES!" Every time I read one of those posts, I lose brain cells. And I just don't have that many left to spare.
robdavmil
Member
Maybe it's in my head, but my theory is that the computer says "I need 10% brake to slow down in time", but in applying the brake, it also takes acceleration to 0, and just the act of letting off the "gas" is like 50% brake with the full regen on. Somehow it needs to learn to give it less gas, not brake, and things would work out fine. Again, it may be in my head, but I did this for a 500 mile trip and it seemed better. That was also an older version. Haven't tried it in the latest version which to me is jerkier than before.
copyhacker
Member
So no love for my version with the bartender cooking meals at a restaurant
Edit: Things my wife said about Navigate on Autopilot tonight
I missed that one, darn it.So no love for my version with the bartender cooking meals at a restaurant
Edit: Things my wife said about Navigate on Autopilot tonight
I never use NoA. The off-ramp dives I'm referring to happen on Autosteer. I've seen enough weirdness on Autosteer that I have completely avoided NoA. Autosteer is certainly very useful, it makes trips much less tiring, but vigilance is mandatory.
Except it’s a rather poor comparison. Both surgeon and janitor perform a critical role for the hospital, allowing it to perform its primary function. The “add-a-game guy” is not mission critical to Tesla but does use precious resources that cannot be spend on developing FSD.
I don’t use AutoSteer on off-ramps or on on-ramps. I use it to hold a lane and that’s it. And I typically avoid the right most lane. Because of that I tend only use it on highways with 3 or more lanes.
I just replace my 3 with FSD with an X without FSD. Currently and probably for a least another year FSD is fun to play with but in practice totally worthless.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Except, he doesn't.
Because they don't have an "add a game guy"
They have a "guy who does the user interface" who once every few months might spend 10 minutes adding a game to the UI menu.
Just as the hospital doesn't have a "guy who cleans up vomit specifically in the morgue bathroom" they have a janitor who does a ton of other stuff 99% of the time and once in a while also does that thing.
While I only read a sampling of posts in this long thread, I am in the camp of “my wife dislikes my use of autopilot period — not just NOA — which I rarely use because I don’t like NOA either.” I have no idea if I would dislike autopilot as a passenger because she never uses it on either Tesla, but I suspect the beeps and jerky behavior would bother me as well.
I love the technology even though it certainly has limitations. Limitations on my hit list and that of many of you include:
— Centering itself between lane markers no matter what is happening with traffic next to me or road condition in my lane is a huge limitation.
— Sudden jerky decelerations on streets when someone turns safely in front of me is another.
— Suddenly aborted lane changes when there is no logical reason is another.
—Stopping behind stopped traffic too aggressively and then being far too conservative at regaining speed when resuming is another.
—All of the beeps when engaging and disengaging, especially when I must disengage at stoplights.
— “Screaming” by the car when it thinks I need to take immediate control even though the car is often misperceiving danger. (That one really drives my wife nuts, for good reason.)
Some of my complaints listed wouldn’t exist if I didn’t use on streets, so that’s on me. But I can’t imagine waiting until FSD finally arrives in another year or two before using on streets.
I love the technology even though it certainly has limitations. Limitations on my hit list and that of many of you include:
— Centering itself between lane markers no matter what is happening with traffic next to me or road condition in my lane is a huge limitation.
— Sudden jerky decelerations on streets when someone turns safely in front of me is another.
— Suddenly aborted lane changes when there is no logical reason is another.
—Stopping behind stopped traffic too aggressively and then being far too conservative at regaining speed when resuming is another.
—All of the beeps when engaging and disengaging, especially when I must disengage at stoplights.
— “Screaming” by the car when it thinks I need to take immediate control even though the car is often misperceiving danger. (That one really drives my wife nuts, for good reason.)
Some of my complaints listed wouldn’t exist if I didn’t use on streets, so that’s on me. But I can’t imagine waiting until FSD finally arrives in another year or two before using on streets.
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david_42
Member
My wife is looking for a new job and one of the companies will require a great deal of driving, so she's interested in buying a car with limited assistance (adaptive cruise control and emergency braking). She also gets car sick if there is the slightest jerkiness in acceleration/braking. It doesn't sound like Tesla has made any improvement in these functions since the model 3 was introduced (and I canceled my reservation), which eliminates the Model 3 from consideration. Someone mentioned a 'chill' mode eliminated the jerking. Anyone else have this experience?
DopeGhoti
Active Member
I commend you for recognizing this; I see a lot of posts in a lot of places that talk about AP as though it's intended for use on surface streets, rather than simply permitted to be used there despite its stated intent and limitations.
I do agree here. The NN needs to learn that if you're in a lane and one line disappears, it should lean toward the line that's still present. I suspect that the only way Tesla drivers can get this to happen is rather than just enduring the ride, make the effort to disengage autosteer when this happens every time (which, yes, is effort), and hopefully the NN will be trained that it's doing something wrong. But that can't happen unless they get indications that something's wrong with how autosteer is navigating those areas.
I experienced this (particularly with left turns from the oncoming lane) a bit-- it went away when I started reducing my follow distance setting while on surface streets. I hope that eventually we are able to set a highway and surface follow distance separately.
A common enough complaint that in firmware v10, we're getting so-called Joe Mode which reduces the volume of all the non-emergency bleeps and bloops.
I recommend test driving the car and trying the AP for as long as necessary to determine if it will work. You could also rent one for more extensive tests. In spite of the jerkiness complaints, it’s still a really good car. And the jerkiness is definitely annoying, but I do think it is much more disconcerting as a passenger. You notice it as a driver, but to me it is not super bothersome - just annoying and frustrating since it is totally unnecessary.
Also consider that it may at some point improve a lot (since it does not require some sort of breakthrough to fix it completely - it is a solved problem in genera,l for other manufacturers, and from an engineering standpoint), though definitely don’t count on that.
Chill mode will do nothing. There’s no rational reason for it to do anything - TACC is nowhere near acceleration limits of Chill mode. It would make no sense for Tesla to make the behavior different in Chill mode as there is no difference between it and Sport mode for this domain.
It doesn’t matter if it’s a designated job/role. The point is that the non critical activity of adding a nice to have feature (game) takes up resources that cannot be spend on need to have functionality such as FSD.
As for the time aspect, keep in mind that the impact of adding a game is significantly more than one-time 10 minutes (or even a day), Not only does the game need to be developed / ported, it requires testing implementation / integration and needs to be maintained. The game and its integrations now also needs to be tested for compatibility before every system update (of which Tesla has quite a view year I believe). Ergo, the game consumes resources (in past, present and future) that will not be available for other activities (such as FSD).
You need to stop making sense, stat! We don't take kindly to that kind of thing around here.
I got it! I have the answer! Mystery solved!
The reason Autopilot is as jerky as it is, is that it was developed, tested and intended for Americans. For our European readers, we must explain that there's no such thing as off the gas and not on the brake in the US. It's highly illegal and punishable by death.
After having driven my (manual-transmission) car in Europe for a couple of weeks, on all kinds of roads and in all kinds of traffic conditions, I was picked up at the airport and driven home by my very American wife ... and then it dawned on me, that was the answer right there!
If you keep your cars a long time like I do, you will probably get a really cheap offer to add FSD when it is finally available. (I bought for $2000 during the last “sale,” but admit waiting would have probably been smarter.) And your EAP is much better than the current AP. Not having the lane change functionality would suck.
$5000 is a lot of cash but personally I would really miss EAP on both Teslas. My wife, on the other hand, never uses it and would rather have saved the big bucks we spent to have EAP and FSD on two cars. I do expect that when we finally sell the cars we should get back some of that expense.
SalisburySam
Active Member
Yes, the Model 3, or at least MY Model 3, exhibits the ever-annoying phantom braking presumably caused by glitches in the traffic-aware cruise control (TACC). This has not gone away even in v32.2.2, my current version of the firmware. I so wish I could disable the traffic-aware part and just have plain old cruise control. You can get that with a Model 3 just don’t order add-on driving enhancements like EAP which all include TACC. Braking is jerky if you’re not used to high levels of regeneration, and that can be mitigated by reducing regen. Acceleration jerkiness is caused by the driver, not the vehicle.
