This is dangerous - for my wallet. Another should I thread.

[Brass Guy]

I told everybody when I bought mine that I knew in advance it was not a good financial move, and that was not the point. There are many reasons why I took the plunge: supporting an American company, powering my vehicle with (mostly) domestic energy, supporting (specifically) Tesla and its goals, the overall efficiency, environmental impact, I was turning 50 and "you only live once," the greener the grid gets the greener the car gets, the list goes on.

I don't think anybody responded to your paragraph 3) "never owned a sedan" so: Have you considered waiting for Model X?

From your OP, paragraphs 2 and 4-16, it seems you're most concerned with spending that much money on a car. Model S is a fantastic vehicle, but just to throw another wrench at you, you could consider waiting for Model 3 - but waiting's no fun and there's nobody knows how long that wait may be.

As far as "appearances," I have not encountered any bad reactions. Some people are surprised I bought it considering its price, but everybody I encounter is supportive and excited to see it - not in the same way as one might be excited to see an exotic sports car.
I'm glad to read that you've likely opted away from the 21" wheels. I see many posts about the 21's looking better. That is a matter of opinion, and I prefer the look of the 19's. I'm sure you gain a little in the handling department with 21's, but IMO the main reason for getting 21" wheels is appearance. The real boost in handling would be with the P85D suspension upgrades. (I will add that I think the 19" turbines look nice though.)

Someone above did mention how calming driving Model S is. The effect is remarkable. Without all that noise and vibration, it is quite serene. I used to get annoyed by traffic, partly due to the waste of gasoline while idling. I could feel the waste rumbling away. That aspect of driving is completely removed. That along with the ability to stomp on it and quietly, stealthily move away from unsuspecting victims - if the desire should so occur.

I sincerely think that Model X may be for you though. Or perhaps one of each would suit all of your transportation needs.

 

[brkaus]

I think the no repair cost for a million miles statement is a bit iffy. My 120,000 mile Acura is needing a new power steering rack ($1.5k). I don't think the tesla steering rack is any different.

Of course the transmission is starting to go on the Acura and that shouldn't happen on the Tesla.

Wow, my car is worse then I thought. I should click "buy" now

 

[JMG]

I'm blown away by all the great remarks in this post. A lot of things I hadn't thought about before.

After jotting down some numbers, it really does come a lot closer ($$ wise) justifiably over a 6-8 year period vs my Tahoe. If I stay on my current track of probably buying another new SUV or Truck in 2-3 years at a cost of anywhere from $50k-$65k, then factor in $5-$6k of fuel a year for 6-8 years, then they are pretty close in overall cost of ownership. I haven't figured out specifically what type of financing I would do, but even if I did a $1,500 / mo payment, it would only be a net gain of $1,000 a month realized once you factor in the no more gas costs. Then factor in the cost of a new Tahoe or Truck a couple of years from now, and it's fairly close.

I still have a few issues I have to come to grips with aside from the financial aspect. The "image" thing is just something I'll have to learn to deal with. We built a pretty spectacular swimming pool and we're still going through that process as well. Kind of funny, but when we were going through that decision making process, we feared the "rich folk" tag that would probably come with it and we countered that arguement in our heads with, "Well, it's not like we flaunt our wealth. I mean, we don't drive fancy cars or anything." Well there goes that logic :biggrin:

Also some other issues I'm still reading/researching about:

1) The #1 issue it seems from most "newbies", range anxiety. I even ran my own Tahoe out of gas last year coming back from Dallas with my mother in the car. 25 miles away from dropping her off at her vehicle (next to a gas station) my estimated range was 45 miles, 20 mile cushion. A 1/4 mile from the exit ramp she died on me (the tahoe, not my mother..). An embarrassing walk up to the gas station to buy a tank of gas was all it took. In my Model S it would be a tow-truck call. If I have an unexpected long-distance trip (at work, family emergency somewhere, long distance customer need at the last minute, or just going to hang out with my brother for a weekend). All of these would require much different decision making process since I wouldn't be able to just hop into the nearest gas station. I know this subject is covered ad nauseam here, and there is plenty more I can read.

2) Service/warranty issues. I can't find a good black and white explanation of what is covered, who covers it, and how you get your vehicle to the service shop. I've read everything from "Tesla came to my house and dropped off a loaner and took mine away on a flatbed, no charge" to "$100 each time for them to come out" and not to mention on the warranty information publication it says for warranty service, the owner gets it to the Service "at their expense". Then there is Elon's blog post back in 2013 about the valet and warranty service "at no extra charge". Huh?? This is a big one to me because as a current GM owner, I'm literally 2 blocks away from where I bought this thing in case I ever had any trouble. I'm a 2 hour drive away from the nearest Tesla Service Center.

Still researching...still not getting any work done....

Thanks again, this thread has be unbelievably helpful.

 

[Rheazombi]

The Tesla would have to be a lot cheaper for the fuel savings to be meaningful. Even if you assume 20 mpg and $5 per gallon of fuel, 100,000 miles of driving only uses $25,000 of gas.

If you're the kind of person who drives a lot though, holy moley that adds up fast. Drive 200,000 miles, suddenly you've saved $50k, drive 300,000 - you've saved $75k, drive 400,000 you've saved $100k. Kinda crazy to think about.

Obviously it may take many years to reach such mileage so I like to think about it in terms of yearly savings instead. Someone who drives 15k miles/year saves $3,750/year. Someone who drives 30k miles/year saves $7,500/year, or the entire federal tax rebate on the car, every year.

Obviously, comparing it to a Kia that costs nothing is pointless, you'll never make up the savings in gas money. But compare it to a similarly premium $70k-100k sedan, and the gas savings ARE meaningful.

 

[donv]

You have to figure out if the range will work for you. I would go to EV Trip Planner and try out some of your trips, to see if the range works for you, and if there are charging options which make it work for you. The range doesn't work for everyone, unfortunately, although it does work for most people.

1) The #1 issue it seems from most "newbies", range anxiety. I even ran my own Tahoe out of gas last year coming back from Dallas with my mother in the car. 25 miles away from dropping her off at her vehicle (next to a gas station) my estimated range was 45 miles, 20 mile cushion. A 1/4 mile from the exit ramp she died on me (the tahoe, not my mother..). An embarrassing walk up to the gas station to buy a tank of gas was all it took. In my Model S it would be a tow-truck call. If I have an unexpected long-distance trip (at work, family emergency somewhere, long distance customer need at the last minute, or just going to hang out with my brother for a weekend). All of these would require much different decision making process since I wouldn't be able to just hop into the nearest gas station. I know this subject is covered ad nauseam here, and there is plenty more I can read.

The warranty is just like any other car. Tesla is particularly good about picking up and dropping off the car (at least in my area), and if you are a certain distance from a service center, they will in some cases send someone out to work on the car at your home. I think you will find that their service is excellent-- but it is not the same as having a dealer two blocks away.

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about the service/warranty aspect. The cars have been very reliable, service needs are generally minimal, and Tesla has shown themselves to have excellent service. I'd tell you how great my experiences have been, yet in 18 months of ownership I've only dealt with them once or twice.

2) Service/warranty issues. I can't find a good black and white explanation of what is covered, who covers it, and how you get your vehicle to the service shop. I've read everything from "Tesla came to my house and dropped off a loaner and took mine away on a flatbed, no charge" to "$100 each time for them to come out" and not to mention on the warranty information publication it says for warranty service, the owner gets it to the Service "at their expense". Then there is Elon's blog post back in 2013 about the valet and warranty service "at no extra charge". Huh?? This is a big one to me because as a current GM owner, I'm literally 2 blocks away from where I bought this thing in case I ever had any trouble. I'm a 2 hour drive away from the nearest Tesla Service Center.

Still researching...still not getting any work done....

Thanks again, this thread has be unbelievably helpful.

 

[Brass Guy]

That's unfortunate about running out of gas in the Tahoe. My last car had a remaining miles left estimate too, but always read zero when I knew I had well over 100 miles left.
Model S will not tell you that you have 45 miles left if you have less than 25, so Model S would not have put you in that situation. You would intentionally start with more, or you will know ahead of time you will need to add some energy. Its range estimation may be off by some factor depending on driving style and conditions, but it is very consistent and will never jump to zero all of a sudden.

The last time I read about Tesla's valet service, I think it said it was included within a 50 mile radius of a service center. The best thing for you to do is just call a service center. I'm sure they'll talk to you about what's standard, and what your options would be. Roadside assistance is included during the warranty period, so that should supply a tow to the service center (and a loaner) if your car is inoperable. If you need service but can drive it, you may have to schedule a service appointment and drive there and pick up a loaner. Call and ask though.

When considering how much you'll save on gasoline, don't forget to add the cost of electricity. Too many posts are neglecting that. Check out your rates, and find out if you have Time Of Use plans, or special EV charging rates. My last car got about 28mpg, and would cost me $.035/mile at today's local station price of $1.999/gal, and my $.235 electric rate (all included) is costing me $.078/mile in my Model S. (Estimating 3 mi/kWh, but it's probably worse with charging inefficiencies.) I'm sure your electric rates are lower than mine though.

 

[eepic]

1) The #1 issue it seems from most "newbies", range anxiety. I even ran my own Tahoe out of gas last year coming back from Dallas with my mother in the car. 25 miles away from dropping her off at her vehicle (next to a gas station) my estimated range was 45 miles, 20 mile cushion. A 1/4 mile from the exit ramp she died on me (the tahoe, not my mother..). An embarrassing walk up to the gas station to buy a tank of gas was all it took. In my Model S it would be a tow-truck call. If I have an unexpected long-distance trip (at work, family emergency somewhere, long distance customer need at the last minute, or just going to hang out with my brother for a weekend). All of these would require much different decision making process since I wouldn't be able to just hop into the nearest gas station. I know this subject is covered ad nauseam here, and there is plenty more I can read.

I think this is one legitimate tradeoff with the Model S given the current infrastructure - there are certain use cases where it is certainly more convenient with an ICE car if you need to drive distance at a whim. Logically though, you save 10-20 minutes per week not having to drive to a gas station to fill up and that offsets the possibility of being inconvenienced once every couple months of charging at a whim.

Of course, there are also lots of ways to mitigate this - plugshare.com has a map of all sorts of destination chargers you can charge up at. You could also bring a connector and plug into your brother's laundry outlet when you visit. And remember the charging infrastructure is advancing rapidly these days, so it will only get better.

At the end of the day most owners agree the benefits far outweigh the tradeoffs, and that opinion is shared by all the glowing reviews and accolades the Model S has received.

 

[CHG-ON]

My last comment to add to all these great posts...

I am not rich at all. It was a total stretch to buy my lovely girl. But I am already seeing monthly savings. No, I probably will not get some great payoff in the end from owning this amazing piece of engineering. But the pure enjoyment I get, the zero cost of operating her and the fact that I am supporting a mission to get us off of planet killing carbon makes it all completely worthwhile. It's so much more than just a fancy, expensive car. It's where we need to be going if we want to have a world worth living in for our kids and grandkids.

And it's TOTALLY COOL!!!

 

[Tuan]

Agreed with CHG-ON. My main excuse is I'm "going green." Why not buy the Leaf? Tesla's supercharger network allows me to take it out of town.

 

[Larry]

I'm in with all the great comments as well. One thing I don't think is emphasized enough for the S is how SAFE it is. The only fatalities being the stolen car and the drive off the 400 foot cliff(please correct me if there are others). That was the closer for me along with all the other incredible features.

 

[Half Dollar Bill]

Agree that evtripplanner and Plugshare are great resources that virtually eliminate range anxiety. EVtripplanner takes me back to the days of the AAA triptik and planning your route in advance, but once you know the route is feasible, you're off without a worry. We recently had our first MS driver use our charger after finding us on Plugshare because he was in a pinch getting home. It felt great to help out and we had a great conversation about shared experiences while he was charging.

This is a great thread and I honestly can't say what's more fun - the community trying to talk you into a purchase or keeping you from work.

 

[Kbsilver]

I'm blown away by all the great remarks in this post. ....
The #1 issue it seems from most "newbies", range anxiety. I even ran my own Tahoe out of gas last year

Even for those of us unable to make the leap, discussing on these boards is still very enjoyable, there is a lot to be learned, and common sense does prevail.

About running out of electrons, I read that AAA was considering having truck mounted generators available in some markets for BEVs. Not sure if this has or will come to pass but would certainly be a great alternative to getting flat bedded. Just like running out of gas it would likely be just enough charge to reach a reasonable charging location.

For many of us the Gen 3 is a more perfect fit (in the garage and the wallet). I say in the garage because for me with standard single garage doors, the clearance from the garage door frame to the Model S mirrors is under 6" on each side. However I have a mirror mounted high on the wall angled so you can see yourself drive in. I put it there 25 years ago when we owned a Windstar minivan which was also pretty wide.

Like many, decisions, decisions. We always have had one larger and one smaller car, with the ultimate plan one will be BEV, one ICE. The larger car is now 15 years old and 155K miles. Looks like either a S in the near future with a ICE replacement for the smaller car later, or a BMW 335GT soon and a Tesla Gen 3 when it comes out.

 

[stevezzzz]

I'm bookmarking this thread to sent to people who ask me about owning a Model S: so many good points made by both owners and prospective owners alike! The same general topic has come up over the years many times, but this thread has, for whatever reason, produced a distillation of the TMC community's thoughts and feelings in a really great way.

 

[LoL Rick]

I've only briefly skimmed the thread, so a lot of this is probably repeats of previous thoughts. Anyway, here are a few responses to FAQs:

Why did you buy such an expensive car? (pick one or more)
1. It's green - no matter how you argue it, unless you're charging from a gas powered generator in the driveway, this thing pollutes less than an ICE. The only argument is how much less.
2. I believe in the electric car revolution, and part of the purchase price goes to finance it.
3. I love the technology.
4. Running costs are very low - part of my fuel bill is simply front loaded into the purchase so TCO is the same as a Tahoe for me.
5. It's efficient. Sitting in traffic (maybe you don't, but I do!) doesn't waste energy or fuel with an idling engine doing nothing but making heat.
6. My wife (or husband) likes it. Umm, get their buy-in first for this one!

How much did you spend?
"They start at around 63K after the tax credit. I added a few extras." This answer hasworked for me every single time. If anybody really wants to know, they can go to the web site and research the prices and options.

Which color is the least flashy?
White or silver. My silver car doesn't get nearly the gawks as the dark colors.

Why a car and not a truck?
Show them the space. Once you get to the frunk, they are totally blown away.

I've got more, but have to run. Remote monitoring shows my partner is on the way home in our Tesla, and I'm supposed to be doing something else other than forums! :redface:

 

[sandpiper]

If you're the kind of person who drives a lot though, holy moley that adds up fast. Drive 200,000 miles, suddenly you've saved $50k, drive 300,000 - you've saved $75k, drive 400,000 you've saved $100k. Kinda crazy to think about.

Obviously it may take many years to reach such mileage so I like to think about it in terms of yearly savings instead. Someone who drives 15k miles/year saves $3,750/year. Someone who drives 30k miles/year saves $7,500/year, or the entire federal tax rebate on the car, every year.

Obviously, comparing it to a Kia that costs nothing is pointless, you'll never make up the savings in gas money. But compare it to a similarly premium $70k-100k sedan, and the gas savings ARE meaningful.

Very very few people will keep these cars for 200k miles. And if you're comparing to another 100k sedan then any economic arguments are rather beside the point, don't you think? . That smacks a little of two .01%ers debating the fuel mileage in yachts!

 

[gavine]

. My wife wanted to take my Model S because she said that her car was almost out of gas and she would have to stop to refuel before her morning appointment. "Your car is always full every morning".

Sounds like an excuse just to drive the car.

- - - Updated - - -

I think the no repair cost for a million miles statement is a bit iffy. My 120,000 mile Acura is needing a new power steering rack ($1.5k). I don't think the tesla steering rack is any different.

The steering rack might be the same, but the job would likely be much simpler. Steering rack replacement on an ICE is a HUGE job. On the Model S, there's no engine in the way and it probably can be done from above. Also no hydraulic fluid mess.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

Another thing to consider as a counter to the "flashy luxury car" perception concern - it's hard to find a more American car than the Model S.

It is made in the USA by an American company using American workers. It's not just another one of those "darn foreigner luxury cars."

 

[Rheazombi]

Very very few people will keep these cars for 200k miles. And if you're comparing to another 100k sedan then any economic arguments are rather beside the point, don't you think? . That smacks a little of two .01%ers debating the fuel mileage in yachts!

Disagree. Spending money is not the same as WASTING money. For 70k-100k you get an amazing high tech EV. As opposed to throwing money down the drain for a consumable you will never see a return on or get joy out of. You have to compare cars from the same class because someone who would have bought a premium sedan with their hard-earned money anyway, now has the option of not wasting an amount of money equal to their kid's college tuition in fuel as well.

As far as 200k mileage, there are already some Model S owners who have driven around 100k miles and I don't think they're selling their cars tomorrow. If you drive 5,000 miles a year, the savings aren't noticeable, but there are people out there who drive A LOT, many in in gas guzzling SUVs and those people would definitely see a benefit over time.

It's certainly not the only thing that makes the car great, but it's more of a thing most non-EV drivers don't think about and should, and can make them realize the car is not as expensive as they thought and if they do some simple math they can decide for themselves if EVs make more sense financially than their current car.

 

[AB4EJ]

On the topic of keeping a nice car for many years - different cultures feel differently about this. I worked for Mercedes for many years, and one of the things we recognized was this - Germans will very often order a car that they have to wait a year for, but then plan to keep it for the rest of their lives (you can do this with many high-end cars like a Mercedes, as long as you stay out of wrecks). This is unusual in the US, where most customers (for new vehicles) tend to buy off the lot, and plan to keep the car for several years (not decades).

Are Tesla owners likely to keep their cars for decades? The brand is too new to measure this; we have to wait to see if the nice aluminum structure will develop fatigue cracks over time (like an airframe), rendering it unsafe for road use; and what will it cost to replace a drive motor or battery pack 15 years from now? (To say nothing of the myriad fancy features, all waiting to fail at some point).

Therefore, I don't see that an economic justification for the car is really there. However, a lot of the motivation to buy a particular car is driven by emotional factors - the Tesla is an easy car to fall in love with. It's just so cool, so powerful, so attractive, so convenient to charge at home - the economic argument is a rationalization. Just face, it you love the car. Buy it if you can work out the finances. I plan to, when my LEAF lease runs out. But I also suspect that, down the road, this car will be expensive to maintain after warranty (like the Mercedes, the Porsche, etc.) runs out. And I suspect that I will feel like it is worth it (like I do with these other high-end cars).

 

[JMG]

I'm glad this thread has been so successful.

I've been inhaling Model S information practically non stop, its starting to become a problem I think.

Spoke with the wife this morning and she's on board. Did some emailing back and forth with my financial advisor, he's cool with it. So now its just getting comfortable with the idea of it and looking into interest rates.

Man, that didn't take long.........what 48 hrs?