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This is not a rant , this is a friendly note to future Norwegian Tesla owners.

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To begin with I really feel for you that you clearly got a lemon car. Problem is actually that you initiated your Tesla experience with a quite old model. Not saying that it should not be a good one anyhow, but between the P85+ and a P100D or 100D it is really a massive difference.

Another aspect is that you live in Norway where the sales of Tesla exploded and the support and service center clearly lack behind. Neither this is something good, but in the market where I live the experience with Tesla service is frankly the opposite.

I've owned nothing but German cars (because I'm german, haha). Last car was a fully loaded 2016 Porsche Cayenne with full leather and all the bells and whistles. I've also owned many Audis and BMW throughout the years. Also during my Tesla ownership tested out all the new cars that my local companies produced. Everything from the new Porsche Panamera 4 E-hybrid to the Merceds E-class and everything in between. I frankly just don't agree with your rather exaggerated view, but we all prefer different and have differnt opinions about stuff. I mean, after my drive with the new Panamera I couldn't wait to get back into my Model S again.

My experience might be better off since I own a 2017 model with all the extras. I had a few perks initially but Service center fixed everything very quick and the car has been epic after that.

Hope that you don't loose all faith in Tesla. If you have had one of the latest builds of a P100D in your drive way with all the extras I think you might have been in for a better experience. That in combination with the flooded Tesla market in Norway is probably your answer.
 
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I did not know that this was possible but in 2015 4G was well established in the whole world (even africa...) and yet Tesla decided to go not even for LTE but for 3G.... great marketing. Lets choose last years tech so we can sell this years tech for a premium....

You don't have a 2015 if you have a P85+. Tesla didn't make any in 2015 - zero. It was an old, retired, deprecated technology in 2015.
 
Yeah that is great future tactics. When BMW starts selling 100% EVs your cars value will depreciate about 30% overnight because Tesla doesn't look 6 months ahead of their nose. Like i said , i love their innovation but their quality is all American. And that says alot unfortunately.
I had a 100% electric BMW. It lost 50% of its value in 24 months. Fortunately, I understand that BMWs are the Ultimate Leasing Machine.
 
Read what I actually wrote. I was specifically talking about touch screens WITH web browsers. That was the point that I was making: almost no cars have web browsers, because all things considered they are a pretty low priority feature for vehicles.

I know that lots of cars have touch screens. No other car has a 17 inch one however (that's got to be one of my favourite features of the car).



It is definitely an option. It has been discussed at length on this forum (a search for "LTE upgrade") has 2000 hits.

View attachment 279668

Also, I'm not sure it costs $2000 USD to upgrade (in multiple other threads it says $500 USD) although from what I read in those other threads I'm also not sure there is actually a huge performance gain in real life.

Should I Upgrade to LTE?

LTE upgrade

Thanks for the input. If the upgrade is for a true 4G LTE and not an HSPA+ (3GPP) then it might be worth it.

As i said i do not see the point with the browser in the car... i do not really care for it.

As for the 17'' yeah it is a nice accessory but some times i miss some hardwired buttons to be honest.
 
You don't have a 2015 if you have a P85+. Tesla didn't make any in 2015 - zero. It was an old, retired, deprecated technology in 2015.

Yeah that is true, that car was registered in december 2014. So now a 3 year old model. Some might say as good as a wooden wheel wagon.... this is what apple is getting us used to. Anything older than 12 months is not even worth talking about. Justifies also car producers to play their own micro transaction and upgrade game and all the fanboys and girls to follow to the play of their flute. I just have to remind you that an M4 from the same period is the same as today. Basically because it had very little flaws to consider it as deprecated technology 2 years after.... If you agree with this way of thinking then it is another point i should add on my ranting.
 
I had a 100% electric BMW. It lost 50% of its value in 24 months. Fortunately, I understand that BMWs are the Ultimate Leasing Machine.

There are Model S here in Norway with a 30% price drop over the first year. What is your point? Every expensive car has a huge loss the first 1-2 years. That is across all the industry. What i am trying to say is that the only card Tesla has now is that they don't have any competition so they can sell whatever they like. That privilege will be obliterated with their current state of standard, as soon as any European car company turns their heads to 100% EVs.

Look let me be honest, i do not like that , cause it means my car will also depreciate in value but it is the hard truth. And i just can't see how everyone says how awesome the Tesla quality is when it clearly isn't comparing to the competition.

Again i am not talking about ICE vs EV engine. I am talking about trimming, fitting, interior design, functionality and material quality. Take ICE vs EV out of the equality and you might see my point.
 
There are Model S here in Norway with a 30% price drop over the first year. What is your point? Every expensive car has a huge loss the first 1-2 years. That is across all the industry. What i am trying to say is that the only card Tesla has now is that they don't have any competition so they can sell whatever they like. That privilege will be obliterated with their current state of standard, as soon as any European car company turns their heads to 100% EVs.

Look let me be honest, i do not like that , cause it means my car will also depreciate in value but it is the hard truth. And i just can't see how everyone says how awesome the Tesla quality is when it clearly isn't comparing to the competition.

Again i am not talking about ICE vs EV engine. I am talking about trimming, fitting, interior design, functionality and material quality. Take ICE vs EV out of the equality and you might see my point.

Difficult to grasp the purpose of your posts. To some extent it doesn't really feel like you even own a Tesla. More of an M4 owner who want to have some fun on a Tesla forum...

And if you really do own a Tesla I would advice you to get rid of it asap before it is getting totally worthless. Get into a BMW M4 and I'm sure the BMW M4 holds it's value extremely well the years to come :p
 
I am not sure what kind of winter you are driving in. Minnesota is probably as cold as Norway, if not worse. While there is clear decrease in range with cold temperatures, I get ~180-200 miles (280-320 km) on a P85D. An 85 should have similar range, an 85D should be better. And your compatriot Bjorn Nyland has done countless YouTube videos on driving in Norway, all of them including energy usage. I never had the impression he had experienced the levels you are talking about. The problem is that when you exaggerate, everything else becomes less credible too.

How to i exaggerate when these are the numbers i get on the car? Maybe it is you guys that exaggerate?
P85 at 90% 340km
P85 at 10% 45km
That was when ambient temperature is +15oC.
With heating on normal (not eco), 19oC in the cabin and rough winter weather with wind and snow and below -5oC temp the consumption goes roughly 40% up. (Measured directly on W/h meter and on total consumption/charging frequency).
I am not trying to trash Tesla in that aspect. I know that battery life is battery life. And i know that for the moment all EV manufacturers are trying to get away with it due to regulations of extremely loose interpretation of what range is. It just pisses me off that the manufacturer comes with some fantastic numbers to lure people in. An ICE car would tell you average 5,4l/km and with aggressive driving i might have gotten 5,9l/km. But that is 10% not 250km from 500km range! That is almost 50%!!!
In practice a 3 year old P85 in cold weather climate cannot pull anything more than a PRACTICAL 200 to 250km. In a good winter day. In a bad winter day forget about it.
I don't listen to Nyland. He runs a show for Tesla and he is driving his battery to 0%. I am not crazy. I follow up Teslas recommendations after all to not charge more than 90 or discharge more than 10%.
That is what i am explaining then : In EVERY DAY practical usage, the effective driving in harsh conditions is no more than 200-250 km. Forget the 'in the labs vacuum' 500+km ranges.
After all my post is for Nordic climates not for California.
 
Difficult to grasp the purpose of your posts. To some extent it doesn't really feel like you even own a Tesla. More of an M4 owner who want to have some fun on a Tesla forum...

And if you really do own a Tesla I would advice you to get rid of it asap before it is getting totally worthless. Get into a BMW M4 and I'm sure the BMW M4 holds it's value extremely well the years to come :p

I do own a Tesla and i do consider an M4 tbh ....

I really do want to love the Tesla but their service really gave me a punch in the ... wheels.

If it wasn't for that , even for all the things that i might seem to 'complain' i would still be a hardcore Tesla fan and owner.

But for me, customer service is really important because i am a mechanical engineer and i do understand that machines fail, i just do not respect companies where you fork out 90k USD and they treat you like garbage.
 
An ICE car would tell you average 5,4l/km and with aggressive driving i might have gotten 5,9l/km. But that is 10% not 250km from 500km range! That is almost 50%!!!.

Are you for real? Driving aggressive in an ICE and get 5.9l/100km compared to claimed 5.4l/100km?
My previous Porsche Cayenne was speced from Porsche to run on 9,0l/100km vs my average real time consumption on 15.0l/100km. With a heavy foot easily 25.0l/100km.
 
Yeah that is true, that car was registered in december 2014. So now a 3 year old model. Some might say as good as a wooden wheel wagon.... this is what apple is getting us used to. Anything older than 12 months is not even worth talking about. Justifies also car producers to play their own micro transaction and upgrade game and all the fanboys and girls to follow to the play of their flute. I just have to remind you that an M4 from the same period is the same as today. Basically because it had very little flaws to consider it as deprecated technology 2 years after.... If you agree with this way of thinking then it is another point i should add on my ranting.

That brings up an interesting point, does your P85+ have autopilot? There were only 300 P85+ cars that were made after AP hardware was released, it was cancelled at the same time so only a handful made it out. You should register your car with the 300, it's a unicorn and worth more as people do look for RWD P models with the + suspension and AP, and there aren't many available. Your car would have been manufactured in November 2014 if it was the last P85+ ever produced. This is also why you have 3G radio; you can upgrade to LTE but it wasn't available on the older cars like ours, the first LTE hardware was delivered in June 2015.

You're complainin g about Tesla lacking hardware on all cars when your car was built - it had what it had, nobody was surprised about that. What's bad is 3 year old cars like ours are now being excluded from software updates for no reason - that's closer to Apple's philosophy of forced obsolescence than simply newer hardware being released which is what every manufacturer in every industry does.

He's probably right about his cold range numbers. I have a lead foot too, and my range drops a lot in Chicago winters. It's not impossible that wallaby has an even more heavy foot and keeps the staggers on in snow. The P85+ is the least efficient Model S ever made, and it doesn't get better when you drive it inefficiently. I have a similar issue in my Porsche as well, though AWD helps I still get half the MPG in cold that I do in summer. Cold impacts range, but driver impacts it more.
 
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When someone starts with a disclaimer (I don’t mean to offend or this is not a rant), one can be sure it’s exactly that which is being claimed it’s not. :rolleyes:

I’m sorry you’re unhappy with your purchase. Fortunately there are literally dozens of other motor vehicle options available for purchase. Might I suggest one of those people killers made by Audi.

Well the title was more of a sarcastic comment to my post. Any post that exceeds 4 pages should be automatically considered as ranting ;)

Audi i had and their customer service is almost as bad as Teslas, been happy with BMW and with Merc tbh. But truth is that it is all relative.

My main issue is that i have only 2 options in Norway (2 workshops in the wider area) and i havent had a very good experience with the one. And i didn't even do anything to justify being treated like garbage. My back half shaft was actually loose and they try to pass it as a non important issue that i could wait 10+ weeks to fix....

And in all honesty i am quite polite in general. Last time i was at that same workshop i heard another customer screaming and yelling to them for having him waiting for months for a small issue he had...

I love new tech. And just for what Tesla has done to break through the old fashioned dirty oil world, i salute them. But they have a long way to go to be called a luxury vehicle producer. For now we pay for innovation. And i would be totally fine with the bad quality fitting and materials if at least the service was polite and honest. But with this behavior no....
 
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I do own a Tesla and i do consider an M4 tbh ....

I really do want to love the Tesla but their service really gave me a punch in the ... wheels.

If it wasn't for that , even for all the things that i might seem to 'complain' i would still be a hardcore Tesla fan and owner.

But for me, customer service is really important because i am a mechanical engineer and i do understand that machines fail, i just do not respect companies where you fork out 90k USD and they treat you like garbage.

An M4 in Norway must be double the price of the Tesla, if not higher?
Anyway... I've driven the M4 several times and really can't see the comparison to start with. Two quite different types of cars so cross shopping an M4 vs an older P85+ is the first I heard of :)

Fully agree that service is an important factor in car ownership, and specially if you experience problems. Norway seems to be a problematic market for servicing a Tesla due to the massive sales of Teslas lately. I have as I wrote before an extremely good experience of Tesla service and rate it better than what I have previously experience from other brands. So it really does depend on where you live I assume and if you're lucky/unlucky with your local service organization independent of brand.
 
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Are you for real? Driving aggressive in an ICE and get 5.9l/100km compared to claimed 5.4l/100km?
My previous Porsche Cayenne was speced from Porsche to run on 9,0l/100km vs my average real time consumption on 15.0l/100km. With a heavy foot easily 25.0l/100km.
Yeap, very for real. If i drive the same aggressive as i drove my BMW then it would go from catalogue 7,5l/km to 10,5l/km but the tesla in the same driving style would go to way under 200km from 500. Same 300HP diesel BMW would go from 5,4 to 5.9l/km. No joke. Do not try to justify it. I know that the tesla is 500hp but that doesnt mean anything in the point i am trying to make. I am just trying to point out that the 500/550km range markup they give is not REAL for nordic climates. Nothing more.
 
An M4 in Norway must be double the price of the Tesla, if not higher?
Anyway... I've driven the M4 several times and really can't see the comparison to start with. Two quite different types of cars so cross shopping an M4 vs an older P85+ is the first I heard of :)

Fully agree that service is an important factor in car ownership, and specially if you experience problems. Norway seems to be a problematic market for servicing a Tesla due to the massive sales of Teslas lately. I have as I wrote before an extremely good experience of Tesla service and rate it better than what I have previously experience from other brands. So it really does depend on where you live I assume and if you're lucky/unlucky with your local service organization independent of brand.

Yeah that is true. A P85+ will go for roughly 60k Euros while an M4 probably for 100k in Norway. That is only due to the dirty heavy taxation on the ICE engines. (Basically EVs in Norway are tax free- completely).
But at this point even my old 2013 E92 M3 looks tempting. And again only for the customer support issues.
 
To begin with I really feel for you that you clearly got a lemon car. Problem is actually that you initiated your Tesla experience with a quite old model. Not saying that it should not be a good one anyhow, but between the P85+ and a P100D or 100D it is really a massive difference.

Another aspect is that you live in Norway where the sales of Tesla exploded and the support and service center clearly lack behind. Neither this is something good, but in the market where I live the experience with Tesla service is frankly the opposite.

I've owned nothing but German cars (because I'm german, haha). Last car was a fully loaded 2016 Porsche Cayenne with full leather and all the bells and whistles. I've also owned many Audis and BMW throughout the years. Also during my Tesla ownership tested out all the new cars that my local companies produced. Everything from the new Porsche Panamera 4 E-hybrid to the Merceds E-class and everything in between. I frankly just don't agree with your rather exaggerated view, but we all prefer different and have differnt opinions about stuff. I mean, after my drive with the new Panamera I couldn't wait to get back into my Model S again.

My experience might be better off since I own a 2017 model with all the extras. I had a few perks initially but Service center fixed everything very quick and the car has been epic after that.

Hope that you don't loose all faith in Tesla. If you have had one of the latest builds of a P100D in your drive way with all the extras I think you might have been in for a better experience. That in combination with the flooded Tesla market in Norway is probably your answer.

Maybe so, but i think that any 3 year old premium car with valid warranty and with serious issues as a loose half shaft should get a priority treatment. That is directly connected to customer service.

As i said before and i ll say it again. I do not hate the cars. I love what they are and what they represent. They are a point in our industrial history we will all remember. And honestly they are a lot of fun for people that like hi-tech.

If it wasn't for the customer support, i really wouldn't give a dime for all the mishaps i had even with this 'ancient' model until now. And my next car would be a Tesla again.

As i said i still hold a reservation for a M3. And i am still not shaken enough to cancel it. But if i do not see a new workshop in the area in 2018 i might as well...
 
A lot of things affect range. For one thing, you bought the highest energy consumption Model S in existence. 85/90/100-versions are the heaviest, and D-versions are more efficient. P adds even more consumption, especially without the D. (Maybe you even use 21 inch tires?) My impression is they've also improved various losses over the years. Your P85+ is basically the same P85 that was released in 2012, with a sportier suspension and some parking sensors, electrically folding mirrors and stuff.

Also, an older car will have some degradation, there's no way to get around that. The 85 kWh packs had 77 kWh available when new, and it would be normal for that to be 72 kWh now. If you don't charge to more than 90% and never below 10%, and you have a 4 kWh buffer below zero (the amount of buffer varies by how correct the BMS is calibrated, and will vary), the utilized capacity may be a mere 54.4 kWh. If you then use 220 Wh/km, which isn't particularly high, your effective range would be 247 km

But usually, this range will be more than sufficient. You can still get between the superchargers without difficulty. (And with buffers on top of buffers, so very low risk of running out of energy.)
 
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That brings up an interesting point, does your P85+ have autopilot? There were only 300 P85+ cars that were made after AP hardware was released, it was cancelled at the same time so only a handful made it out. You should register your car with the 300, it's a unicorn and worth more as people do look for RWD P models with the + suspension and AP, and there aren't many available. Your car would have been manufactured in November 2014 if it was the last P85+ ever produced. This is also why you have 3G radio; you can upgrade to LTE but it wasn't available on the older cars like ours, the first LTE hardware was delivered in June 2015.

You're complainin g about Tesla lacking hardware on all cars when your car was built - it had what it had, nobody was surprised about that. What's bad is 3 year old cars like ours are now being excluded from software updates for no reason - that's closer to Apple's philosophy of forced obsolescence than simply newer hardware being released which is what every manufacturer in every industry does.

He's probably right about his cold range numbers. I have a lead foot too, and my range drops a lot in Chicago winters. It's not impossible that wallaby has an even more heavy foot and keeps the staggers on in snow. The P85+ is the least efficient Model S ever made, and it doesn't get better when you drive it inefficiently. I have a similar issue in my Porsche as well, though AWD helps I still get half the MPG in cold that I do in summer. Cold impacts range, but driver impacts it more.

Well i might as well check it then and put my unicorn in a museum ;) hehe

Well that is mainly what i am complaining about. It is not the fact that the car does not have the hardware but that Tesla is more and more like Apple. I am 99% sure that when the warranty expires in 2 years that car will get a disclaimer update : 'Good luck on the road and fare well from all of us at Tesla. May the old updates be in your favor'
And i know that people will say that other cars do not have OTA updates so i should shut up but other cars have other engineering values that compensate for the lack of OTAs. Like we all know, part of the Tesla premium goes to gadgetry and hi-tech stuff that appeal also to apple users....

Yeah driver is the biggest factor i agree. But comparing the 'true' range on EVs is not as close to reality as it is on ICE. And for EVs the cold weather impact is much more severe than on ICEs. That's really all my point.
 
I'm not quite sure I understand what was your expectation when buying this car. You chose to buy a high performance car from a manufacturer that's been around for about 5 years (arguably Roadster doesn't count), and now you are complaining that their fit and finish, their supply chain and their service is not the same as other manufacturers that's been around for 100 years. Expertise takes time. You bought a computer that happens to have wheels, that beats performance of pretty much anything on the road currently, and you are comparing it to cars that's been in development for 20+ years and still have some of the worst UX for their entertainment systems (I own Audi, rented for long periods of time BMW and Mercedes, all of their UX is so terrible, I'd rather have a Nissan infotainment system). You really should do more research and adjust your expectation based on what you are buying into.
And I live in MA, where winters are not quite as cold as Norway, but I also don't own S85+ (75D) and my range is affected by cold weather, but nowhere near what you are describing. I might loose 20-30 miles on a full charge, but not much more then that, again, something that better research prior to buying a car would tell you.
Tesla does have a bunch of problems, but for a brand new manufacturer they are completely expected and should not be a surprise to anyone.