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This is not a rant , this is a friendly note to future Norwegian Tesla owners.

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A lot of things affect range. For one thing, you bought the highest energy consumption Model S in existence. 85/90/100-versions are the heaviest, and D-versions are more efficient. P adds even more consumption, especially without the D. (Maybe you even use 21 inch tires?) My impression is they've also improved various losses over the years. Your P85+ is basically the same P85 that was released in 2012, with a sportier suspension and some parking sensors, electrically folding mirrors and stuff.

Also, an older car will have some degradation, there's no way to get around that. The 85 kWh packs had 77 kWh available when new, and it would be normal for that to be 72 kWh now. If you don't charge to more than 90% and never below 10%, and you have a 4 kWh buffer below zero (the amount of buffer varies by how correct the BMS is calibrated, and will vary), the utilized capacity may be a mere 54.4 kWh. If you then use 220 Wh/km, which isn't particularly high, your effective range would be 247 km

But usually, this range will be more than sufficient. You can still get between the superchargers without difficulty. (And with buffers on top of buffers, so very low risk of running out of energy.)

I do not have any issues with the range really. And i have the largest supercharger station in Europe very close to me.
I was merely pointing out that people in Nordic climates should forget the 500+km range mark up they get promised at the dealer.
Realistic as you say is more like 247km for 4-5 months every year..
Thanks for the analytical post. Very enlightening on the properties of my car :)
 
If your forum post is to be taken at face value, all your issues have been posted ad nauseam over the past few years.

The main reason Tesla is so popular in Norway is that it has tremendous tax advantages there. People buy it because it is so much less expensive than the heavily taxed European offerings.

As you mentioned, it is a fantastic car. The all electric drive works fantastic on snow covered roads, with appropriate tires of course.

Perhaps some of the items are on you. You purchased a used vehicle, perhaps without getting it checked out by a knowledgeable mechanic familiar with Tesla. Maybe the idea was that you understood from the original owner that it had some issues, and that since it is under warranty, Tesla service would be happy to fix all the issues, at no cost of course. Then when you needed to take it in, you began to complain that it was so far away and that you would need to take time off work to get it done. Sorry, but that is on you. You understood all these things when you decided to purchase this particular car.

You might have run into this issue no matter which used car you chose to purchase, if their service centers were a distance away from you.

Think your post might be helpful to other buyers who decide to purchase any car with deferred maintenance. It is not specific to Tesla.

Fit and finish was an issue first addressed by the Asians. Both American and European vehicles in the 70's had poor fitting body panels. The Germans were the first to address this by engineering a solid sounding thunk into their door closing mechanisms. They were no stronger or better than others, but certaintly gave a good feeling with that solid thunk. Later, soft closing electric doors became the hallmark of a luxury car. Still no stronger, but feeling good was the goal.

Early Tesla production was all about the electric driveline, and the environmental benefits of no emissions in crowded Urban areas. Light weight, but strong and safe body panels and underlying structure provided the safest structures ever in a sedan. Governmental testing showed that the advanced crumple zones made possible by not having a heavy cast iron engine, nor a on board tank of explosive gasoline offered a safer car. For many, this was more important that milimeter precise body panels.

The interiors are not up to the finest European standards. Insteady of shiney chrome and phony carbon fiber the interiors were more of a Swedish minimalist design. It takes a high tech approach with most all the myriad of dash board buttons taken over by a spectacular touch screen display.

The vehicles offer state of the art driver assist technology to take much of the druggery out of long distance driving. All those micro adjustments of steering, braking, and throttle are taken over by the computer on the highway. This system is still being developed, and the cars get better every month or so via OTA updates (free).

With the batteries mounted low in the chassis, the center of gravity is much lower than those German offerings. This offered significantly safer vehicles, along with good handling characteristics.

When Norway offered tremendous tax advantages to buyers, the Tesla became the most popular vehicle in Norway. This was unexpected by anybody, especially Tesla. They needed to ramp up expensive service centers, the very popular Supercharger free high speed charging network, providing free fuel for live to owners. This is a huge perk for Tesla owners as fuel is super expensive.

Issues such as lower range in the cold Norwegen Winters is an issue that need to be delt with. On the other hand having the ability to pre-heat your car while plugged in makes for a pretty nice perk. Normally an ICE vehicle needs to be started up and run for several minutes to get the motor up to operating temperatures and the interior comfortable. The Tesla's heat is instant on. No need to warm up. Starting out with warm batteries and a warm interior goes a long way in increasing the driving range on bitter mornings.

Now there is another dilemma. The Government has again changed their stand of tax benefits for Tesla owners. The sales have dropped and Tesla is stuck with all the expensive service stations and free charging. Difficult for Tesla to forcast their offerings when the costs for their customers is constantly changing.

Europeans used to depend on the hard working and economical Diesel engines to provide personal transportation, but when it was discovered that manufacturers rigged the emissions systems to pretend they were clean, but were really polluting much more than anyone suspected, that ship has sailed.

The world is come to the realization that burning fossil fuels to drive around is not conducive to a clean atmosphere. Many in crowed cities are dying early and suffering from ill health due to what is coming out of exhaust pipes. Electric transportation is the way of the future. Gas/Diesel is the way of the past.
 
I'm not quite sure I understand what was your expectation when buying this car. You chose to buy a high performance car from a manufacturer that's been around for about 5 years (arguably Roadster doesn't count), and now you are complaining that their fit and finish, their supply chain and their service is not the same as other manufacturers that's been around for 100 years. Expertise takes time. You bought a computer that happens to have wheels, that beats performance of pretty much anything on the road currently, and you are comparing it to cars that's been in development for 20+ years and still have some of the worst UX for their entertainment systems (I own Audi, rented for long periods of time BMW and Mercedes, all of their UX is so terrible, I'd rather have a Nissan infotainment system). You really should do more research and adjust your expectation based on what you are buying into.
And I live in MA, where winters are not quite as cold as Norway, but I also don't own S85+ (75D) and my range is affected by cold weather, but nowhere near what you are describing. I might loose 20-30 miles on a full charge, but not much more then that, again, something that better research prior to buying a car would tell you.
Tesla does have a bunch of problems, but for a brand new manufacturer they are completely expected and should not be a surprise to anyone.

I did quite an extensive research before i hopped on the Tesla train and i have had quite a lot of issues with the car that aren't mentioned anywhere in this thread.
I know exactly what i way buying into and i had no expectations for more quality or standard from a new company like Tesla.
If your read my other posts you will see what my real issue was and still is.
 
I have actually. For 100k+ high end cars (so not VW golf or Skoda Rapid...) the quality ratings are dominating in favor of the European ones. And the service (which is pretty much the largest part of my 'rant') it is hugely superior to the one of Tesla.

It is your own New York Times that reports on that... more reports are only a Google search away...

German Luxury Car Brands Dominate and Look to Extend Their Lead

And please do not let me start with the endless test drives and new car reviews you can find on hundreds of reputable magazines, tv shows and internet reports. Let alone the Auto Index statistics and other statistics that show the real difference between European and US cars.

Now because you post your own opinion that US automotive industry is better than EU it doesnt make it so. You have to document it. ;)
I guess you don't read the owner's surveys from Consumer Reports. Although I may not seek out CR for their own reviews on a specific car, they're reliability ratings are quite accurate. Using those, sorry, many of the more expensive German cars are not reliable.

With the attitude you have, one does wonder why you even 'bothered' with a Tesla...especially with an apparent anti-American bias.
 
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I do not have any issues with the range really. And i have the largest supercharger station in Europe very close to me.
I was merely pointing out that people in Nordic climates should forget the 500+km range mark up they get promised at the dealer.
Realistic as you say is more like 247km for 4-5 months every year..
Thanks for the analytical post. Very enlightening on the properties of my car :)
Another thing that could be mentioned is that the 500 km range is the NEDC test. In the US, the official (EPA) range for the P85 was 407 km. NEDC is being replaced by WLTP, because NEDC is completely useless. The official US range is attainable on a good day, when new. If you expected 500 km, you expected too much.

However, Tesla is probably the electric car maker that exaggerates the NEDC range by the least amount. Tesla usually adds a little to the EPA range, just to make their models look fairly okay when compared to the smaller range BEVs with grossly exaggerated ranges. Like the original Leaf, it was rated at 175 km, but in winter, you'd be lucky to get 80 km, and that's without any buffers and the heat off.
 
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If your forum post is to be taken at face value, all your issues have been posted ad nauseam over the past few years.

The main reason Tesla is so popular in Norway is that it has tremendous tax advantages there. People buy it because it is so much less expensive than the heavily taxed European offerings.

As you mentioned, it is a fantastic car. The all electric drive works fantastic on snow covered roads, with appropriate tires of course.

Perhaps some of the items are on you. You purchased a used vehicle, perhaps without getting it checked out by a knowledgeable mechanic familiar with Tesla. Maybe the idea was that you understood from the original owner that it had some issues, and that since it is under warranty, Tesla service would be happy to fix all the issues, at no cost of course. Then when you needed to take it in, you began to complain that it was so far away and that you would need to take time off work to get it done. Sorry, but that is on you. You understood all these things when you decided to purchase this particular car.

You might have run into this issue no matter which used car you chose to purchase, if their service centers were a distance away from you.

Think your post might be helpful to other buyers who decide to purchase any car with deferred maintenance. It is not specific to Tesla.

Fit and finish was an issue first addressed by the Asians. Both American and European vehicles in the 70's had poor fitting body panels. The Germans were the first to address this by engineering a solid sounding thunk into their door closing mechanisms. They were no stronger or better than others, but certaintly gave a good feeling with that solid thunk. Later, soft closing electric doors became the hallmark of a luxury car. Still no stronger, but feeling good was the goal.

Early Tesla production was all about the electric driveline, and the environmental benefits of no emissions in crowded Urban areas. Light weight, but strong and safe body panels and underlying structure provided the safest structures ever in a sedan. Governmental testing showed that the advanced crumple zones made possible by not having a heavy cast iron engine, nor a on board tank of explosive gasoline offered a safer car. For many, this was more important that milimeter precise body panels.

The interiors are not up to the finest European standards. Insteady of shiney chrome and phony carbon fiber the interiors were more of a Swedish minimalist design. It takes a high tech approach with most all the myriad of dash board buttons taken over by a spectacular touch screen display.

The vehicles offer state of the art driver assist technology to take much of the druggery out of long distance driving. All those micro adjustments of steering, braking, and throttle are taken over by the computer on the highway. This system is still being developed, and the cars get better every month or so via OTA updates (free).

With the batteries mounted low in the chassis, the center of gravity is much lower than those German offerings. This offered significantly safer vehicles, along with good handling characteristics.

When Norway offered tremendous tax advantages to buyers, the Tesla became the most popular vehicle in Norway. This was unexpected by anybody, especially Tesla. They needed to ramp up expensive service centers, the very popular Supercharger free high speed charging network, providing free fuel for live to owners. This is a huge perk for Tesla owners as fuel is super expensive.

Issues such as lower range in the cold Norwegen Winters is an issue that need to be delt with. On the other hand having the ability to pre-heat your car while plugged in makes for a pretty nice perk. Normally an ICE vehicle needs to be started up and run for several minutes to get the motor up to operating temperatures and the interior comfortable. The Tesla's heat is instant on. No need to warm up. Starting out with warm batteries and a warm interior goes a long way in increasing the driving range on bitter mornings.

Now there is another dilemma. The Government has again changed their stand of tax benefits for Tesla owners. The sales have dropped and Tesla is stuck with all the expensive service stations and free charging. Difficult for Tesla to forcast their offerings when the costs for their customers is constantly changing.

Europeans used to depend on the hard working and economical Diesel engines to provide personal transportation, but when it was discovered that manufacturers rigged the emissions systems to pretend they were clean, but were really polluting much more than anyone suspected, that ship has sailed.

The world is come to the realization that burning fossil fuels to drive around is not conducive to a clean atmosphere. Many in crowed cities are dying early and suffering from ill health due to what is coming out of exhaust pipes. Electric transportation is the way of the future. Gas/Diesel is the way of the past.

I bought the car mainly because of the performance / incentives / innovation - tech combo. None of those things really weighed more than the others as i could have as well bought an M3 or similar car for the same price and be happy for the quality and service.
But i took the chance because i wanted to invest to a part of tomorrow.
And i did, do not get me wrong. As i explained many times now i still love the car and its innovations.
And i do accept the fact that the service is far from where i live. But taking 5 days off from work to fix a simple 30minuttes issue is unacceptable service. I work partly at customer service at my company and i would be ashamed to treat a customer of my company like that. It would be blatantly disrespectful and reason for loosing that customer.
And that is why i do not respect or accept a company policy that allows bad service to paying customers especially for critical mechanical issues as loose half shafts.
As i said that issue was not observed on the test drive before the purchase. If it has, i wouldn't have bought the car.
Never the less, it is a warranty issue and a high risk issue and should have been handled faster than 10 weeks. Especially since it is a 30 minutes job.
And you explain so much about the door quality and sounds: Here are a few problems that i haven't mentioned and came with the first snow : The doors all stuck due to the frame less design. Most rubber seal stuck to the doors due to bad quality material (basically falling apart). The mirrors stuck in close position ( had to remove auto folding). The doors will sometime open by themselves due to ice on the handle sensors. But i UNDERSTAND these issues and i didn't even mention them here. I didn't even make a fuss at the service because i knew that a half shaft with a wheel falling off in mid high way is much more important than a folding mirror. So do not patronize me that it was my fault that i got a lemon. It is not my fault that Elon designs rockets and cars that can only be operated in a dry and warm climate only....
Sorry but Tesla didn't start yesterday. Soon will be on the market for 10 years. Time to shape up on their expectations and man up their service with more location and better quality service. They know what the Norwegian market is now. No more excuses.
 
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I guess you don't read the owner's surveys from Consumer Reports. Although I may not seek out CR for their own reviews on a specific car, they're reliability ratings are quite accurate. Using those, sorry, many of the more expensive German cars are not reliable.

With the attitude you have, one does wonder why you even 'bothered' with a Tesla...especially with an apparent anti-American bias.

AI and AE (which is some of the largest customer survey reports in Europe) brings BMW and Lexus from luxury cars to the first places for several years now.

I guess you did not read any other posts i made. To sum it up a little : I would never buy an American car. But i would buy a car from Elon.
 
In EVERY DAY practical usage, the effective driving in harsh conditions is no more than 200-250 km.

After all my post is for Nordic climates not for California.

We are making progress - we are up to 250 km;). I understand you are frustrated with the winter range decrease. But before you brag about the max range, here is for your peruse data from my first winter with the P85D (part of that before torque-sleep). The worst estimated range was 215 km with strong headwind at -17 oC and the best 325 km at a balmy +2 oC. And all these are without pre-heating - just wanted to see how far I can get if I need to go immediately. Some would say I have a little bit of a lead foot.

And by the way, in Minnesota we call -5 oC a nice warm winter day. As I am typing we have early spring: -10 oC at 1 pm.

winter consumption.JPG
 

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There are Model S here in Norway with a 30% price drop over the first year. What is your point? Every expensive car has a huge loss the first 1-2 years. That is across all the industry. What i am trying to say is that the only card Tesla has now is that they don't have any competition so they can sell whatever they like. That privilege will be obliterated with their current state of standard, as soon as any European car company turns their heads to 100% EVs.

Look let me be honest, i do not like that , cause it means my car will also depreciate in value but it is the hard truth. And i just can't see how everyone says how awesome the Tesla quality is when it clearly isn't comparing to the competition.

Again i am not talking about ICE vs EV engine. I am talking about trimming, fitting, interior design, functionality and material quality. Take ICE vs EV out of the equality and you might see my point.
You seem to forget about charging...
 
AI and AE (which is some of the largest customer survey reports in Europe) brings BMW and Lexus from luxury cars to the first places for several years now.

I guess you did not read any other posts i made. To sum it up a little : I would never buy an American car. But i would buy a car from Elon.
I would never argue Lexus' reliability, but I would argue BMW's. Believe the dataset you're more comfortable with.

The interesting thing about your bias, is that although Tesla's owner satisfaction is among the highest, if not the highest, in the automotive industry, the same cannot be said about Tesla's reliability. So yes, you can buy more reliable American cars (does that shock you?), but you won't get the same odds of owner satisfaction.
 
We are making progress - we are up to 250 km;). I understand you are frustrated with the winter range decrease. But before you brag about the max range, here is for your peruse data from my first winter with the P85D (part of that before torque-sleep). The worst estimated range was 215 km with strong headwind at -17 oC and the best 325 km at a balmy +2 oC. And all these are without pre-heating - just wanted to see how far I can get if I need to go immediately. Some would say I have a little bit of a lead foot.

And by the way, in Minnesota we call -5 oC a nice warm winter day. As I am typing we have early spring: -10 oC at 1 pm.

View attachment 279702

Nice data, it looks very familiar to what i have seen in my few months experience.

Maybe the new chill mode will help the lead foot syndrome.

If only i had the car back to test it. :D

Soon....
 
Weird, no improvement suggestions to customer service? ;)

I am really hoping Tesla gets their s*hit together, this kind of treatment is unacceptable and arises from understaffing service centers which arises from too many cars being serviced which arises from bad or non existing quality control (both at service center level and at factory production).

I'm considering renting a Tesla because I cannot stomach the servicing headache ;)
 
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I would never argue Lexus' reliability, but I would argue BMW's. Believe the dataset you're more comfortable with.

The interesting thing about your bias, is that although Tesla's owner satisfaction is among the highest, if not the highest, in the automotive industry, the same cannot be said about Tesla's reliability. So yes, you can buy more reliable American cars (does that shock you?), but you won't get the same odds of owner satisfaction.

Please, misunderstand me right: I would never buy an American car not because they are not reliable, but because i always thought the trimming and quality of fitting is not of my expectations. I am quite sure that America has a huge tradition with cars that have been rolling for many decades and i have nothing against it. I just prefer a tighter and finer finish. A better thump on the door like Uncle mentioned earlier :)
 
Weird, no improvement suggestions to customer service? ;)

I am really hoping Tesla gets their s*hit together, this kind of treatment is unacceptable and arises from understaffing service centers which arises from too many cars being serviced which arises from bad or non existing quality control (both at service center level and at factory production).

I'm considering renting a Tesla because I cannot stomach the servicing headache ;)

Good point, and pretty much what i have been trying to say.

Thank you for finding the words for me :)
 
Since this was a fender bender (not under service) Tesla Norway would not hear about it. I almost did not get a loaner with half my shaft hanging over...

So i currently have an Audi in the garage courtesy of my insurance policy for free rental coverage. :rolleyes:

Ah, that's a pity. Would have been a nice gesture by Tesla to lend you a P100D. If they had, maybe this thread wouldn't even existed ;)
 
Ah, that's a pity. Would have been a nice gesture by Tesla to lend you a P100D. If they had, maybe this thread wouldn't even existed ;)
Nah i am not unreasonable, it is not their responsibility that someone run me on the back. I do not expect it from them. But if they didn't make a fuss about the rental when i delivered the car 5 times to get the half shaft fixed, maybe this thread would not exist really...
They had the nerve to tell me that because it was an under 4 hour repair i wasn't liable for a loaner. But they could take me to the nearest bus station. ( 1,5 hours bus ride to work and 1,5 hours back.... ). Like i said i haven't explained all the craziness that i experienced the past few months in detail....

By the way. The half shaft being loose was most likely (as i was explained) due to the DU being changed the year before i got the car. Probably bad torquing.
 
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Weird, no improvement suggestions to customer service? ;)
Yeah, his experiences seem pretty much like the norm. Too much wrong to correct...

I am really hoping Tesla gets their s*hit together, this kind of treatment is unacceptable and arises from understaffing service centers which arises from too many cars being serviced which arises from bad or non existing quality control (both at service center level and at factory production).

I'm considering renting a Tesla because I cannot stomach the servicing headache ;)
Generally, newer cars are better. But the service situation is certainly the worst thing about owning a Tesla, except the things they can fix over the air. I had my car in for service a week or two after delivery, because I was dissatisfied with the quality of the windshield (ghosting), and the three-phase charging was limited to 16A, when it should have been 24A. After talking half a day off from work, they handed the car back with this resolution:

1. They measured the windshield and said it was within spec. Wouldn't budge. I even knew the part number of the windshield that didn't have ghosting and specifically asked for it, but they just said it was within spec.
2. They had tried charging it and it charged fine at 32A three phase. When I started arguing that 32A exceeded the specification of the on-board charger and they must have done something wrong, he just informed me that he was simply relaying the information he'd gotten from the technician.

I was so shocked that I just gave up and drove home, quite annoyed. After confirming charging being limited 16A again, and emailing them, they were able to enable 24A charging over the air, which mitigated the previous screwup, somewhat. And I recently got the windshield replaced on the insurance, because of rock chips, so now I'm quite happy with my car.

I have my first year service in march, so we'll see if they've improved. (8 week wait, BTW.) Luckily, I haven't had any real hardware issues, beside the windshield. The only thing I've told them to fix under warranty is a squeaky falconwing door. (Just a plastic panel that's rubbing up against the hinge.)
 
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Just one comment; there is a setting to reduce throttle response. I don’t remember the name.

edit: it is “chill”.

Stopped reading after realising you failed to discover sport, chill modes , RTFM and most likely more.

As the others pointed out, this mode does exist. It’s called Chill mode, and it is not “cryptic” or “hidden”. It is well documented in the owners manual, discussed all over the place online (including on tons of threads in this forum) and is very easy to find in the Controls app in the car.

Chill mode does not exist in pre-AP Teslas, though. Depending on what OP really has, that could be a consideration.

The lack of speed-limit info would IMO suggest a non-AP car at least and a P85+ more likely would be pre-AP than AP1. A December 2014 registration could be an older pre-AP car that got delayed (showroom car?) just as well as a late AP1 unicorn... It could even be a late arriving last-ditch pre-AP car in itself, European deliveries always take a couple of quarters...

And, again, pre-AP has no Chill mode. This is well documented.

Actually, it is possible you guys inadvertantly brought up/supported one of OPs points... ;) WHY do pre-AP cars not have Chill mode? There is no good reason that we know of. The only one that one could think of is Tesla didn't want to re-design the pre-AP dial for the Chill text, because, well, old cars...
 
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