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This is not a rant , this is a friendly note to future Norwegian Tesla owners.

thewallaby

Member
Jun 26, 2017
95
81
Norway
I still can't help it but think, reading @thewallaby debating with several American aliases, that there's a bit of an European vs. American things going on here too. Not just how we feel about companies. We just express and feel a bit differently about issues such as this. It is bound to be cultural, IMO.

I've known the great folks across the pond on TMC for years now and still I see more eye to eye with a newcomer like @thewallaby than with some of them whom I call online friends. :) Yet with most European folks, the opinions simply match that much better, that much quicker. There's something in the water.

I think it might be healthy for us to recognize the cultural differences. If @thewallaby seems unreasonable to you, it may be partly cultural. Equally I must admit it is partly cultural that I understand him/her and even sympathize. The OP may be totally unreasonable for all I know, but he/she is familiar to me in spirit, so I don't see him/her as unreasonable as perhaps someone else might.

Please take this as a reconciliatory message. I hope it helps smoothen some of the exchanges a bit. Just assume something is lost in translation and try to read each other positively.

Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. Appreciated.
I really do not have anything against the hard working american industry. My dream car is a 69 boss 429 mustang and we all know that that car is not perfect but it is a beauty, almost a work of art...
Like i said i like more the thump on the door than the vroom in the hood for my everyday driving car. (though i like the vroom in the exhaust too...)

With that being said and with all the things that has happened with the tesla i was still considering last night to change it to a newer model S instead of giving up so soon... maybe i truly got a lemon and should give it another shot.

Then i read some more posts and got a bit annoyed with Tesla again (maybe its the cultural thing hehe).

Never the less. I am still trying to figure it out.

PS. Funny story, my local BMW dealer contacted my today cause they have a new winter campaign... maybe he reads the forums? (joking... :p).
 

jeffro01

Active Member
Jan 30, 2013
2,701
3,163
Teller County CO
If you think i should shut up and take it as a man or go buy something else then my posts are not targeted to you. Please move to the next thread. I already tried to explain this on the start of this thread....

So then who are they targeted at? You've eliminated fanboys/girls which apparently to you means anyone who might have even the slightest of positive things to say about their Tesla experience, and now you've eliminated the "go buy something else crowd"...

Is your intention to only draw a response from someone who will enforce your own negative feedback loop? Is it validation you seek? Are you a millennial by chance?

You've come to a Tesla enthusiast forum which is largely dominated by pro-Tesla people... There are several detractors here so it's not like we don't support alternative viewpoints...

Jeff
 

thewallaby

Member
Jun 26, 2017
95
81
Norway
So then who are they targeted at? You've eliminated fanboys/girls which apparently to you means anyone who might have even the slightest of positive things to say about their Tesla experience, and now you've eliminated the "go buy something else crowd"...

Is your intention to only draw a response from someone who will enforce your own negative feedback loop? Is it validation you seek? Are you a millennial by chance?

You've come to a Tesla enthusiast forum which is largely dominated by pro-Tesla people... There are several detractors here so it's not like we don't support alternative viewpoints...

Jeff

Again with the personal insults... yes i am a 38 year old millennial. I am sorry i am not gonna justify you with an answer. I am not seeking advise as to what other brand i fit better in.
I already saw that a couple of people had constructive input, even though they didn't entirely agree with me and i thank them for that. It was towards them my post was targeted.
Have a nice evening sir.
 

AnxietyRanger

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
9,408
7,978
EU
Thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt. Appreciated.
I really do not have anything against the hard working american industry.

I don't think you have anything against Americans either.

I think there are cultural and language barriers to cross when Europeans and Americans discuss, in general, and that tends to flare on forums like this IMO. This thread seems to me a prime example.

IMO you may not see how your replies keep pushing the wrong buttons for Americans. You are aggraviting our American friends. You may think you are explaining yourself (and yes, you are from my point of view), but that's not how it goes across.

Instead your presentation is crossing barriers that do not seem to be appropriate when looked through an American prism, while from my European viewpoint they are perfectly mundane.

This is evident in some many threads on TMC. Something gets lost in the translation.

As I don't think any of us can really alter our fundamental style, what I would recommend is everyone up their positivity-o-meter when reading/interpreting each other. That might help get to the the real message better. Don't let the culture difference catch you.
 

jeffro01

Active Member
Jan 30, 2013
2,701
3,163
Teller County CO
Again with the personal insults... yes i am a 38 year old millennial. I am sorry i am not gonna justify you with an answer. I am not seeking advise as to what other brand i fit better in.
I already saw that a couple of people had constructive input, even though they didn't entirely agree with me and i thank them for that. It was towards them my post was targeted.
Have a nice evening sir.

So now asking someone if they are a millennial is considered to be an insult? Okay....

Jeff
 

gjunky

Trifecta: Solar and both cars are EVs
Mar 26, 2012
1,254
418
Scottsdale, AZ
Reading the original post, I can see why the OP would be upset. I would be too. I am sure there are items on the list that have simple answers but they could then have been answered by a Tesla person during the service visit.

There is an escalate option when you login to your Tesla account. I would certainly let Tesla know about the issues you've had with your service appointment. I know from personal experience that the service experience with Tesla can be very good. This might be an issue with your local (Norway) Tesla service centers and Tesla should be made aware of this.
 
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MarcusMaximus

Active Member
Jan 2, 2017
3,789
16,747
Los Gatos
I don't think you have anything against Americans either.

I think there are cultural and language barriers to cross when Europeans and Americans discuss, in general, and that tends to flare on forums like this IMO. This thread seems to me a prime example.

IMO you may not see how your replies keep pushing the wrong buttons for Americans. You are aggraviting our American friends. You may think you are explaining yourself (and yes, you are from my point of view), but that's not how it goes across.

Instead your presentation is crossing barriers that do not seem to be appropriate when looked through an American prism, while from my European viewpoint they are perfectly mundane.

This is evident in some many threads on TMC. Something gets lost in the translation.

As I don't think any of us can really alter our fundamental style, what I would recommend is everyone up their positivity-o-meter when reading/interpreting each other. That might help get to the the real message better. Don't let the culture difference catch you.

Take all of that and add in the fact that tone is completely lost in text-based communication and ya, that's probably pretty much it.
 
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As a Yank living in the UK, I can appreciate some of the language / cultural issues in this thread.

OP, never helps to make statements like "American quality" - which is an over generalization, like "European laziness" (thus incorrectly putting myriad cultures into one short work-week bucket) ;)

Interesting to hear the specifics about the cold weather performance of the seals. I guess this is a California-designed car (indeed the AC is much better than the heating), but surprised we haven't heard more about this from our Canadian and Northern U.S. members.
 

jbcarioca

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Feb 3, 2015
5,967
37,350
I have waited five pages of comments before expressing my opinions:
1. Most rational people can observe that Tesla service and support are inadequate everywhere that volumes have risen more quickly than they had expected. Norway, specifically, is teh poster child for a market that has chosen to buy more Tesla products than. they had ever imagined. Zero surprise that their staff are not well-enough trained, that Service facilities are vastly overcrowded and that customer service people are drowning. These are facts of life in many places around the world.
2. One can love one's Model S without dismissing valid observations. The lack of storage in the car, no coat hangers, cursory central console design, etc. are ridiculous. Obviously Tesla agrees. Check out even Mode X that does have side pockets, at least, or Model 3 that actually seems normal in that respect.
3. I have owned more than 50 cars. My Model S is the first new American car I have ever had. I love it. The assembly quality, however, reminds me of the Hyundai Pony or my beloved Honda S600. No accident, those were among the first cars built by those manufacturers. Tesla promises more automation will yield higher build quality. It needs to do so!
4. I actually love my Model S P85D+. I have two more Tesla's reserved.
5. For all their obvious flaws, Teslas are so wonderful that even tiny flaws are massively irritating.

In my opinion we need to emphasise all these negative points in order to ensure that Tesla can continue to improve more quickly than anyone ever has done before in this industry.
@thewallaby has done a service by making rational points.

Next, about chill mode. It appeared out of the blue. Then, the fact that torque is adjusted in Tesla drive wheels more than 10,000 times per second is little known. Once one drives any Tesla on snow and ice it quickly becomes apparent that Tesla torque management is a massive assistance to driving in inclement weather. The problem is really more about stopping than starting. Thus this is my winter solution: Nokian Hakkapeliitta R2 - Non-studded Tire / Nokian Tires

Lastly, the most frustrating aspect of life with Tesla is that we all see the potential and are eager to see all that potential unleashed now. We want these things now:
1. FSD,
2. Decent internet connectivity,
3. better sound system,
4. Serious S and X refresh to deliver better efficiency, better cold weather performance, more range and creature comforts.

the list goes on...

I am certainly a Tesla fanboy. Being a fanboy is not equivalent to being blind. Being what I regard as the best car in the world is nowhere near enough!
 

thewallaby

Member
Jun 26, 2017
95
81
Norway
Happy to see a more positive tone in the last e-mails. As i mentioned earlier i have nothing against american cars, sorry if it seemed like i was generalizing, it was not my intention.
Funny thing about the Chill mode is that i have been quite often 'harassing' Elon and Tesla Motors on Twitter for a mode like this (torque limiting mode) since i bought the car and now they actually put it up on all cars but mine...
Tesla for me has been a bad experience not because of the quality of the car, not because of all the issues that i found in such short time not even because i realized too little too late that my car is now dropped from any updates. Customer service experience is the worse and probably most important part, especially when you are dealing with a high maintenance 'baby' model like the model S (see earlier posts of comparing BMW vs Tesla age as companies).
Here i believe that mr.Musk should have dropped more capacity and service to compensate for the imperfections of his production line and quality design exactly because Tesla is such a new company.
But I want to see these cars mature. I saw lots of threads discussing that the 'facelift' hasn't achieved too much in that direction. I am aware that Elon is busy into filling the marked with m3s now so not much time for mS real world improvements. (other than pseudo software updates and visual facelifts, and 70% of all focus on AP upgrades... i guess that is super important for some reason i fail to see at this moment since more than 90% of the world lacks infrastructure for proper AP utilization).
I believe the logical step after 2019-2020 is to properly redo mS.
Maybe i ll be back then. As much as i have loved the car itself i am scared that next time something more serious/critical will happen i will be stuck with an inoperable car for more than 12 weeks due to lack of service capacity.
I will loose a hefty amount of money for buying and selling in such a short time but so be it.
As many people here mentioned maybe i do not belong in the Tesla mentality yet but in more traditional and experienced makers...
Thanks for the constructive inputs all. Even the negative ones. Much appreciated.
 
The facelift Model S is a proper car that feels finished and not like the 2012-2014 models. Try one and you will notice a big difference. I would say that the facelift model S is a pretty complete car even though it is missing some things. But those dont bother me and will for sure come when it arrives a update in maybe a year or so.
 
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AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,414
4,111
Phoenix, AZ
Elon Musk is the de facto head of Sales & Service now that Jon McNeil has left the company for Lyft. Here is my suggestion: Create a JPG version of your letter and tweet it to Elon Musk for all to see. Tesla will never change unless they are called out over this kind of BS. It's fine to love Tesla's mission and all of that, but at the end of the day this is your money and your interests come first before Tesla's.
 
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AmpedRealtor

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2013
6,414
4,111
Phoenix, AZ
The facelift Model S is a proper car that feels finished and not like the 2012-2014 models. Try one and you will notice a big difference. I would say that the facelift model S is a pretty complete car even though it is missing some things. But those dont bother me and will for sure come when it arrives a update in maybe a year or so.
How so? There is nothing functionally different about the interior or exterior of the "facelift" Model S. Still no door pockets, decent cupholders, coat hooks, or back seat pockets. The faux leather materials have improved somewhat, but that's about it. I've driven recent builds. They still rattle in most of the same places and the interior quality is far inferior compared to other vehicles in its price class. I see no improvement in post-facelift cars where it matters the most: Quality.
 
How so? There is nothing functionally different about the interior or exterior of the "facelift" Model S. Still no door pockets, decent cupholders, coat hooks, or back seat pockets. The faux leather materials have improved somewhat, but that's about it. I've driven recent builds. They still rattle in most of the same places and the interior quality is far inferior compared to other vehicles in its price class. I see no improvement in post-facelift cars where it matters the most: Quality.

I think it had improved in many places like efficiency, road noice and quality to name a few. Both of my facelift model S has been mostly flawless since delivery and I could not be happier. I have owned a lot of Mercedes and driven many other cars with higher quality and I see that Tesla is lacking in this category. However that is something that I can live with, and I also think many exaggerate how lower Teslas built quality is to like a Benz in the same class. This is however only from my own experiences and opinions. :)
 
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brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
8,267
6,830
Austin, TX
OP - I understand your view on customer service. I had a bad BMW service experience once with an M3. It wasn’t a big deal, but felt I was treated poorly and given a bunch of attitude over a $20 part while spending $1800 on other (overpriced) service.

Definitely didn’t consider BMW next round of purchases. Might in the future, but only if I can’t find alternatives.

Sure, i view it as irrational on my part. But it makes me feel better :)
 

Lasttoy

Active Member
Mar 24, 2017
1,664
975
St Augustine, Fl
I traveled in 20 states last summer. Hit a lot of super charger every week traveling. Have read thousands of post. There is one common tread here on earth. No 2 Teslas are the same. PERIOD. NO 2 service centers are the same. No charge is the same. I have a ver acurate log of charges, never ever the same twice.
Yes this totally new technology, fram A to Z. Yes will have growing pains in every form. They do have a lot of problems with no one in charge of fixing the complaints. One would thing that after 4 yrs Elon would have appointed a team to deal with issues.
But no, they are still in the start up mode. Sad but true.
I love my car. I pray nothing breaks. I am at 110k miles and pushing ahead fast.
 
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OP, never helps to make statements like "American quality" - which is an over generalization, like "European laziness" (thus incorrectly putting myriad cultures into one short work-week bucket) ;)

Interesting to hear the specifics about the cold weather performance of the seals. I guess this is a California-designed car (indeed the AC is much better than the heating), but surprised we haven't heard more about this from our Canadian and Northern U.S. members.

So I'm guessing perhaps "European laziness" may play a factor in the negative experiences OP had with service centers in Norway? :p :p

Note: this comes from a "lazy European" engineer who's lived in America for about 20 years now building "American quality" products and who some would characterize as a BMW and Tesla fanatic ("fanboy").
 

thewallaby

Member
Jun 26, 2017
95
81
Norway
I understand that not 2 service centers are the same but when the options are so limited (20.000+ teslas in 2 service centers..... ) then i am quite sure that the warranty/service policy of Tesla is way off of what it should be after 10 years on the market.
A small example: Tesla might be a 'new born' company comparing to the 4 giants but up until 2 years ago they literally had 1 model. 1 car. 1 set of spare parts. The stuck/faulty door handle issue is violently popular in Norway, due to ice, humidity, water and other factors. I had the same issue also. Every time i opened the drivers door the rear passenger side door would also unlock and OPEN.... called Tesla. They said : we will call you back because we do not have the replacement sensor on stock. (Blunt lie, the part is very popular and it costs 2$.... but they didnt have time to be bothered with me). 6 weeks passed i haven't heard a word from them. I give up. Literally. I mean how much can i be bothered? For the time i have it on only driver door unlock mode and i have to manually open the other doors so the passengers can get in the car. Beautiful!!! I believe the Ford T-model had the same option.
If you read about the fender bender issue i had in December. 8 weeks later today and the car is still not ready. Got a call yesterday saying that maybe next Friday. They had to order the new bumper (really?! not even a bumper on stock for their HUGE variety of 2! cars?!?) and it took 5 weeks to come from US.... (now i am laughing, did they send it with Tom Hanks coconut tree home made raft from Cast Away?) , painting and fitting that would mean ca. 8-10 weeks for a bumper...
Like how much more patient should a customer be before they start feeling like the biggest suckers in the world....
And here are some more issues if you think that i am going crazy over nothing...
The belt sensor on the back seats was going on and off every time i was braking or accelerating so they told me to keep the belt buckled all the time.... what the hell?.... like i ll ask my passengers : please put your seat belts on when you exit the vehicle. Standard procedure...
The windows would freeze stuck so they told me to keep the car inside to avoid this in very cold temperatures... yes i ll ask my boss if i can take the tesla in my office..
I have a 5 year prepaid service agreement where they are supposed to rotate the wheels but they said: 'no you have the + package so we do not rotate, we only do a 20 point check and change the wiper blades... ' for 1500USD service deal?!?!?!?! and when i told them, ok can you please change to winter tires instead of rotating the summer ones they had the nerve to charged me 250 USD for the change!!! The most tragic part is that the one pressure sensor was dead and they didn't even check it so i had to go back to replace it yet another time another day! (since they told me to pickup the car at 16:45 and 15 minutes later they were closed....)
Look, since September i have been to Tesla for service issues 6 times! When i bought the car i knew that the service is far, i even knew that Tesla service is overloaded, new and all the things we already talked about but not 12 weeks for scheduled service and 6 times in the workshop in the first 4 months!!!! And on top of that 12+ weeks to fix a bumper... come on. I ll go buy a tank next time, at least if the half shaft is loose it will still move...
And no sorry the facelift is nothing more than a face-lift. I test drove the brand new P100D and a S70 a S60 and even a model X that a colleague had before i bought my car and i did not notice anything else special than what i have in my car (besides the ugly black hole in the front - the face lift was a good decision but just way too little for a real 'upgraded' version).
Look do not get me wrong, i am not saying that other companies make only perfect cars but at least they are not asking from people 80.000 tax free dollars (in practice over 130.000 taxed USD in Norway if we are comparing apples to apples) for a car without any extra equipment (that is what the cheapest 70D starts from in Norway atm) that needs standard things like a place to put my excessive tons of garbage (yes sir it is a 5 door hatchback trunk family saloon car , not a 2 seat Porsche or Ferrari and even those have pockets for putting a pen, a cola can or your wallet) and a service department that lacks basic things like decent treatment of their customers...
I have cancelled my m3 reservation today. Mostly because i got a mail 2 weeks ago that said that delivery will be delayed to early 2019, thank you for your patience. Well i have no more patience. I do not see any light in the tunnel. I have even tried to get to Elon on twitter of this service capacity issue several times but he is too busy sending 8 year old cars to space creating more space junk... I am quite sure if he listens to me it will be something like : 'yea we will give better service to all owner that have facelift cars or later'' much like i was ranting for the chill mode and now that it is on it works only on 2015+ cars...
I mean enough is enough at some point. Like i said, maybe i got the most early Monday, lemon car there is and i do not care about it, but I do care about a so awful customer service that makes you feel like 'too late sucker, now we got your money'.
Unfortunately i do not have more options to check your 'no 2 service centers are alike' theory. Cause we literally have only 2 service centers here....
 
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thewallaby

Member
Jun 26, 2017
95
81
Norway
So I'm guessing perhaps "European laziness" may play a factor in the negative experiences OP had with service centers in Norway? :p :p

Note: this comes from a "lazy European" engineer who's lived in America for about 20 years now building "American quality" products and who some would characterize as a BMW and Tesla fanatic ("fanboy").

Well at least someone moved to the US and is still living the dream :p:D
In all seriousness though I do not think that the issues are because of laziness. It's just plainly and bluntly under staffing policy. 2 centers for 20.000+ cars in the Oslo area is a joke. Pretty simple : we do not REALLY care what happens after you buy the car. Or maybe we care some but you will have to wait. We might be able to fix your tiny issue right before you decide to sell your car again...

Also Norway has the largest network of superchargers per million inhabitants. (6.3 vs 1.2 in the US or 2.4 in Sweden) Why? Because it is good advertise and Musk got a good charging power deal because of the clean and 'free' water turbine power Norway produces 80% of the year round. But fixing the cars he is selling with 5 and 8 years warranty? No, not a priority. 14 weeks for a door sensor. 12 weeks for a door handle LED light. 10+ weeks for a new bumper.... Maybe with these times people will stop complaining all together, seeing how pointless it is...

At the company i work these number of delivery time and customer service satisfaction would mean closing down or at least firing several executives and giving some serious focus on their needing areas.
 

thewallaby

Member
Jun 26, 2017
95
81
Norway
Elon Musk is the de facto head of Sales & Service now that Jon McNeil has left the company for Lyft. Here is my suggestion: Create a JPG version of your letter and tweet it to Elon Musk for all to see. Tesla will never change unless they are called out over this kind of BS. It's fine to love Tesla's mission and all of that, but at the end of the day this is your money and your interests come first before Tesla's.
Yeah i might as well... but you know i do not see the point anymore. Space X and m3 is the biggest prio now. Noone even cares about earlier than 2015 model S owners as far as i gather from the general info and lately developments.
Or maybe you mean, buy a new 2017 P100D and then complain to Musk? Yeah. On my way. :D:D:D
 

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