This is why an electric car is better that people don't seem to talk about much.

[Flightgamer]

You all know the typical arguments back and forth about ICE vs electric.
As a retired consultant (environmental scientist) for over 30 years. Can I add a thing to the discussion? Or at least stress something?
Let's say you accept the whole argument with someone that electric cars pollute the same (they don't) because the pollution has just moved from the car to the power plant. One of the biggest advantages that goes unsaid is that instead of the emissions occurring at millions of exhaust pipes (non-point source) the emissions are now at one point source (the power plant). It is much, much easier to regulate the power plant than to make sure every car out there is up to date and isn't being modified by the owner. Or classic cars that are exempt. I didn't even buy a Tesla to save the environment (I just like it) but I wish this would come up more in the discussion. The comparison is not even close. Not remotely. Thanks for letting me vent.

 

[Exelion]

And not to mention the power plant, due to massive scale, is a lot more efficient at generating power than any ICE engine!

 

[zpaul]

The other argument is recycling batteries or using rare metals.
I don't really care. I bought Tesla for technology, to try something new, save a bit on fueling up and maintenance.
Stealership deliberately ruined my Injectors when I refused to clean them for $250. There was no need to, no hesitation no jerking. But this vile people did it and literally after riding it for 15 mile I could start it. Result - replacing ALL injectors.
So as another point for Tesla not polluting - less spare parts, oil changes, engine filters, injector and so on.

 

[DGMVW]

You all know the typical arguments back and forth about ICE vs electric.
As a retired consultant (environmental scientist) for over 30 years. Can I add a thing to the discussion? Or at least stress something?
Let's say you accept the whole argument with someone that electric cars pollute the same (they don't) because the pollution has just moved from the car to the power plant. One of the biggest advantages that goes unsaid is that instead of the emissions occurring at millions of exhaust pipes (non-point source) the emissions are now at one point source (the power plant). It is much, much easier to regulate the power plant than to make sure every car out there is up to date and isn't being modified by the owner. Or classic cars that are exempt. I didn't even buy a Tesla to save the environment (I just like it) but I wish this would come up more in the discussion. The comparison is not even close. Not remotely. Thanks for letting me vent.

I tell people this all the time...I don't think the auto industry (and oil) want anyone to know all of the good things electric cars actually do.

 

[Mike_TV]

To add to this...the batteries or cells in a Tesla can be repurposed for renewable power storage needs when they've reach end of life in the car. After that, they can be recycled. There are some interesting companies doing battery recycling today like Redwood Materials.

 

[C-Bus Y]

Electric F-150 is the tipping point. This digs deep, top selling vehicle/truck. 5 years from now you will likely not hear arguments about how electric vehicles are worse for the environment when electric F150’s are everywhere.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

You all know the typical arguments back and forth about ICE vs electric.
As a retired consultant (environmental scientist) for over 30 years. Can I add a thing to the discussion? Or at least stress something?
Let's say you accept the whole argument with someone that electric cars pollute the same (they don't) because the pollution has just moved from the car to the power plant. One of the biggest advantages that goes unsaid is that instead of the emissions occurring at millions of exhaust pipes (non-point source) the emissions are now at one point source (the power plant). It is much, much easier to regulate the power plant than to make sure every car out there is up to date and isn't being modified by the owner. Or classic cars that are exempt. I didn't even buy a Tesla to save the environment (I just like it) but I wish this would come up more in the discussion. The comparison is not even close. Not remotely. Thanks for letting me vent.

Suggested new thread title:

Why We and Our Planet Are So Hopelessly Screwed.​

My brain explodes as I read these two lines within seconds of each other:

As a retired consultant (environmental scientist) for over 30 years.

Followed by:

I didn't even buy a Tesla to save the environment (I just like it) . . .

Perhaps the OP has been retired from that "environmental scientist" position for too long to realize the threat posed by over a century of unchecked GHG dumping?

Check out the Dashboard here for a refresher:

Climate.gov Home

Science & information for a climate-smart nation

climate.gov

And:

Climate Change

NASA is a global leader in studying Earth’s changing climate.

climate.nasa.gov

I don't know how Greta keeps her sanity in the face of such a constant barrage of insanity by people that should know better:

Greta Thunberg docuseries amplifies her climate change fight

The three-episode docuseries, a PBS and BBC Studios co-production, follows the rock star activist as she visits people and places that have been distinctly affected by the heating of the earth.

www.pbs.org

 

[Richh001]

You all know the typical arguments back and forth about ICE vs electric.
As a retired consultant (environmental scientist) for over 30 years. Can I add a thing to the discussion? Or at least stress something?
Let's say you accept the whole argument with someone that electric cars pollute the same (they don't) because the pollution has just moved from the car to the power plant. One of the biggest advantages that goes unsaid is that instead of the emissions occurring at millions of exhaust pipes (non-point source) the emissions are now at one point source (the power plant). It is much, much easier to regulate the power plant than to make sure every car out there is up to date and isn't being modified by the owner. Or classic cars that are exempt. I didn't even buy a Tesla to save the environment (I just like it) but I wish this would come up more in the discussion. The comparison is not even close. Not remotely. Thanks for letting me vent.

Another positive aspect of EV's vs. ICE vehicles that I have never seen discussed much is the benefit of zero emission vehicles in dense urban areas that are prone to high pollution levels due to weather patterns, geography, and the concentration of point and mobile emission sources. Switching to EV's in these areas may not reduce net pollution on a global basis but it might make breathing in major cities a little easier.

 

[tashtibet]

I didn't even buy a Tesla to save the environment (I just like it): not me I bought Tesla (before that I'd Nissan Leaf) for the sake of environment. I don't know why people don't understand environment-they make it sound like it's somewhere out there. If one had breakfast in the morning: bread, bagel, tea, coffee etc -these are the products of environment. Simply put if one is breathing-one's breathing in & out air or environment.

 

[Fidalgo]

Not burning fossil fuels - and driving by gas stations - is one of the most satisfying things about owning a Tesla. Where I live, much of the electricity come from hydro and wind. And I’ve seen tangible evidence of global warming all over the world, including significant glacial retreat in my local Cascade Mountains. EVs are a huge step in the right direction.

 

[JustinDielmann]

Suggested new thread title:

Why We and Our Planet Are So Hopelessly Screwed.​

My brain explodes as I read these two lines within seconds of each other:

As a retired consultant (environmental scientist) for over 30 years.

Followed by:

I didn't even buy a Tesla to save the environment (I just like it) . . .

Perhaps the OP has been retired from that "environmental scientist" position for too long to realize the threat posed by over a century of unchecked GHG dumping?

Check out the Dashboard here for a refresher:

Climate.gov Home

Science & information for a climate-smart nation

climate.gov

And:

Climate Change

NASA is a global leader in studying Earth’s changing climate.

climate.nasa.gov

I don't know how Greta keeps her sanity in the face of such a constant barrage of insanity by people that should know better:

Greta Thunberg docuseries amplifies her climate change fight

The three-episode docuseries, a PBS and BBC Studios co-production, follows the rock star activist as she visits people and places that have been distinctly affected by the heating of the earth.

www.pbs.org

I am honestly seeking understanding of what you hoped to gain through this post?

Was it just a rant about how imperative the climate crisis is? If so then, I am unconcerned.

Did you mean to change the behavior of someone? If so then I am not sure how as your post does nothing but insult another poster and assert the urgency of the climate crisis.

Did you hope to educate an environmental scientist of the dangers of climate change? If so then I doubt any of this information is in any way new to most anyone driving a Tesla let alone to an environmental scientist.

Inflammatory posts that attack and insult someone who ostensibly agrees with you won't help your cause, and if I am being completely honest, purchasing a consumer vehicle of any kind including a Tesla is just about the worst thing you can do for the climate.

Unfortunately, many of us live in places without robust public transit where populations are widely distributed, and living without a consumer vehicle is not feasible. Better more efficient vehicles will be part of the solution, but less people driving is 1000% required as well. If you primary motive is climate change, then you need to reduce the amount you drive/stop driving at all.

Tesla makes wonderful vehicles that are a pleasure to drive even when compared to the nicest cars in the world. In order, for them to get wide spread adoption they have to have appeal outside of climate activists like yourself.

If anything another user pointing out that their primary reason for buying a Tesla was not the environment should give you hope that some of the driving enthusiasts and commuters who do not think about climate change at all will incidentally reduce their emissions.

The war against climate change will be won at least in part by making solutions to that problem that are competitive and desirable in the wider market. Shouting at people that the world is on fire will only go so far. Offering them solutions which are also desirable will go a lot further.

Insulting environmental scientists on the internet because they do not put the emphasis on the issue that you think it needs will do nothing productive. This statement is only more true when that same environmental scientist is pointing out one of the stronger arguments in favor of reducing our dependence on ICE vehicles.

I am really not aiming for an argument with you, but rather to hopefully convince you that your heart may be in the right place even if your tactics are counter productive.

 

[Pianewman]

Another positive aspect of EV's vs. ICE vehicles that I have never seen discussed much is the benefit of zero emission vehicles in dense urban areas that are prone to high pollution levels due to weather patterns, geography, and the concentration of point and mobile emission sources. Switching to EV's in these areas may not reduce net pollution on a global basis but it might make breathing in major cities a little easier.

Large urban areas have been aware of this for decades, and are quick to move rapid surface transit (buses/trollies) to electric. Many are doing the same for private vehicles.
You're right, thought, that it isn't often talked about in general EV vs. ICE conversation. Here in west Fort Worth, on the edge of the wide open rural TX, moving toward EVs is a slow process, frequently blocked out by the soot of coal-rollers.

 

[techlogik]

It's a shame all the environmental effect. Where is the nickel and battery components mined??? US, overseas? By giant diesel guzzling machines. Then they are shipped/transported often to overseas via a giant container ship, which burns more fuel than the equivalent of 10K cars use in emmissions/fuel in their lifetime on a single 1 way crossing. Then the battery gets made and shipped back to the plants wherever they might be, EU/US/Asian or wherever...by another container ship...trucked to the plants?!?!

IDK...maybe I don't know Tesla's complete supply chain...but would be real interested to track the complete journey and what it takes to mine/ship/manufacture/ship again/truck again...to the plant for install into the car...then ship the car via big truck to your local dealer this giant battery they put in these cars?!?! ROFL

Let's not kid ourselves here....

 

[Earl]

It's a shame all the environmental effect. Where is the nickel and battery components mined??? US, overseas? By giant diesel guzzling machines. Then they are shipped/transported often to overseas via a giant container ship, which burns more fuel than the equivalent of 10K cars use in emmissions/fuel in their lifetime on a single 1 way crossing. Then the battery gets made and shipped back to the plants wherever they might be, EU/US/Asian or wherever...by another container ship...trucked to the plants?!?!

IDK...maybe I don't know Tesla's complete supply chain...but would be real interested to track the complete journey and what it takes to mine/ship/manufacture/ship again/truck again...to the plant for install into the car...then ship the car via big truck to your local dealer this giant battery they put in these cars?!?! ROFL

Let's not kid ourselves here....

All you're saying is that we are not done, just because we drive an EV. There is still work to be done but it won't involve fighting wars to get access to oil, shipping it across the world, hauling in diesel trucks, then spitting 3/4 of it out the tailpipe into the atmosphere.
EVs are better and put us on a trajectory toward sustainability.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Just the cleaner urban air alone is enough of a reason to switch to EVs. I don't think people realize how bad the aggregate health effects are in breathing all of the particulates, including many toxic heavy metals, that ICE engines give off.

 

[Flightgamer]

Another positive aspect of EV's vs. ICE vehicles that I have never seen discussed much is the benefit of zero emission vehicles in dense urban areas that are prone to high pollution levels due to weather patterns, geography, and the concentration of point and mobile emission sources. Switching to EV's in these areas may not reduce net pollution on a global basis but it might make breathing in major cities a little easier.

Well said. It is always valuable to shift the emissions to a location much more manageable and remote.

 

[Flightgamer]

The war against climate change will be won at least in part by making solutions to that problem that are competitive and desirable in the wider market.

This is what an environmental consultant strives to do on his/her best day. Improve a dirty industrial process that is driven by the market with a cleaner process (and if everything goes right, eliminates the dirty process). At the end of the day you can say things are measurably better for what you did, even if only by just a little. If everyone does that, rather than just talking about it, we might just get somewhere good.

 

[Flightgamer]

Just the cleaner urban air alone is enough of a reason to switch to EVs. I don't think people realize how bad the aggregate health effects are in breathing all of the particulates, including many toxic heavy metals, that ICE engines give off.

I grew up in southern CA in the 70s when it hurt your lungs to jog. I thought about that driving the new car home.

 

[Cosmacelf]

I grew up in southern CA in the 70s when it hurt your lungs to jog. I thought about that driving the new car home.

Exactly. Just because there is less lead in the gasoline doesn’t mean it is clean.

 

[cucubits]

Large urban areas have been aware of this for decades, and are quick to move rapid surface transit (buses/trollies) to electric. Many are doing the same for private vehicles.
You're right, thought, that it isn't often talked about in general EV vs. ICE conversation. Here in west Fort Worth, on the edge of the wide open rural TX, moving toward EVs is a slow process, frequently blocked out by the soot of coal-rollers.

Very true. I always get sad/a bit disgusted when I keep seeing so many trucks on the highways around here.
90% of them don't haul anything and there's just the driver (100% of them doing something on their phone while driving). What can I say, texas in general leaves a very sour taste with me... it's like they love living in past.

On a happier note, in 2 years since I got my Model S, I've been charging it only at home and my provider says I have 100% solar energy so at least I'm doing a tiny part...